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Thread: Which battery?

  1. #1
    Oooooooofffff SALESMAN! The Big Wheel's Avatar
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    Unhappy Which battery?

    I'm about to buy an amped bike kit and after doing a lot of research on which ping battery I should get I am still unsure! So back to square one.

    48v 15ah = $485, nice battery but way too expensive

    36v 20ah = $470, still kind of on the high side.

    36v 15ah
    = $385 - I am thinking about going with this one. Most of the distances I plan on commuting to aren't over 15 miles away. So I can recharge once I get to work. I'm just looking at this from a most bang for the buck point of view. I mean, should I just pony up the extra $100 upfront for the 48v15ah battery? I know that an extra $100 isn't much and I can afford it but just thinking about spending almost $500 on a battery is a huge turn off for me.
    "Why give some drunk the chance to plaster me against a car? That's why I don't even own a bike light, or one of those godawful reflective suits. Because if you've put yourself in a position where someone has to see you in order for you to be safe -- to see you, and to give a @#$% -- you've already blown it."


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  2. #2
    Senior Member nwmtnbkr's Avatar
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    How about a Headway 48V 10AH LIFEPO4 pack with BMS--price is $349 plus shipping. http://www.evcomponents.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=H4810

    I understand that a 48V 15AH headway pack will soon be available too. You might email the vendor in that link above and see when they might have them.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Snowsurfer's Avatar
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    I would honestly recommend the most battery that you could possibly buy.

    I strongly recommend getting the Ping 48 and 15. You will wish you had more

    electricity to keep you moving. Even at 48 and 15, you will wish you had more.

    But, still that is fine for your purpose. You get a good amount of speed, and good distance.

    It should be more than enough to power you to work and back.

    One other alternative is to get the 48 and 10 Ping battery, similar to the previous post.

    I recommend that you get that instead.

    I strongly recommend 48 and 15. Keep saving for another month or two if you need, don't eat take-out, get a second part-time job for a bit, but I strongly suggest that you get as much battery as you can possibly afford.

  4. #4
    Lost? No, seeing America.
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    I think you'll be happy either way, but always end up wanting more. That's just the nature of it. Don't forget that you can still pedal, too! It's honestly not that horrendous. Without battery, the weight of the kit slows me down maybe 2mph over an 8 mile level ground trip, from 15 to 13mph, gentle cruising. Hybrid bike with 700x40's. If the battery ever died, I know I could make it home, and could even push hard and *gasp* get sweaty if I really needed to.
    Don't forget about the $75 shipping! the $385 battery actually comes to $460.
    '02 Fuji Finest AL
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  5. #5
    California dreaming... Zephyr Boy's Avatar
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    Curious, doesn't the LiFePo4 batteries AH lasts longer than say a SLA AH rating? For example a new 36V 12AH SLA battery pack will take you ~20miles but a LiFePo4 36V 12AH may take you ~30miles? thanks.
    7-speed Beach Cruiser, 40psi balloon tires
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    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #6
    Senior Member Snowsurfer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyr Boy View Post
    Curious, doesn't the LiFePo4 batteries AH lasts longer than say a SLA AH rating? For example a new 36V 12AH SLA battery pack will take you ~20miles but a LiFePo4 36V 12AH may take you ~30miles? thanks.
    Yes, generally speaking, you take the advertised SLA Ah rating, and divide it by two. For LiFePO4 batteries, you would take the advertised rating, and take off 1.5Ah to get a real-life rating.

    e.g.
    a 36V 12Ah SLA pack may take you about 9 miles (full autonomy)
    a 36V 12Ah LiFePO4 pack may take you about 18 miles (full autonomy)

  7. #7
    Junior Member Juiced Riders's Avatar
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    Hi, like the others recommended, get the biggest battery you can afford. If you need to go 15 miles, don't get a battery that only take you exactly 15 miles. You will only ride around thinking about a getting a bigger pack and that's no fun.

