zabuza13

I heard that there was going to be a li-ion battery for the izip trailz and mountain trailz does anyone know when thats going to come out if someone could let me know if this is true and when it's going to come out
or if its not true thx

ecowheelz

THIS IS TRUE... there will be a Li-Ion upgrade battery pack for all RMB (rear-mounted battery) IZIP / EZIP models. I've heard they'll be available mid to end of April - but haven't recieved an exact date or price yet. When they do become available, we'll have them on our website along with many other dealers. I'm guessing they'll retail for $400-$500 - but not sure yet...

Pretty excited to get these upgrade batteries - there's been a lot of interest!

zabuza13

thank you very much

vermontcathy

This is good to read since I have a Currie E-Zip Mountain trailz. At first, the SLA battery would get me 14 miles to work (I did a lot of pedaling work - I used the battery mostly just to help me on the hills), then I'd charge it at work for the ride home. But I've since learned that SLA batteries don't like to be drained that deep, and the battery has been getting worse and worse. One option would be to have 2 batteries and flip to the 2nd one half way through the trip. But that would add weight, and then I'd have to bring 2 batteries inside to charge. Also, I'd probably have to replace the cells in the one battery I already have, since it is already a bit damaged. So I'd be looking at $130 to get a second currie battery (to get the housing that locks into the rack) plus less ($40?) for replacement cells for what I have.

I had thought that upgrading the bike to Li-Ion batteries myself wouldn't cost that much - I didn't realize how much they cost... Plus... I'd have to buy a new charger, right? And what else? a new controller? So am I correct in (now) assuming that this would cost more than if Curry offers an upgrade for $400-$500?

So then I have to decide if this would be worth it, vs. getting a second SLA battery....

Sorry if my questions are dumb... I'm new to all this.

Cathy

ecowheelz

UPDATE: The Li-Ion upgrade pack will be available in mid to end of April. Retail price is $499. I will update this post when they arrive at our shop...

vermontcathy

Wow, that's a lot. My alternatives are to just buy a 2nd SLA battery and live with flipping the switch to the 2nd one halfway to work so as not to drain them down (and the added weight, and the inconvenience of having to bring 2 batteries inside to charge)... or, I could buy a whole new bike - eCo Wheelz has the EG Koyoto for $929 and I could probably sell my ezip for $200, for a net cost of $729. This may be a better deal than buying a better battery for the heavy, lower quality ezip for $500....

ecowheelz

There are a couple advantages to upgrading to the Li-Ion battery pack:

1.) You mentioned weight. Obviously, this makes the bike lighter and easier to handle. It also makes it easier to pedal (with no power), it will extend your range and it will extend the overall life of your bike since the lower weight is easier on the mechanical components (ie: motor, brakes, tires, etc.)

2.) The Li-Ion might cost 3 times the amount of the lead acid replacement, but it will last 3 to 4 times as long. A lead acid battery will typically last 300-400 charges - while the Li-Ion will last 1000-1200 charges. In the long run, you'll pay about the same (if not less) by choosing Li-Ion.

You mentioned the EG Kyoto - which is a nicely priced Li-Ion bike. But this bike includes a lower quality Lithium Manganese (LiMnO2) battery vs. Lithium Phosphate (LiFePo4). Both are "Li-Ion", but the phospate version will last 1000-1200 charges vs. 600-800 charges. ALSO, the EG Kyoto is slightly under-powered when compared to the EZIP. The EG is nice, but it will definiely be cheaper to upgrade if you're happy with the overall performance of your EZIP...

vermontcathy

Jeremy - Thank you very much for all your help on this. It's all very confusing to me, so it's nice to have an "insider" explain it. I didn't know there were different kinds of lithium ion batteries, but I have heard of "LiFePo" being the best. I've got some big hills here, so I definitely don't want "underpowered" (as you described the kyoto). The hills aren't long, but they are steep (typical up & down & up & down, NOT all uphill one way, all downhill the way back). On one hill, I've gotten to 34 mph on the downhill, just to give you an idea.

