Kraeuterbutter

for fast charging batteries..

they are not hear in 5 or 10years..
they are already here for 1 year now !
iam a rc-heli-pilot, and we use this kind of batts for 1 year now..

charging:
i normaly charge with 4C (= 4times the current than the capacity of the battery)
charged this way, the cells are full after around 14-16min

friends are using homebuild charger with up to 10-11C charging current.
they fill the batteries up to 90% of there capacity in 4min 30sec. !

a batterypack for a e-bike (36V, 10Ah) would need about
1680Watt of Power when you want to charge it in 15min
with the looses of the charger (charger-efficience) let us say: less than 2000Watt


2000Watt -> there are hairdryers and vacuum cleaners with that power
so it should work with any 230V/110V supply

i think after a 20+ miles ride a stop of 14min would be ok..
charging only 5min would still be enough to go for some further 10miles

so: the batteries are here, and we use them..
another benefit: they are VERY robust (electrically)
we have managed to get 1000cycles out of this batteries, at high charge-conditions..
at same conditions (but lower charge-current) out
NiMh cells seldom get over 200cycles, more like 100-150cycles
and Lipos also see seldom the 200cycles mark...

at same condition we can make OVER 1000cycles (with an 20% capacity loose) with this A123 Fepo4 cells (tested !!, not only advertisment from manufactor)

so fast charging is not a unfullfilled wish.. its already here and buyable by everyone since 1 year

for lifetime: the manufactor (we are not able to test THAT) says: batterylife/calenderlife:
more than 10years
(batterymanufactor say 4-6years for most NiMh and 2-3years for LiPos)

Kraeuterbutter

and for driving bikes in cities..
i have a nice idea..

here in vienna 3 years ago the was a action: over 1000bikes were place all over the city by the city-government, for free use
resüme: hundrets of bikes were stolen, not returend

so they modified it:
every bike is no "closed" and logged by an mechanism..
when you want to use a bike, you have to register once with your bank-card on an terminal.
so they know who you are.. this costs 1 Euro..

driving the bike is free for 1 hour
costs 1 euro for 2 hours
costs 2 euro for 3 hours
...
..

when you have finished driving, you bring it to a bike-station (there are duzzonds all over the city), logg the bike again and you are logged out of the system
when your time is under 1 hour you pay nothing, otherwise its taken from your bank-card/creditcard

so: said this - it works great
no stolen/not returened bikes anymore..
my girlfriend drives to here work (~30min) every day for free
and home again

now my idea:
the bikes could all be electric !!
most people drive less than an our..
whent he bike is returend, and logged by the mechanism, it should be automatically connected to a charger
so when the next user comes (maybe 20min later) the bike is already recharged again
assuming that most people drive maybe 3-5miles and not more at once, the bike should be recharged in some few minutes..

also: when you rent a bike the computer should tell you which bike is fully charged, or for how many miles each bike is cabable (with current charge-state) to go..
when i only want to go 5miles to work, i don´t need a fully charged bike for example..

this would be cool !
i think many people would use the bikes even more (and for longer distances)

another thing: i would wish, that parking-space in vienna would be cost-free for electric cars..
and/or at least: at parking slots were you have to pay same price as for normal car, but with an electric-plug to charge your car for free !

in vienna parking a car costs over 200euro a month

Kraeuterbutter

last:
for the idea of bike were the motor uses the gears of the bike
(like https://www.cyclone-usa.com/ )

there is also already such a bike..
its maybe the most advanced out there (in my eyes) ?!?

the bikes from biketec in swizzerland

here a link to the catalog:
https://www.biketec.ch/m/mandanten/14...tory23456.html
(unfortunatly a "flash-catalog"
you can jump through the catalog with the cursor buttons on the button or with "inhaltsverzeichnis" on and selecting directly


full suspension biketec FLYER F8...

the cool thing on the biketec flyer:
1.) it uses a direct-drivemotor.. the motor is integreated in the pedals, about diameter of the big gear..
for that the motor works noiceless, not like the cyclone-usa with uses a gearbox (= noise)
2.) a electronics measures the power you pedal (not only the rpms like most of the e-bikes do (its cheap), but the real torque you pedal is measured).. it works very smoothlee, better than at any other bikes on the market and is very intuive to use
3.) of course - its a great hill-climber..

you can get for exmple the Flyer F8 with
7 gears, 14, 21 or 27gears or even with the 14gears rolof-speedhub gear

i think its in the moment one of the best e-bikes out there..
has also won a lot of tests..


here detailed pic of the T-series:
https://www.biketec.ch/m/mandanten/14...rie_Herren.jpg

EbikeHawaii

Kokam lipo batteries have taken RC abuse for a few years with good results.Some ebikers have also had great results with them as well as record setting electric battery cars.Yes the technology IS here NOW! It might take some volume pruchase power to get the ebike packs made at a much better price.1000 Kokam packs would cost about one half the price per watt hour than RC packs right now. Before any ebike manufacture gets to the point of including larger lipo packs with a complete ebike they would need to make lighter more efficient motors to get the best use of these lipo batteries.Otherwise wasting battery power would be a shame in the pocket book.I discussed this with Michale Jones ( the founder of Phoenix Motorcars) at a meeting in Lahaina Yacht Club a few years ago about him getting rid of his heavy Advanced DC motors and going brushless as well as going with Kokams. Looks like he did just that.
https://www.kokam.com/english/custom/...sch=&key=&no=1

Allen

Panasonic makes an ebike that allows the motor to use the gears as well. Giant used Panasonic's technology on their Lite/Twist models.
https://www.panabyc.co.jp/en/product_du.htm
https://www.electricvehiclesnw.com/main/lite.htm
https://www.bikeforums.net/utility-cycling/288973-my-morgan-now-clydesdale.html
The disadvantage of the Panasonic system is the bike frame has to be designed around the motor unit.

