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Old 04-16-10, 03:05 AM   #1
PJIII
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Cool Brand New Cyclone 3 pc chainwheel 650 watt TRIKE build w/ pics!!

This is my trike I just built. since Easter when I ordered the trike & 99% of all of the parts & some tools. I decided to do this build rather than buy it off the shelf for several reasons. The Gomier is belt drive & I worried about slippage. I have come to find that is not an issue---the belts have teeth & are carbon--not rubber. The Gomier is 24 volt & so is my build it is just that theirs is 450 watts & mine is 650 watts. Another thing is Gomier's is limited to 8 MPH & mine won't be although for saftety you don't drive a trike over 15 MPH. The gomier is also geared for one speed where as I will have a 6-speed rear cassette w/ a three chain-ring front crank-set w/ two for the rear for 12 speeds---the third ring is for the motor. The motor will mount on the seat-post on the rear side so it is out of the way & that keeps the motor chain behind the rider. Ok so the 24 V 650 watt Cyclone motor will be powered w/ a Cyclone controller & 4 33-amphr SLA batteries series/ parallel wired centered over the rear axle. For a battery case I am using a ready-made tool box 24" x 9" x 8"--it is neat---the batteries just fit & the box just fits---even red like the trike! I am using so much battery because I need the range that the Gomier does not have.



Some have questioned just how one can use a 3 Pc. chainwheel on an electric bike. It means being able to shift your front derailleur with the motor chain running on the chainwheel next to it & it does not seem that there would be room for two chains to pass & ordinarily I do not think there would be. However, in the case of a Cyclone 3 Pc. chainwheel kit there is a space created between the motor-driven chainwheel & the adjacent chainwheel by the freewheel. As far as the derailleur is concerned, due to the "space" it does not intrude into the path of the motor chain. The motor chainwheel is also the outside chainwheel with the the center & inside chainwheels being shift-able. The front derailleur has to have a span of at least 20 teeth ---the difference between the largest chainwheel tooth-count & the smallest. It also must have a range up to at least 44 teeth---the largest chainwheel & down to at least 24 teeth---the smallest chainwheel. Although it may appear that I mounted the motor so that the derailleur is centered between its chain that is not the case---I just want the motor out of the way--I could have mounted it any wher without chain interference.3-chainwheel-crank.jpg Below are a few pictures to help clarify the matters---note the gap between the two largest chainwheels.Trike chains.jpg
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Cyclone 650 watt 24V trike000_0050..jpgBottom bracket ad&.jpg000_0051..jpg000_0055..jpg000_0053..jpg000_0052..jpg000_0054..jpg
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File Type: jpg 000_0045..jpg (99.1 KB, 16 views)

Last edited by PJIII; 04-16-10 at 03:10 AM. Reason: pictures
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Old 04-16-10, 03:10 AM   #2
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Last edited by PJIII; 04-16-10 at 03:15 AM. Reason: NOTE
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Old 04-16-10, 03:12 AM   #3
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Click on the pictures to enlarge & CLICK ON ATTACHMENT, ATTACHTMENT FOR MOR PICS.

Last edited by PJIII; 04-16-10 at 03:16 AM. Reason: NOTE
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Old 04-16-10, 06:28 PM   #4
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Really nice looking job. Very clean and professional looking. But boy that's a lot of lead. I am assuming that they are not deep cycle batteries so keep close watch on them or they will be sucking wind with in a month.

I've never heard or thought about it for that matter but your comment about 15mph being the max safe speed for a trik suprised me. Good luck and have fun with it.
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Old 04-17-10, 01:33 PM   #5
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I agree, that's a beautiful trike. Nice build. Slow and steady is safest with a trike. Do you have a quality SLA battery charger? With the investment in your batteries, I'd get a top-of-the-line charger to get as many cycles as possible. Have fun.
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Old 04-17-10, 01:47 PM   #6
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Dumbass---thanks for the compliments---it was a big build but came out well---I am pleased. The batteries are deep cycle for wheelchairs & scooters SLA's. 4-33 amphr. I just could not afford LiFePo4---the SLA's were $300.00---yagottadowhatyagottado! I have the right charger for them--a smart-charger 6 amphr. I am range testing now & will be testing different speeds & gear combinations. It climbs the bridges fine but I think they suck the batteries a LOT. I am going to try the bridges in low -low gear & pedal assist to increase range. First try out I was not impressed but was in high gear at +- 15 MPH & only got 8 miles. The thing is I don't really have any idea of what to expect for range---it quit on me on that 1st test 1/2 mile from the house. I switched to low gear & pedaled home.