In general, I'm happy with the ezip other than the battery getting worse. I was just thinking if I could get a bike that was better in all ways than the ezip, for just a little more, I would, but the battery/motor being able to do a good job is more important than a prettier or lighter bike (because, it seems you're saying the better LiFePo battery would more than compensate for the eZip being heaver than the Kyoto?).

Thanks again.

Cathy

crackerdog

Ecowheelz didn't mention that SLA batteries lose more and more 'power' as they discharge and age so the bike goes slower and the power doesn't last as long. Li batteries tend to stay strong until they quit so you have about the same power throughout. I put up with my old SLA batteries but they couldn't pull up the hills as much and they didn't give me the mileage but it was so gradual that I hardly noticed until I switched to LiFePO batteries and then remembered how great it was when the SLAs were new. The SLAs on my ebike only lasted a year but my LiFepo batteries are a year old and no loss in power, speed or distance. A good deal if you can afford the intial cash outlay. Of course, all batteries vary in quality but my LiFepo are not DeWalt's but are in the middle range of quality.

wasp

hello Cathy

how far are you traveling each day ?
the lifep04 bats are nice but still pretty pricey
there are cheaper ways if you don't mind a little tinkering
i originally had a izip and really liked the hillclimbing ability but wanted better bats
and more speed 24volts to 36 but adding another 12 12 ah 10 pound battery
wasn't going to cut it so i replaced the 2 original 12volt bats at 10lbs each with

2 lithium bats from canadiantire yardworks bats...fit in the case exactly where the lead 12v were
long story short my bike now climbed way harder and will hit 40 on the flats

less weight 3.3 lbs each bat v 10lbs for lead
this mod really woke my bike up
just thought i'd mention this if your interested
all in 300 or less for 2x bats and charger

vermontcathy

I am going 14 miles each way, and it is hilly. One end is not particularly higher than the other, but it is quite hilly in between. It's Vermont. On the up side, I weigh 128 and I'm willing to do work pedaling. I am willing to do a little tinkering, but not a lot. If the new Currie LiFePo batteries are "plug & play" (no tinkering required) and have some sort of warranty, that's worth something to me. But I'll keep your option in mind. Did you have to mod the charger, or did it come with the same plug that is on the Currie case? Nothing else on the bike has to be changed? (controller or something?). Could you give me a link to the exact battery and charger you bought?

Cathy

lildeph

Ur lit-ion batteries fit perfectly in the currie case? Did u have to cut or do any mods to make it work?

Crosshair

So this battery "upgrade" for the Trailz will probably be the same battery setup for the new "Izip Via Rapido" that will also be out soon.

Men's Via Rapido
https://www.currietech.com/currie-tec...ctric-bike.php

Women's Via Rapido
https://www.currietech.com/currie-tec...ctric-bike.php


This bike is only 52 lbs but the range is still only 15 to 22 miles. I don't think they will sell a battery upgrade that will be better than this more expensive model.

.

ecowheelz

Not sure what the ratings on the new Li-Ion upgrade pack will be, but I think it's only a 24V/10AH battery (just like the current SLA), so the range might be a little better - but not by much. The big advantages are the lower weight and longer life.

As far as I know, the Via Rapido has a completely different set-up. It has a horizontally mounted Li-Ion battery pack vs. the side-mounted battery on the Trailz and others. The replacement will also be side-mounted and will "plug-in" just like the old battery...

crackerdog

If the Li battery is rated at the same amphour, then the Li should give you about 25% better range because of the perket(?) effect of SLA batteries.

vermontcathy

Although they are the same amp-hours, with SLAs, you aren't supposed to run them down below about 40% without hurting the battery, right? So there is juice there that you can't use. But with the Li-Ion, you'll be able to use all the juice without hurting the battery, right? It's important for me because the SLA was fine for my commute at first, until the battery degraded because I was running it so far down.

I'm eagerly waiting for this battery!

cerewa

VermontCathy - it's true, your SLAs won't last long if you run them below 40% often, AND usually it's a lot more than 25% of the energy that's lost to the Peukert Effect.

Lithium batteries last longer, but they are also somewhat better off if you rarely discharge past 40%.

vermontcathy

any more word on a Li-Ion battery for the ezip/izip?