EbikeHawaii

A geard motor system could be hung on the back axle like a Currie USPD and sold as a kit but the right way to do it with a protected motor a complete ebike would be be a much better package.All ebike kits have some downfalls.

Skyway6

while it is not an electric bike... this looks very interesting

https://www.revopower.com/

but i would love to see a fuel cell powered bike some day soon.

EbikeHawaii

Hydrogen takes more power to produce than gasoline or batteries.Its a false economy.

Skyway6

i agree i read that hydrogen while clean burning takes lots of energy to produce.
i was thinking more along the lines of a ethanol based fuel cell

https://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/id30.html

Lock

A "recharge" for a pack like this could be done in less than a minute... by swapping the pack.
tks
Lock
Human-electric hybrid pedestrian

Lock

Can't take a gas vehicle on public transit. Electrifying two wheels means that the energy can come from many sources - nuclear and coal and natural gas, but also hydro and wind and solar...

Many options, and some much cleaner than gas or food for energy. Electrics are odor-free too, with no tailpipe emissions leaking directly into roadways. Zero liquids to either evaporate up your nose or drip on to pavements, get washed into drinking water, then down your throat. Electrics are generally quieter than gas engines?

I am only familiar with personal electric vehicles with motors rated at well less than one horsepower. This is quite a bit less power than most small gas engines...

tks

Lock
Human-electric hybrid pedestrian

Lock

Earlier, someone mentioned the Protanium® lithium polymer batt pack supplied by Schwinn?

A pic from the Protanium site to sort-of illustrate the diff's between a bike that is pedal-only and one with assist:

EbikeHawaii

"I'd like to see a bike with bottom bracket based motor. Something like optibike, but nothing as fancy and more regular looking. With a BB motor, the motor is smaller and lighter (but a little noisier because of the internal gearing), center of gravity is low, you can use normal wheels for both front and back, and the motor will always be operating at peak efficiency because you can use your bike's regular gears. "


https://video.google.com/videoplay?do...65780878321081

krushnoi

Optibike is like 7 grand, isn't ebikehawaii setup like a few hundred dollars, i'd go for the older setup everytime in that case. Use the $6,500 savings for some expensive batteries..

Lowell_

While Optibike certainly charges a premium for the power system, on a bicycle component level it's not even comparable to ebikehawaii's setup.
https://www.optibike.com/%20%20index....d=44&Itemid=24

Perhaps ebikehawaii can give an exact cost breakdown of his bike for comparison. Another thing to keep in mind is I don't think all the parts can be bought for his bike, but I'm sure he can explain what's involved in the construction.

Zeuser

Hell yeah!

The "Hydrogen economy" is just to maintain a similar type of system as the current gasoline industry where the same companies will simply sell you another fuel.

We're better off by redirecting research money towards better electrical systems rather than wasting it on hydrogen.

I still believe that if we really wanted to, we'd already have a very functional electric car that could meet all our needs.

Zeuser

WTF? 15 minutes rest when you have only 400M (1/4 mile) to go? I realize it's uphill but just finish the race and then rest for a few hours afterwards.

Lowell_

So that's what happened to Evercel! Thanks for the info.

EbikeHawaii

Info from liers that chase me around the forums will not help anything.

Robbie Hatfield

If you yourself were not a liar Randy, why would you need to change forums so often?

Robbie

EbikeHawaii

For calling people like you names you deserve and when that happens no one will get anymore productive information.

Robbie Hatfield

I don't understand why you think I deserve to be called names? I'm not calling you names? I'm only asking that you be consistent and accurate when you make claims. Does this make me a bad person?


Robbie

genec

Ah, the Flux capacitor eh?

Lock

Future of ebikes... OK, lessee...
Design priorities are *not* speed and distance, but SAFETY, COMFORT, PRACTICALITY and RELIABILITY.

Get rid of the pedals, the chains, the sprockets and gears, and the seat, and you get something like this:

Make the wheels smaller and you get a form factor that looks something like this:

In other words, a vehicle that is a couple of feet shorter overall than the Victorian pedal bike, but with the same wheel base.
Make it light weight (less than 50lbs) and a fold-up. Fits in a bag. Flies as luggage. Parks in a closet. Only two moving parts (the wheels.)
Put the lithium in the deck, and make it swapable. Hub motor in the front wheel.
Super reliable. No greasy bits. Tires that don't get flats and smooth pavements.
Kick scoots feature half as many injuries as pedal bikes and those injuries are less severe.

Some will say this is not a "bicycle" (Latin isn't that? For "two wheels", not "two pedals"?) `cause it doesn't have pedals. Go argue with von Drais.


tks

Lock
Alive, and Kickin', in the T-Dot.

krushnoi

Unfortunately the law usually states bicycles must have useable pedals (as well as electric bikes) good luck getting these things legalized on streets, though it seems like there's no reason why they shouldn't since people jog and walk along streets.