I have a 24 mile commute, what are my options?
09-19-10, 09:42 AM
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Here is something a local company has built to take advantage of bike lanes. It's really a scooter, but it has pedals or the ability to use pedals so it can be classified as an ebike and therefore it's theoretically ok for bike paths around here. I'm not sure if how the police hassle or ticket people using this. I think the advantage of this is that it carries a lot of batteries and could give you the speed and range you want. It will allow you to pedal to get exercise as well.
Downside is that it's pretty big and I doubt you could park this in a bicycle rack.
https://www.giobikes.com/Electric-Sco...00w-E-Scooter/
Downside is that it's pretty big and I doubt you could park this in a bicycle rack.
https://www.giobikes.com/Electric-Sco...00w-E-Scooter/
09-19-10, 04:22 PM
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Here is something a local company has built to take advantage of bike lanes. It's really a scooter, but it has pedals or the ability to use pedals so it can be classified as an ebike and therefore it's theoretically ok for bike paths around here. I'm not sure if how the police hassle or ticket people using this. I think the advantage of this is that it carries a lot of batteries and could give you the speed and range you want. It will allow you to pedal to get exercise as well.
Downside is that it's pretty big and I doubt you could park this in a bicycle rack.
https://www.giobikes.com/Electric-Sco...00w-E-Scooter/
Downside is that it's pretty big and I doubt you could park this in a bicycle rack.
https://www.giobikes.com/Electric-Sco...00w-E-Scooter/
09-19-10, 10:07 PM
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I've been a bike or ped commuter for the better part of the past 10 years, and I've just taken a position that's 24 miles away from my house. I immediately ruled out biking under my own power, since 24 miles is a good 2 hours' ride for me on my commuter, and there's essentially no usable public transit here. As much good as 4 hours a day riding would do for me, I can't justify that kind of time commitment.
What I'm looking for in an assist system is something that can bring that time commitment down to what I consider tolerable levels (say, 75 minutes max). So here's the requirements, as far as I see them:
- 24 miles each way means I need either a ~50 mile range, or a ~25 mile range that can recharge within 8 hours
- This route would have what I consider "moderate" hills; it's not flat, but there's nothing massive.
- I'm a heavy guy (230 pounds) so I figure regenerative braking would be a major advantage when dealing with that much mass.
- Since I need to get the commute down around an hour and a quarter each way, I'd need to average at *least* 20 miles per hour (ideally more like 25)
- Price is always a consideration, but I'm willing to pay for something that works better. The BionX 500 seems to be the fastest option, and it's kind of my baseline here at around $2k
So here are some questions:
- Can the BionX 500 handle this kind of usage in the real world, especially on moderate hills with somebody of my size? If it's not, can it be modded to meet these needs?
- If I'm willing to spend, say, up to $4k, is there anything substantially better than the BionX 500?
- Is there any way to figure out what the laws here actually are? I live in NC and people on forums seem to think anything under 700 watts is kosher (beyond that they're classed as mopeds), but I'd love to see some actual laws that say this.
- My commuter is currently a touring bike. Ideally I'd like to continue using that since it rides well and has fenders and a rack, but it crossed my mind that I could use my road bike instead (if it matters). Under human power I gain 2-5 mph on the road bike, but I don't know how that equates to electric assist performance.
If there's just nothing electric that's practical, I do have a car, I just hate to drive if I can avoid it. I'd also consider a scooter, but that still uses gas and doesn't give me the exercise (which is half the reason to cycle commute to begin with).
Thanks!
What I'm looking for in an assist system is something that can bring that time commitment down to what I consider tolerable levels (say, 75 minutes max). So here's the requirements, as far as I see them:
- 24 miles each way means I need either a ~50 mile range, or a ~25 mile range that can recharge within 8 hours
- This route would have what I consider "moderate" hills; it's not flat, but there's nothing massive.
- I'm a heavy guy (230 pounds) so I figure regenerative braking would be a major advantage when dealing with that much mass.