Crosshair

It should be available this month according to this other website - https://www.electric-bikes.com/bikes/kits.html#Currie

It will sell for about $800 with a brushless front hub motor. Here is a flyer - https://www.electric-bikes.com/bikes/currie-kit-LFP.pdf


.

vermontcathy

Those are conversion kits. I heard you'd be able to buy just the Li-Ion battery and pop it onto an ezip that you already have. I gave up waiting and decided to buy a SLA conversion kit for my regular bike and just use 2 batteries. The weight saving from using a good regular bike instead of the heavy ezip frame should make up for the extra weight of lugging 2 batteries.

The website you listed says the SLA kit has a 400w motor but Currie's site says 450. I hope it's 450 because I want the same thing I have on the ezip. I'm told lower wattage will be underpowered on the hills I have to climb. I'm also suprised that although the motor and battery in the kit are the same as the motor and battery on the ezip, it says the kit has a range of 10 - 15 or More Miles, whereas they say the ezip has a "Maximum range of 15 - 22 Miles". Maybe they're just being more realistic? I hope I'm not making a mistake getting this kit... I just felt that the ezip was already too heavy with one battery, and my Trek bike is better quality.

donob08

Cathy
I agree the eZip is too heavy. I've had mine a year and 1760 miles. I had purchased a second battery pack, my commute is often 20+ miles one way. Second pack = 17# heavier. Ugh. One of my packs was looking tired (after the fact I found a cold solder joint hidden inside shrink wrap lead to fuse) so I bought a Ping (Chinese) LiFePO4 pack 24V, 15 AH (50% more energy). It was pricey. $329. But it is great. I got it to fit in the rack mount case. I'm pretty happy. LiFePO is 7# instead of 14# for Lead Acid. And for most days I just carry one pack, because of extra energy. That's 24# less to move.
I've considered moving the stuff from my eZip: motor, wheel, rack and throttle to my better bike. That's basically what the kit is. It would just require drilling one hole in the motor mount plate and making some brackets like those that come with the kit. The "brackets" are just bent up sheet metal. That's an extra $399 in my pocket (by Currie web price for kit).
Don

vermontcathy

Well I guess the idea of a Li-ion battery to pop onto an eZip is up in smoke, since I've seen nothing about this. I've had quite a spring in the ebike department. I thought I'd share. First, I owned an ezip from last year. But the one SLA battery was getting drained far down for my 14 mile commute so if I wanted to keep doing that, I'd need to buy a 2nd battery. Heavy bike + 2 heavy batteries didn't make me happy. Then I saw the Currie SLA conversion kit. I decided to put that on my regular, better bike. The weight savings for having a better lighter bike would make up for the weight of the 2nd battery. I got the kit, installed it, all was well. I then gave my ezip to my nephew. I tried selling it but got no nibbles! Then the kit stopped working and Currie is having problems with them so won't even try to fix it, so they want me to return it for a refund. But now I'm in a worse situation than before because I gave my ezip to my nephew and don't want to make him give it back!

So my choices are to buy a new eZip - at least the styling is better this year so I get something out of the whole fiasco.

Or if I'm gonna get a new bike I could get a Li-ion one and stop dicking around with 2 heavy SLA batteries. So I've got a Currie Ecoride on order (https://www.currietech.com/currie-tec...ctric-bike.php) but now I'm nervous about the "PAS Pedal Assist" system. With my ezip, often I would pedal without the battery - through traffic, through campus with pedestrians, on flats or slight (or major) downhills... But with the Ecoride (which I believe works the same as the Via Rapido), it says you have 2 modes - "Allows users to select between two modes.Pedaling Alone: This option gives 50% of available power assist, conserving energy. Pedaling while Activating Throttle: This option allows user to go from 50% to full power assist or anywhere in between."

To me, this sounds like any time you're pedaling, the motor is running. At first, that sounds fine, but I'm thinking about: 1) when I'm going slow through traffic, around pedestrians, through a parking lot, construction zone, etc. where I don't want to be going 15mph - I just want to pedal slow. 2) When it is flat or downhill I don't need the battery and having it running will perhaps cause the battery to run out before I get to work. 3) What about when I'm going >15mph by pedaling (for instance, slight downhill)? With the ezip, I know that the motor doesn't spin fast enough to provide any boost when pedaling faster than 14mph or so, so I would never turn the throttle when going this fast. So with the Ecoride, will the motor be running simply because I'm pedaling, even though it's providing no help at all? If so, that's a total waste. I hope I'm misinterpreting the limited description on the website. Hopefully at the very least, the motor stops running if you're already going >15mph.