    48V 15Ah LiFePO4 is awesome capacity and weight-wise. We have plenty of LiFePO4 48V 15Ah with built-in BMS and included 3A charger. Products are in stock and already in the USA. On top of that, free domestic shipping -within 24h. At the end of the day, the value is quite competitive. We are working hard to provide great products and service.

    contact: info@juicedriders.com for direct pricing.
    Please visit: http://www.juicedriders.com/
    www.juicedriders.com - electric bicycles and parts

  8. #8
    Oooooooofffff SALESMAN! The Big Wheel's Avatar
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    Holy smokes, $800???
    "Why give some drunk the chance to plaster me against a car? That's why I don't even own a bike light, or one of those godawful reflective suits. Because if you've put yourself in a position where someone has to see you in order for you to be safe -- to see you, and to give a @#$% -- you've already blown it."


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  9. #9
    P7 Fanboy JinbaIttai's Avatar
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    Even though you might spend $500 on a lifepo4 battery, you are not throwing the money away. If for some reason you change your mind later down the road, plenty of people will want to buy your used battery and you can make up a good portion of your initial investment. Not so much with SLAs. Those first 3 recommendations you are considering are all great choices. You'll probably have enough AH to ride to work and back and only charge at work to save on the electric bill.

  10. #10
    Junior Member Juiced Riders's Avatar
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    Great point. Used battery packs will be a huge emerging market. Especially as the cycle life is improving to a point where it can outlast the vehicle and as battery standardization is occur.

    We are at the start of a paradigm shift. At the moment, the payment model is shifted. It requires a different sort of thinking. With a gas-driven system, you pay little up front and incrementally as you go, an electric system makes you pay a lot up front and fractionally later. We have been spoiled by cheaply available oil.
    www.juicedriders.com - electric bicycles and parts

  11. #11
    Senior Member Snowsurfer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Wheel View Post
    Holy smokes, $800???
    Go with Ping, much cheaper, and guaranteed reliability.

    Don't believe me? Ask around at E-S, there are tons of people who have bought Pings. Stay away from other online retailers, and those ebay knock-offs.

    $800 is getting ripped off while...getting ripped off.

    Ping is reliable and a good guy. He replies to emails fast too. He can even modify the pack to how you want it.
    Also, he has the V2.5 packs out, you get a better quality prismatic cell in these. Who knows what version other sellers put in their packs.

  12. #12
    Junior Member Juiced Riders's Avatar
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    We tested our batteries and found them to be very robust. That's just text and text has never proven anything. We understand your worries. It is not interesting for us to sell bad products and anger customers.

    Right now we have $100 off which is bringing the cost down to $699 and further reduction through direct pricing: contact info@juicedriders.com . Shipping is included and ships from USA. Money back if not satisfied. Period.

    It may come as shock, but there are import and sales taxes associated with this sort of product -cost which is absorbed in the final price. When you consider the size of that pack and shipping, the price is quite competitive.
    www.juicedriders.com - electric bicycles and parts

  13. #13
    P7 Fanboy JinbaIttai's Avatar
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    I did pay over $100 to ship my ping.
    And then another $20 in shipping when some of the cells went bad.
    And then another $20 in shipping when I ruined some of the new cells when replacing them.
    And my soldering *** died while doing a repair. $$


    I guess my point is that there can be hidden costs in doing this so the cheapest isn't always the best, but Ping always responds.

    Juiced Riders: I haven't seen you around on Endless sphere. Do you post there? There aren't nearly enough US based lifepo4 vendors, at least ones that have a good attitude anyways.
    Last edited by JinbaIttai; 09-10-09 at 01:29 AM.

  14. #14
    Junior Member Juiced Riders's Avatar
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    yes to endless-shpere, but under a different name: lianjuin. Juiced Riders is born from the lack of good batteries and E-bike parts In the States. We are looking beyond the "ohh, this bike goes by itself" and thinking towards the: "now how can this E-bike really fit into my lifestyle?" concept.