- Since I need to get the commute down around an hour and a quarter each way, I'd need to average at *least* 20 miles per hour (ideally more like 25)
- Price is always a consideration, but I'm willing to pay for something that works better. The BionX 500 seems to be the fastest option, and it's kind of my baseline here at around $2k
So here are some questions:
- Can the BionX 500 handle this kind of usage in the real world, especially on moderate hills with somebody of my size? If it's not, can it be modded to meet these needs?
- If I'm willing to spend, say, up to $4k, is there anything substantially better than the BionX 500?
- Is there any way to figure out what the laws here actually are? I live in NC and people on forums seem to think anything under 700 watts is kosher (beyond that they're classed as mopeds), but I'd love to see some actual laws that say this.
- My commuter is currently a touring bike. Ideally I'd like to continue using that since it rides well and has fenders and a rack, but it crossed my mind that I could use my road bike instead (if it matters). Under human power I gain 2-5 mph on the road bike, but I don't know how that equates to electric assist performance.
If there's just nothing electric that's practical, I do have a car, I just hate to drive if I can avoid it. I'd also consider a scooter, but that still uses gas and doesn't give me the exercise (which is half the reason to cycle commute to begin with).
Thanks!
You can check here to get an idea of power usage: https://www.evsroll.com/Electric_Motor_for_Bike.html
If for example at 20 mph and say 20 miles you will be likely pulling at least around say 400 Watts for that hour. 400 Watts x 1 hour = 0.40 Kilowatt hours. Since you need 24 miles and there are losses, round it up to 0.5 kWh. This is a somewhat conservative estimate, and depends on how much you pedal as well as use the throttle.
What does this mean in terms of bikes?
A 36 Volt battery with 15 amp hours of storage has 15 x 15 = 540 Watts, or 0.54 Kilowatts.
However, you usually only pull a battery down to 80% SOC - of full.
You might want to consider a 20 amp hour battery pack. At 3 amps per hour, it could probably be topped off or near to it in the 8 hours you have at work.
Next, you want a 36 volt system minimum, and probably a 1,000 Watt motor minimum. This may mean you draw more power, that depends on you, but your size probably needs a powerful motor. Note however that the Federally mandated maximum is 750 watts....which is still pretty powerful.
In any case, do the math. Start with the estimates above and make sure any e-bike you get can meet your power needs...it is all about the power and storage at the end of the day.
Bottom line, you need a big battery pack and powerful motor, do not settle for less.
As for bikes that fit your needs, have you considered a kit? For around $1,000 you can DIY a bike to suit your needs - (https://www.evsroll.com/DIY_Electric_Bike.html) it depends on your skills or friends.
Crystallyte also makes some real powerful kits. Check Terry at (https://www.hightekbikes.com/) or Amped Bikes (https://ampedbikes.com/) for kit info. These guys are experts and can offer advice on sizing and so on.
If not DIY, heres a few bike suggestions:
Whisper e-bikes
Rayos e-bike (if still made)
Bionix
e+ bikes
Currie Izip EVO Drive e-bike
Currie Izip Express e-bike
Optibike, Grace e-bike and the PiCycle if you've got the $$
Avoid: X-Treme
I would recommend you consider a kit and help assembling if needed.
09-22-10, 04:36 PM
#29
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Something I don't know anyone has mentioned, but make sure it is okay to charge at work *before* you plan on doing this. Some companies may not like having a bike hooked up every day.
09-23-10, 11:28 AM
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Well certainly lots to think about when considering motor assist eh? At this time outside of the previously mentioned Optibike there are very few bike specifically engineered as ebikes. The rest are just kits that are set up on bikes that are not designed to be motorized. Yes you can do it but as time goes on there will be more bikes that are ground up designs that will not only address the assist but also the stresses the frame, wheels and componentry undergoes along with the extra weight that they bring to the table. As you are already towards the limit of what most manufacturers plan on this can be an issue. Or not, caveat empor.