Yes, a trike starts to get unstable @ around 15 MPH & I would say the absolute limit is 20 MPH---the front wheel starts to get squirly at 15 & @ 20 you can REALLY feel it. I am hoping to be able to increase the range through gearing & speed reduction so I can do an occasional longer trips. Mostly I only need a few miles so I can cruise at 12 to 15 w/ no problem. Its on the charger now for the second time so the whole trike is a virgin & all new to me---I just have to take my time & work the tests out---it will probably take a week or two to understand it.

I live on fingers of land on the bay ---fingers like your hand with roads down each finger so I have miles of low traffic roads for testing. Since some of my trips include bridges I get get on Gulf blved & do a few miles taking in one bridge then coming back over it then I ride up & down finger after finger till I run the batteries dry & check my trip meter for my miles. So I will do this again & again using different gears & some pedal assist also until I KNOW the capabilities of the bike.
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Old 04-17-10, 02:03 PM   #7
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Thanks for the compliment---I worked my butt off on it---I am pleased with it. I am just in the testing phase now for range & gearing as I have 12 speeds it will take a while. Oh, I wax the trike! I have a cover for it also.

I have a SLA 6 amphr smart-charger---I got a heck of a deal on it---used for $30.00 & new the can run $ 250 or more. I bought it from a guy who has an electric wheel chair business so it is made for this. It just charged them up in 2 hrs--FAST!! The other day it took 4 hrs---that was my 1st ever charge.

(edit) I just came back from doing almost 10 miles in a rage check & have battery left but don't yet know how much. I stayed on flat roads in my neighborhood in my lowest gear with the throttle maxed at 8.5 MPH---I quit for today ---my butt is tired & I am sure my neighbors were wondering what the @$% I was up to going around the fingers so much! Maybe tomorrow I can finsh this one test---I have many more to do.

Last edited by PJIII; 04-17-10 at 03:34 PM. Reason: new info
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Old 04-17-10, 07:06 PM   #8
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Let me give you some cheap advise that will save you big money and pain. NEVER EVER run those batteries lower then 60% of capasity. If you continue to run them to a near dead level they will last you about 50 cycles. If you limit the draw to about 60% you will may get 200 or 300 hundread cycles from them. The rate of discharge also has a lot to do with the life of the batteries. Remember the AH rating of an SLA battery is based on a 20 hour discharge. So when you discharge them in say 30 or 60 minutes they were never designed to do that and it significantly shortens their life.

I am very suprised at the low miles you are getting. Maybe because it's a tric. My bike with a 360w 24v motor will travel 15 to 20 on a single 24v 18AH SLA pack when the pack is new. My 450w 24v bike will travel a good 25 miles on a single 24v 20AH lifepo4 pack.

One last thought......all batteries have a break in period and the harder you run them during the break in the shorter the life of the battery. Break in is normally considered as 10 to 20 cycles on most type of batteries.
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Old 04-18-10, 12:27 PM   #9
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[QUOTE=dumbass;10685912]Let me give you some cheap advise that will save you big money and pain. NEVER EVER run those batteries lower then 60% of capasity. If you continue to run them to a near dead level they will last you about 50 cycles. If you limit the draw to about 60% you will may get 200 or 300 hundread cycles from them.

Thanks. My controller limits how low I can discharge the batteries---I get a yellow light & it is time to pack it it in. A low voltage protection circuit will kick in & kill the power.

Yes, I am disappointed in my range so far---I thought it would be much better. That is why I am going through benchmark tests with different speeds & gears. I am sure these bridges I have are going to be my nemesis & low low gear is the best I can do for them. I have tried pedaling with the trike and find I can rarely catch up with it to help it along.

Ok, so far into a range test in low low gear I have 10.25 miles @8.5 MPH on flat roads and have not gone further due to rain. It will be interesting to see how far I get---I am hoping for a lot more miles.

(edit) Further progress---up to 58.5 miles in the yellow but still have battery left.