This automated thing makes me nervous. I really want the better lithium ion battery over the SLA, but I'd rather just have a plain throttle where I decide when to use the motor. Currie will take the bike back if I don't like it (basically if the battery won't get me 14 miles to work, with me working hard, me being light, and some hills) but I have to pay the return shipping.

Does anyone have one of these bikes, and could shed some light on this? Sorry for the really long post, and yes I posted a separate thread about the ecoride. But I'm going nuts here and thought some of the people following this thread might have input.

Cathy

donob08

Kathy

I'm sorry to hear things haven't been going as you would wish. I have never seen an Ecoride and Currie's site is having trouble downloading the PDF of the owner's manual. So I'm not very informed.
Two thoughts: The Ecoride has a 250 watt motor as opposed to the 450 watt motor on the eZip. I recall that you are a light, energetic person but I also recall that you live in a hilly area. I think the fact that you have ensured that Currie will take it back for full purchase price covers this and was very wise.

Second, I can't find anything to describe the PAS feature. I'm sure you are aware that they call the handlebar switch on the eZip the TAG/PAS switch. Where TAG means Throttle And Go and PAS means Pedal Activated System which disables the throttle unless the sensor on the left pedal crank senses that the pedals are turning.

I wonder if this "new" PAS is really different. I suppose they could have put a sensor on the pedals to apply some power to the motor whenever the pedals are turning but that doesn't seem like a sound design. The Panasonic, sophisticated system, (not available in the US) and others, measure the force applied to the pedals and supply a force electrically that is proportional to the human generated force. It is even selectable 100% matching force or 75, 50,or whtever % to save battery power.

Even though the ecoride at $1200 is a big step up from the eZip it is still a low price compared to the more sophisticated systems. I doubt if it has that complexity.

Anyway, I'm not sure if your college/university has an engineering department but I would bet an EE would have no difficulty analyzing the system and harmlessly and reversibly disconnecting a connector that tells some system to behave as you described, if in fact it does that.

I think your attitude toward your nephew is admirable and is as people should be. Not to add to your angst but during the last 6 or 8 weeks my Ping LiFePo 15Ah, 24V battery has pulled my 220# happily well over 500 miles, with a couple 30+ mile trips over hilly ground.

Again, my degree is in electrical engineering. That made me feel safe handling the issues. I'm not saying everyone should try it.

I hope the Ecoride works for you. Don

vermontcathy

Don, thanks for all your input. Jeremy at ecoWheelz has looked at a Via Rapido and has (unfortunately) confirmed my fears of how this thing functions, ie: pedaling = motor running. However, his shop expressed concerns to Currie and they provided him with a jumper to make it twist-and-go. That makes me feel much better. I will try to get Currie to give me a jumper, and if they won't, I'll rig it myself. The important thing is that it's possible.

I'm feeling fairly confident that the battery will last my 14 miles, if I can rig it to not run the motor when I don't need it (flat areas, etc). So now the question is whether it will help me enough on hills. Only trying it will answer that question. I am willing to help the motor a lot. And this bike will be much lighter than the one with two SLA batteries. I've heard some people complain about low-watt motors not being able to get them up the hills unassisted. That's a big difference. I just want the motor to make it a bit easier so my speed doesn't drop so much and I don't get exhausted. Me and the motor, we're in this together - we'll help each other out!

So keep your fingers crossed for me. I'll keep you posted. I'm not sure what I'll do if this doesn't work. Perhaps go back to eZip + 2 batteries, but it's so freakin' heavy. (but Toys R Us has the new women's for $300!!)

Cathy

vermontcathy

Don, if this doesn't work, I think I'll be calling on you to help me fit Li-ion batteries to an eZip. Many many people mention doing it on this forum, but I will need very detailed directions - ie. buy these parts from these websites and here's how you wire it up. So get ready! Or cross you fingers even harder for the Ecoride!