After having done just about everything you can to motorize a bike in the last 10 years and having many miles under my cleats using one to travel short and long trips I have come to the conclusion that there is no perfect system for all. But one thing I do know is that the 20 mph limit is not enough for a true cyclist to get with the ebike program, especially if they see getting to work 24 miles away, that 25 mph would be better. I like e for around town use as it is unobtrusive and the 20 mph limit is not restrictive in a mainly urban environment.
However I do like to clip along on the more open roads and after having ridden faster, well you just want to ride about that fast all the time. I pedal 95% of the time via gearing on the human side that allows for me to be able to. This requires a pretty high gear range but it is entirely possible.
One way to make smaller engines work more in your favor is to run it through the bikes drivetrain. This allows for a range of gearing that makes the best use of a 1 hp or so class of bike
much more useful in the real world. Unfortunately the regs plainly state that there be no manual shifting of gearing while under power which is why all the scooters these days are automatic also.
So where I am at now is ditching the motorized bike concept and moving up to the moped class which allows for a higher legal top speed of 30 mph. Yes there is a bit more red tape by involving the DOT but it is doable. At this time we are only using 49cc 4 cycle gas motors but it doesn't take a big amount of vision to see this type of bike with a battery setup in the frame cradle.
party 2010 052.JPG..jpg
After having done just about everything you can to motorize a bike in the last 10 years and having many miles under my cleats using one to travel short and long trips I have come to the conclusion that there is no perfect system for all. But one thing I do know is that the 20 mph limit is not enough for a true cyclist to get with the ebike program, especially if they see getting to work 24 miles away, that 25 mph would be better. I like e for around town use as it is unobtrusive and the 20 mph limit is not restrictive in a mainly urban environment.
However I do like to clip along on the more open roads and after having ridden faster, well you just want to ride about that fast all the time. I pedal 95% of the time via gearing on the human side that allows for me to be able to. This requires a pretty high gear range but it is entirely possible.
One way to make smaller engines work more in your favor is to run it through the bikes drivetrain. This allows for a range of gearing that makes the best use of a 1 hp or so class of bike
much more useful in the real world. Unfortunately the regs plainly state that there be no manual shifting of gearing while under power which is why all the scooters these days are automatic also.
So where I am at now is ditching the motorized bike concept and moving up to the moped class which allows for a higher legal top speed of 30 mph. Yes there is a bit more red tape by involving the DOT but it is doable. At this time we are only using 49cc 4 cycle gas motors but it doesn't take a big amount of vision to see this type of bike with a battery setup in the frame cradle.
party 2010 052.JPG..jpg
09-23-10, 07:29 PM
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Good point, another, is that if you go that route, get a second charger. Yes, you could take it to work with you, but they are not designed to get banged around on a bike on a regular basis, and it would make sense to have a spare if it's going to be your main source of transportation.
09-23-10, 07:58 PM
#32
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Personally I would go with a DIY
Get a dual suspension mountain bike with steal frame.
slap on a good strong motor.
go for the largest capacity/voltage battery, say https://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/t...LiFePO4/Detail
this way you only need to charge once (at home)
you can harness your battery pack to your bike using steal belts bolted to your bike.. the battery ain't going nowhere.
If you go that route, it will run you about $1300 battery, $200 bike, $400 motor and $300 controller... something like $2200 .
I got a 72 volt setup, 15ah, with a 5304 crystalyte motor,I only charge once every day at home and commute 30 km a day in total, 15 each way.
You get insane speed and range, and your bike looks like a bike, no hassle from cops nor cyclists (except the ones you pass eheheh
)
So you might say oh 2200 is a lot.
yep... but don't forget, there's lot of $600 ebikes out there sold by walmart and canadian tires (i'm from canada, dunno where you're at, sorry didn't read your profile nor the thread from the beginning) these bikes don't quite cut it and you'll be happy you went with the DIY because the more you get involved in building and repairing your bike, the more enjoyment you'll get out of owning one (you DO NOT want to be relying solely on others to fix your bike).
if you're a fan of the show "dirty jobs" then you'll recognise the saying: "now get ready to get dirty" :-))
i'm talking building your wheel, keeping it round and true, changing tires, brakes and of course bragging about it to folks who will come to you and say: WOW, where can i get one of these, ... to which you'll reply: you can't, I built it!