    The E-bike is an amazing way to get around, but it still has a way to go. The first thing to address is the range. Running out of juice is totally unacceptable. The pack should not be tired until you are tired of riding. Super high speeds are not important and wires should not be hanging every which way.
    www.juicedriders.com - electric bicycles and parts

  15. #15
    Senior Member nwmtnbkr's Avatar
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    I have a question for those who have bought Ping batteries. Did you pay customs duties, and if so, how much? I've been looking at US sources but probably won't bite the bullet until spring. My SLAs are fine. I wish Yardworks lithium battery packs were available in the US, but they're not. Canadian ezip/izip users have successfully used those tool pack batteries and the included BMS without modification in their Currie battery cases, however, I'm not sure that the dimensions are right for Currie's rack mounted battery packs. The Canadian ezips and izips that many bought from Canadian Tire had the narrow, long battery case mounted behind the seat. (Any Canadian Yardworks battery user want to measure and post the dimensions--I've had trouble finding the dimensions on Canadian Tire's web page.)

    I plan on staying at 24V (I don't want speed, I just want pedal assist) and would love to have a second battery pack to ride even further next spring and summer. I've decided I'll ride this winter, but my riding pattern will be different--I'll be riding into and around town. In good weather, I generally ride forest roads, which are mountainous, since I'm smack dab in the middle of a huge national forest west of Glacier National Park. However, in the winter months, it's not safe to ride those roads--most aren't plowed. Plus, they're isolated and if you have an issue and can't ride or walk out, you're more than likely going to die from exposure before anyone finds you. (At least 1 motorist a year has some kind of issue on an isolated forest road here and dies of exposure--generally when they walk away from their vehicle and get lost--two years ago, 3 died in one winter.)

  16. #16
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    nwmtnbkr

    I bought my ping v2.5 24V, 15 AHr battery in April of this year. The cost of the battery was, as it is on his web page today, $269. There was a $60 shipping fee which included all customs work. So total cost was $329.

    Ping modified my battery so that it fit the currie rack case in 2 dimensions, height and width, but it was too thick so I had to make a bump out in the case. I know at least two others have done this.

    I've had nothing but happiness from my battery. I did a complete check on the hook up and use of the battery before it arrived. I know some have had bad results because they hooked the battery up incorrectly either for use or for charging.

    I get about 30 miles out of a charge on hilly ground with lots of muscle input. The battery has been charged at least once a day since April ~160 days. Its performance today seems the same as it was in April.
    Last edited by donob08; 09-10-09 at 07:45 PM.
    1971 Raleigh Super Course, bought for Honeymoon bikecamping trip around Nova Scotia, Updated with Phil Woods BB and 700C wheels, 2008 Currie eZip Trailz, with Ping LiFePO4's, Performance XPR Blaze, SWB Recumbent

    Life is too much fun, you almost forget the awkward bits, forgetting is dangerous.

  17. #17
    eBiker alfonsopilato's Avatar
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    Howdy good neighbours. I bought a version 2.5 15ah 48volt LifePo4 battery from Ping a month ago, for 650 bucks canadian in total , and that includes a diode, and a 2a 60 volt charger , includes shipping, no customs (he ships it as a gift). So far no troubles with it, and yes Ping always responds asap by email.

    the diode is because i'm connecting it in series with a 24 volt LifePo4 battery for my 72 volt system (50+kmh on flat, going up 30 degree hills at 32kmh, riding through high winds what's that? oooh baby !!! ). Right now I'm riding on a pedal first 30am controller, once I get my immediate start 35a controller intsalled I'm gonna be a total chick magnet!

    This is my second 48 volt LifePo4 battery. I have two of them right now, because I don't like to be left without a battery in case something were to happen. So I swap them weekly. The original one is a 48 volt 10 ah and it cost me a year ago... ready for this? 900 bucks canadian. OUCH!

    I'm glad to see Battery suppliers from North America. We need more local suppliers. I got nothing against global economy, but why buy afar when you can buy from next door ,eh?

    I gotz a question to Mr Juiced Riders: your battery packs are they all built home grown? Because if so, then that's super awesome.

    Keep up the good work and peace to all
    Last edited by alfonsopilato; 09-10-09 at 06:28 PM.

