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  1. #1
    Super Moderator no1mad's Avatar
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    Recharging times

    As pointed out in another thread, the DreamE by Day6 is a bit overpriced for what you get. That being said, I might be getting one of the Day6 models and converting it myself. Only thing is, I have no clue in what kits to be considering. I need to be able to travel at least 30 miles one way to work. That should not be an issue.

    What I think my biggest factor to overcome is the recharge time. Sometimes I work for only 6 hours, other times more. I know I can make it to work on a fully charged battery, but don't know if I could make it home on less than a full charge. Is there any batteries out there that could fully charge in less than 6 hours?

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    You'd probably want something like a 36v30AH or 48v30AH lifepo4 battery for that. That's quite a trip. Then get a 10 amp charger for it and you could charge it in 3 hours. To determine charge time, take the AH and divide by the amps of the charger. So 30AH / 10 amp charger = 3 hours. That's if you charge all cells at the same time.

    You could probably do it on a 36v20AH battery if you don't ride too fast and you use a 20 amp controller for efficiency. If you about 18 mph - 20 mph the whole way. You'd be stretching the battery to it's limits though especially if there are any hills.

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    Senior Member rscamp's Avatar
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    A CC-CV charger reduces the current to maintain the termination voltage in the latter stage of charging which would extend the charge time beyond three hours in the example above.
    Rob

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    Quote Originally Posted by no1mad View Post
    As pointed out in another thread, the DreamE by Day6 is a bit overpriced for what you get. That being said, I might be getting one of the Day6 models and converting it myself. Only thing is, I have no clue in what kits to be considering. I need to be able to travel at least 30 miles one way to work. That should not be an issue.

    What I think my biggest factor to overcome is the recharge time. Sometimes I work for only 6 hours, other times more. I know I can make it to work on a fully charged battery, but don't know if I could make it home on less than a full charge. Is there any batteries out there that could fully charge in less than 6 hours?
    As I pointed out in Angie's thread the motors used on the Day6 bikes are Cyclone motor kits made in TW. There are several to choose from starting at 200w on up to twin 1500w setups. You indicate how far you travel but not how fast you want to travel nor how hilly the area is or how much you want to peddle.

    Buying the motor kit directly from the manufacture is a lot cheaper but not as fast. the problem with buying from the Us supplier is he (Jim Olson) only carries the 360w and 500w and they have the controller built into the motor. While I have 2 of the 360w setups like this I personally think it would be better to have the controller as a stand alone. Less heat build up and if it fails you have less problems and cost to replace it. The manufacture sells the motors with or without the controllers built in. They can also supply you the batteries but I would recommend Thunder Sky batteries from Elite Power Solutions. If you bought say a 500w 24v motor kit I would recomend buying 4 12v 20ah battery packs from EP. Wire them as twin 24v 20ah packs. If you peddled with the motor you should get 40 miles with no problem. You ether carry a charger with you or leave one at work for recharging. these batteries can be recharged is 6 hours with no problem. You will likely only be using 20 to 30 AHs so you will need a charger capable of charging at 24v 10a. You could charge 1 pack in 3 hours and then the other in the following 3 hours.


    http://www.cyclone-usa.com/

    http://www.cyclone-tw.com/

  5. #5
    E-Folder Geekybiker's Avatar
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    The motors are actually headline motors.
    Cyclone sells them, but the other companies may be getting them direct from headline as well.

    To figure battery size- AH*V=wH (watt hours) that's the real measure of stored energy.
    Most people seem to be hitting low 20's for wH per mile without pedaling.

    For 30 miles you'll want 30x23= 690 wH. Plus another 20% for safety and not killing the pack completely.
    So 828wH approximately

    Devide by the voltage you're getting (24 for cyclone 500w) and you see you need 34.5AH of batteries.

    SLA batteries will need a bigger safety range.

    The back dumbass suggests will give you 40AH @ 24V

    That's alot of pack to charge and high amp chargers are spendy. You can wire it so you can break the pack at work into several smaller packs and use multiple chargers. If you break it into 12v packs you can use easier to find and less expensive 12v chargers.