Last edited by PJIII; 04-19-10 at 05:29 PM. Reason: addition
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Old 04-18-10, 01:34 PM   #10
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I hope you are always recharging those batteries ASAP. Do you have a volt and/or AH meter on the bike? It would be interesting to see what the voltage is when the controller cut off the power. Could be the controller is the problem and the batteries are still fine. But you would need to see the voltage as soon as the power cuts off or the batteries will build quickly and fool you into thinking they have more volts then they actually do. An AH meter is always a good addition to any bike. You said your running 4 33ah batteries at 24v so you are actually running on 24v 66ah. That's a lot of power and it's just to hard to believe your eating that much power in that short of distance. Something has to be wrong. Are you sure your not dragging an anchor or your car behind you?

I really would investigate the controller cutoff to be sure it's cutting off as needed and not way early. You can buy a cheap ebike meter to track both the voltage and AH useage.
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Old 04-20-10, 10:43 AM   #11
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Ok, 1st mileage test complete---75.41 miles on flat roads ---stopped test @ throttle red light---batteries discharged to 22.18 volts---checked battery voltage w/ 10 seconds of stopping---batteries on charger now. Is this too low of a discharge state? What is the safe discharge level?

(edit)The recommended end-of-discharge voltage for the SLA is 1.75V/cell. Unlike the preferred flat discharge curve of the NiCd, the SLA has a gradual voltage drop with a rapid drop towards the end of discharge (see Figure 5-1).
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Old 04-20-10, 04:57 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by PJIII View Post
Ok, 1st mileage test complete---75.41 miles on flat roads ---stopped test @ throttle red light---batteries discharged to 22.18 volts---checked battery voltage w/ 10 seconds of stopping---batteries on charger now. Is this too low of a discharge state? What is the safe discharge level?

(edit)The recommended end-of-discharge voltage for the SLA is 1.75V/cell. Unlike the preferred flat discharge curve of the NiCd, the SLA has a gradual voltage drop with a rapid drop towards the end of discharge (see Figure 5-1).


I fear you are over discharging your batteries. Long range is always great but I think long battery life in greater. The artical you are using as a reference points out exactly what I'm saying. Low discharge long life. High discharge short life. At the rate you are currently discharging those batteries you will be replacing them by the end of the year or sooner.
  • 150 – 200 cycles with 100 percent depth of discharge (full discharge)
  • 400 – 500 cycles with 50 percent depth of discharge (partial discharge)
  • 1000 and more cycles with 30 percent depth of discharge (shallow discharge)
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Old 04-20-10, 07:24 PM   #13
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Battery discharge levels

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Originally Posted by dumbass View Post
I fear you are over discharging your batteries. Long range is always great but I think long battery life in greater. The artical you are using as a reference points out exactly what I'm saying. Low discharge long life. High discharge short life. At the rate you are currently discharging those batteries you will be replacing them by the end of the year or sooner.
  • 150 – 200 cycles with 100 percent depth of discharge (full discharge)
  • 400 – 500 cycles with 50 percent depth of discharge (partial discharge)
  • 1000 and more cycles with 30 percent depth of discharge (shallow discharge)
I am familiar w/ your bullet list however, you still provide no safe VOLTAGE for discharge---without that it is just a generality that my meter cannot measure.

REMEMBER, I am in a testing mode--I do not intend to continue to push the batteries this hard---I needed a base line to work from. So far, from the information I have been able to collect the safe discharge level for my 24 volt batteries lies somewhere between 24.4 volts and 21.0 volts---that range is simply TOO large--I need some SOLID information to go on.

I believe the following is GOOD information I can trust.

Hello Mr. Tone,

Lead Acid resting State of Charge voltages

12.65 V = 100% 25.30
12.45 V = 75% 24.90
12.24 V = 50% 24.48
12.06 V = 25% 24.12
11.89 V or less = discharged 23.78

Resting voltage is taken at room temperature and 12 - 24 hours after the completion of charging.

Tom

Using the chart above and its discharged state of 23.78 volts my range should be at + - 50.00 miles in low low gear at 8.5 MPH which is about when my yellow light came on so NOW I can use that as a REAL point of reference.

Last edited by PJIII; 04-20-10 at 07:29 PM. Reason: correction
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