  18. #18
    Junior Member Juiced Riders's Avatar
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    alfonsopilato,

    Hi, What is your motor? That is an fast setup and fair price for 48V/15Ah. We can't say anything about Ping Battery as we have not tested it, but only that our charger is 3A, which is not a huge difference. Also an extra year (up to 2 years) warranty on Pack, BMS and Charger. Like anything else, it just gives people different options when it comes to packs.

    FBOW, our pack is imported but designed to drop right into the space of the 48V/10Ah or 36V/12Ah SLA packs with a clean design and minimal wires. It's frustrating to not have many "big" packs in North America and it's not easy for most build one.

    BTW, we just returned from more range testing at "Max Legal Speed and Power" This means 20mph(32kph)/750W/15A caps with the Cycle Analyst. The bike can achieve about 27mph(43kph) normally. On the real world up/downhill course it went about 32mi(51km) range with the throttle full open, zero pedaling and no effort to conserve energy. The pack put out 14.7Ah at 22.8 wh/mile (14.3wh/km) when the BMS cut in at 43V. This is not intended to be absolute max range test. Detailed results, GPS tracks, pix and video coming very soon.
    www.juicedriders.com - electric bicycles and parts

  19. #19
    Senior Member nwmtnbkr's Avatar
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    Don,

    Thanks for the info. Next spring, I may opt to get a second rack mount battery case with fresh SLAs and then might swap out the SLAs in my current case with Ping batteries. The bump out you did to the case, did you actually have to cut the case? Were Ping's two units too long for the Currie case? If it's not too much trouble, when you have a chance, could you post a picture of your modified case? I'd like to be keep the center of gravity low by using Currie cases on the rack, but with LIFEPO4.

    I have no problems getting 25 miles with my SLAs (I pedal all the time), but I know their efficiency will decline by next summer. I really am having fun exploring the forest roads here and would like to be able to go up some of the forest roads on the higher mountains next spring and summer, which will mean having two battery packs--one fresh SLA and one LIFEPO4 would be a nice combo.

  20. #20
    eBiker alfonsopilato's Avatar
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    Hi Juiced Riders,

    Good question, yes I should have mentioned that. The motor is none else but the crystalite 408. Versatile, robust workhorse of ebikes.

    I like your extended warranty (i like it.. i like it a lot).

    I also gotz a cycle analyst hooked up. I think it's a great device. Whether the law here will recognize it as a device that keeps the bike street legal, is another thing. So i keep under the radar by abiding to the speed limits and I keep to my right and follow road signs at all times. I got two one watt head lights that I put on strobe when I ride. I have two similar ones in red for the tail. I look like a cop car from far (without the sirens) I'm telling ya if you can't see me, ya need to be examined.

    Yes, the 51 km range is expected with a 15ah battery set at the parameters you've outlined. With a 72 volt system, I can achieve that easily as well, I just love the power to spare. Two weeks ago I went to my sister's , 27 km away, going up and down some sick hills (if you know Finch stree in Toronto, in the vicinty of Yonge), we're talking insane hills and that day very strong head winds. Full blast all the way and I had 5 ah to spare when I got to destination, I had capped to 40amps and the rest was left to maximum. Note to self, not doing that trip again, Finch is like a mini highway and at those speeds, potholes and cracks in the road make for a very hairy ride.

    I like your clean approach to your battery packs. It's really super cool to realise that range and power is not becoming an issue anymore.

    One day does not go by that i don't yap about my bike. One thing I find that don't work so well, is using tha topic for picking up chicks . Hi, I drive an ebike, it's super cool. Hullo? Where are you going? .. hulloo? (she's gone, without looking back)
    Last edited by alfonsopilato; 11-06-09 at 02:39 AM.

  21. #21
    Junior Member Juiced Riders's Avatar
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    Oh, I see, I was in Toronto earlier this year. Super nice town. E-bikes are great for conversation starters with the ladies. You just have to act like it's nothing: "Oh, this old thing, just a little project for me to get outdoors more..."