Get a dual suspension mountain bike with steal frame.
slap on a good strong motor.
go for the largest capacity/voltage battery, say https://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/t...LiFePO4/Detail
this way you only need to charge once (at home)
you can harness your battery pack to your bike using steal belts bolted to your bike.. the battery ain't going nowhere.
If you go that route, it will run you about $1300 battery, $200 bike, $400 motor and $300 controller... something like $2200 .
I got a 72 volt setup, 15ah, with a 5304 crystalyte motor,I only charge once every day at home and commute 30 km a day in total, 15 each way.
You get insane speed and range, and your bike looks like a bike, no hassle from cops nor cyclists (except the ones you pass eheheh
)So you might say oh 2200 is a lot.
yep... but don't forget, there's lot of $600 ebikes out there sold by walmart and canadian tires (i'm from canada, dunno where you're at, sorry didn't read your profile nor the thread from the beginning) these bikes don't quite cut it and you'll be happy you went with the DIY because the more you get involved in building and repairing your bike, the more enjoyment you'll get out of owning one (you DO NOT want to be relying solely on others to fix your bike).
if you're a fan of the show "dirty jobs" then you'll recognise the saying: "now get ready to get dirty" :-))
i'm talking building your wheel, keeping it round and true, changing tires, brakes and of course bragging about it to folks who will come to you and say: WOW, where can i get one of these, ... to which you'll reply: you can't, I built it!
Last edited by alfonsopilato; 09-24-10 at 05:33 AM.
09-25-10, 09:24 PM
#33
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You get insane speed and range, and your bike looks like a bike, no hassle from cops nor cyclists (except the ones you pass eheheh )
So you might say oh 2200 is a lot.
yep... but don't forget, there's lot of $600 ebikes out there sold by walmart and canadian tires (i'm from canada, dunno where you're at, sorry didn't read your profile nor the thread from the beginning) these bikes don't quite cut it and you'll be happy you went with the DIY because the more you get involved in building and repairing your bike, the more enjoyment you'll get out of owning one (you DO NOT want to be relying solely on others to fix your bike).
if you're a fan of the show "dirty jobs" then you'll recognise the saying: "now get ready to get dirty" :-))
i'm talking building your wheel, keeping it round and true, changing tires, brakes and of course bragging about it to folks who will come to you and say: WOW, where can i get one of these, ... to which you'll reply: you can't, I built it!
)So you might say oh 2200 is a lot.
yep... but don't forget, there's lot of $600 ebikes out there sold by walmart and canadian tires (i'm from canada, dunno where you're at, sorry didn't read your profile nor the thread from the beginning) these bikes don't quite cut it and you'll be happy you went with the DIY because the more you get involved in building and repairing your bike, the more enjoyment you'll get out of owning one (you DO NOT want to be relying solely on others to fix your bike).
if you're a fan of the show "dirty jobs" then you'll recognise the saying: "now get ready to get dirty" :-))
i'm talking building your wheel, keeping it round and true, changing tires, brakes and of course bragging about it to folks who will come to you and say: WOW, where can i get one of these, ... to which you'll reply: you can't, I built it!
10-22-10, 04:00 PM
#35
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It sounds like you are looking for a serious system. It may be too late as you may have already bought a bike but here are my two cents. Bionx: great company but there is more bang for your buck out there. I recently was int he market for a seriously powered electric bike with massive range as I too am a commuter The only way I discovered to get a 50 mile range was to go with a 20 AH LiFePO4 48V battery. If you're looking to charge while at work you could also go with a 10 AH or maybe a 15 AH battery just to be safe. As far as chargers go a 4A charger should be able to recharge a 15 AH battery in 3:45 and a 10 AH in 2:30 so that should take care of you. If you're looking for some top speeds no one out there is better than Electrified Bicycles (well Optibike claims to be, but they run about ten grand). These guys can get your<mode edit--shill link removed> running at speeds up to 40 MPH. I had live in a similar area as you with some hills and such so I went with more of a torque-y motor and so top out at speeds of 33 mph.