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    Senior Member nwmtnbkr's Avatar
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    no1mad,

    I hate to be a naysayer, but if you live in an area that has mass transit, maybe you should consider using multiple modes of transportation. Say, bicycle to a train or subway. No street-legal e-bike is going to be able to perform like a motorcycle and get you to your destination 30 miles away quickly. (In the US, most states require e-bikes that can travel over 20 MPH or have motors over 750W to be licensed and insured as mopeds.) I don't recall reading posts on the Endless Spheres forums of people with Cyclone motors reaching high speeds (30 MPH). Some members on Endless Spheres report speeds of 30 MPH, but they're using very powerful hub motors, which produce a lot of torque. No one is sure how long the frame of a bicycle, which wasn't engineered to withstand that kind of prolonged exposure to high torque, can take that kind of abuse before something fails. Clearly, there a a number of reports of forks, including steel forks, failing due to torque from hub motors. Time will tell on the damage being done by high-powered hub motors mounted to the rear wheel. Good luck.

  7. #7
    E-Folder Geekybiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nwmtnbkr View Post
    I don't recall reading posts on the Endless Spheres forums of people with Cyclone motors reaching high speeds (30 MPH). Some members on Endless Spheres report speeds of 30 MPH, but they're using very powerful hub motors, which produce a lot of torque.
    Not on a 360w or 500w kit, but the bigger kits will certainly get there. Its mostly a matter of figuring out your gearing. Most folks on ES who are getting into the higher end non-hub drive tech are moving to RC motors and not cyclone stuff. I know there is a user on here (Kevinator I think ) who has a 900w and said he could get to 30mph and had head room on the motor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geekybiker View Post
    Not on a 360w or 500w kit, but the bigger kits will certainly get there. Its mostly a matter of figuring out your gearing. Most folks on ES who are getting into the higher end non-hub drive tech are moving to RC motors and not cyclone stuff. I know there is a user on here (Kevinator I think ) who has a 900w and said he could get to 30mph and had head room on the motor.
    It's interesting that yous are arguing about weather a Cyclone motor can get 30mph or not. Let me assure you the larger Cyclone motors can get 30mph and a lot..lot more and you still add a major advantage of having the gear system to increase your speed or torque as needed that a hub motor can any dream about doing. But who cares? That issue was never a question from no1mad. He only refered to needing 30 miles of range in one direction and being about to recharge in 6 hours. He never mentioned 30mph!! Nor how much he intends to peddle. In face with all the comments that we have offered up he has never even responded to one of them and likely hasn't even read them.

    As for Geekybiker comment about a 40ah pack being a lot to charge in 6hrs is not true at all. I've run 40ah packs for 3+ years and with the correct charger it's no problem at all. I do prefer breaking them down to 12v for charging though so all my packs (3 SLA 24v 36ah and 2 lifepo4 TS 24v 40ah) are setup with Anderson connectors so I can charge at 12v or 24v and still run at 24v.

  9. #9
    E-Folder Geekybiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dumbass View Post
    As for Geekybiker comment about a 40ah pack being a lot to charge in 6hrs is not true at all. I've run 40ah packs for 3+ years and with the correct charger it's no problem at all. I do prefer breaking them down to 12v for charging though so all my packs (3 SLA 24v 36ah and 2 lifepo4 TS 24v 40ah) are setup with Anderson connectors so I can charge at 12v or 24v and still run at 24v.
    The problem is the correct charger to do it without splitting the pack is $$$, not that its difficult. Then again 40ah of LiFePo4 isn't cheap either....

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geekybiker View Post
    The problem is the correct charger to do it without splitting the pack is $$$, not that its difficult. Then again 40ah of LiFePo4 isn't cheap either....
    Yep, your right both speed and range cost money and as the old saying goes "how fast do ya wanna go?". A 12v Thunder Sky pack from Elite Power Solutions is $120 ea. or 480 bucks for 24v 40ah and it would weigh in at 48lbs (also not exactly light). Charging could be done easily with a good 12v SLA charger. A good Black & Decker automatic charger capable of 10a goes for around $40 * 2 = $80. I would recommend LVC for discharge protection (CellLog 8) that sells for around $20 * 2 = $40. Total 560 bucks. Is this cheap? Nope it sure isn't and there are cheaper batteries (lipo) that would also be lighter to carry. But you better know what your doing before you play with lipo especially this big.

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