    Anyway, the test results are up. Video soon!
    http://www.juicedriders.com/testing/

    Trailguru is sometimes over loaded. We may use another system in the future.
    www.juicedriders.com - electric bicycles and parts

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by nwmtnbkr View Post
    Don,

    Thanks for the info. Next spring, I may opt to get a second rack mount battery case with fresh SLAs and then might swap out the SLAs in my current case with Ping batteries. The bump out you did to the case, did you actually have to cut the case? Were Ping's two units too long for the Currie case? If it's not too much trouble, when you have a chance, could you post a picture of your modified case? I'd like to be keep the center of gravity low by using Currie cases on the rack, but with LIFEPO4.

    I have no problems getting 25 miles with my SLAs (I pedal all the time), but I know their efficiency will decline by next summer. I really am having fun exploring the forest roads here and would like to be able to go up some of the forest roads on the higher mountains next spring and summer, which will mean having two battery packs--one fresh SLA and one LIFEPO4 would be a nice combo.
    nwmtnbkr,

    We're working on a LiFePo4 replacement for the Currie bikes right now. Don't have all the details worked out yet, but we're testing a 24V/12AH pack that fits right inside the RMB case with no major modifications. There's a plastic seperator inside that case that needs to be removed, but otherwise everything fits inside so it appears like the original pack.

    I'll let you know when I have some more details...

  23. #23
    eBiker alfonsopilato's Avatar
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    Oh, I see, I was in Toronto earlier this year. Super nice town.
    You obviously didn't visit during the shootings, stabbings and buses being put on fire.

    Oh, this old thing, just a little project for me to get outdoors more..."
    good one, i'll add that to my repertoire. I need all the help that I can get, not that I'm not good looking! I'm in fact ridiculously good looking, it's just that some often stop at "ridiculous"

    Anyway, the test results are up. Video soon!
    http://www.juicedriders.com/testing/
    wicked data and pictures
    I love that last picture of the road just sinking into the horizon.

    i like it .. i like it a lot

    I'll keep you in mind on my next project. Now that I am zipping around town, I get lots of interest. Especially when they finally catch up with me at the light and they are panting and saying between breaths: do you need a licence to run this thing?! That's when I start to whistle.

  24. #24
    Senior Member
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    Ping's 15 AmpHr is one rectangular brick. It looks a lot like Juice rider's photos. Normally the demensions are 5.9 x 4.1 x 5.9 inches. Ping made mine 5.8 x 8.5 x 3 inches. The three is too thick to fit in the case. Ping can adjust configuration since the battery is made up of individual foil packets.

    Yes, I had to cut out the interior dividers and cut thru the outside wall. This photo is not mine but from bluethermal on http://endless-sphere.com/forums/vie...149702#p149702 . This picture is of a 36 V, 20 AmpHr battery, so it has a lot more battery outside the case, but the idea is the same.

    Ping.trailz ebike10.jpg

    Since a 10Ahr battery is only 68% of the volume of my 15 AmpHr, it might fit all inside the case. I'm going to look at that for my second pack. 10AmpHr of LiFePO4 would be better than 10 of SLA, if only because the starting voltage is higher ~ 30 V. I, too, like the cases for the low CofG and the convenience of hook up/ removal and charging and impact protection.
    Last edited by donob08; 09-11-09 at 07:40 AM.
    1971 Raleigh Super Course, bought for Honeymoon bikecamping trip around Nova Scotia, Updated with Phil Woods BB and 700C wheels, 2008 Currie eZip Trailz, with Ping LiFePO4's, Performance XPR Blaze, SWB Recumbent

    Life is too much fun, you almost forget the awkward bits, forgetting is dangerous.

  25. #25
    Senior Member nwmtnbkr's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info and the link to the photo. I'd like to avoid cutting the case, too. Did you give Ping the interior measurements of the Currie case or did he already have that info? Did you solder your LIFEPO4 packs to the connections inside the Currie case or use connectors? Sorry to keep asking questions. Now that I know Ping will configure the batteries based on size needed, it's got me thinking more seriously about ordering one from him. I still will probably wait to order until much of this upcoming winter is behind us since I won't ride the steep hills once the winter weather is here.

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