In all before you buy a bike I'd check these guys out.
In all before you buy a bike I'd check these guys out.
Last edited by Allen; 10-27-10 at 02:21 PM.
10-23-10, 02:24 AM
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one option is to buy and pack a second battery. Thats what I do to complete a 1h and 45min comute. The extra battery fits on the back rack of my bike. On nicer days, I often leave the second battery at home, peddle a bit more, and ride a little more often with the throttle partially turn on instead of cranked. Very often, I still have battery power left when I finish my ride.
one might thinks of the batteries as too heavy to pack a second battery, and they are correct if you are using SLA batteries, each of my SLA packs weighs in at 22lbs, so a second battery pack is no fun because it brings the weight of the batteries up to 44 lbs.
However! my Lithium batteries are only 6.5 lbs each, so carrying a second battery pack is very easy. you wont notice the weight.
one might thinks of the batteries as too heavy to pack a second battery, and they are correct if you are using SLA batteries, each of my SLA packs weighs in at 22lbs, so a second battery pack is no fun because it brings the weight of the batteries up to 44 lbs.
However! my Lithium batteries are only 6.5 lbs each, so carrying a second battery pack is very easy. you wont notice the weight.
10-27-10, 04:43 PM
#37
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Some additional points to think about:
- if you need to go 24 miles, you will probably need to do more pedaling than using a throttle only (some bikes don't offer a throttle and some do). A bikes range depends on all of the things you mentioned as well as how much you use the electric only vs pedal assist. That is a long distance so you will definitely be doing some good pedaling
- The laws are very confusing in the US. We are in Mass and its difficult to get a real answer. I know that the federal gov limits an eBike to a top speed of 25 MPH. Below that and you can use it like any bicycle, above it and regulations start to kick in. Of course every state is different and many have lower top speeds so talking to the RMV is good advice.
- Most batteries I have seen should have no problem recharging in 8 hours. 4-6 seems common.
I hope this helps.
Peter
- if you need to go 24 miles, you will probably need to do more pedaling than using a throttle only (some bikes don't offer a throttle and some do). A bikes range depends on all of the things you mentioned as well as how much you use the electric only vs pedal assist. That is a long distance so you will definitely be doing some good pedaling
- The laws are very confusing in the US. We are in Mass and its difficult to get a real answer. I know that the federal gov limits an eBike to a top speed of 25 MPH. Below that and you can use it like any bicycle, above it and regulations start to kick in. Of course every state is different and many have lower top speeds so talking to the RMV is good advice.
- Most batteries I have seen should have no problem recharging in 8 hours. 4-6 seems common.
I hope this helps.
Peter
01-17-11, 04:45 PM
#38
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i'm doing a 15 mile commute with an E+... getting a lipo pack to extend distance
Have an E+ commuter from elv motors in santa clara, ca. Very fast... easily hits 28 to 32 mph, but that will drain battery faster. For distance and safety I tend to keep speed at about 20 mph. I'm getting a lipo pack to extend range. You might be able to make that commute if you purchase a lipo pack to augment the wheel battery pack and use the pedals. The E+ is a heavy bike but has a nice, super smooth ride. It's a funny animal... edging into scooter territory, but with big wheels and pedal.
01-17-11, 04:48 PM
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I said that because of the weight. It looks like an ordinary bicycle. I don't think you'd get pulled over for no license plate. I go 25+ mph all the time when on a clear road and haven't had any probs yet.
01-24-11, 10:19 AM
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Another link I forgot to mention was the Electric Bicycle Laws page on Wikipedia. It's not complete but gives you some places to go to get the right information.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws
-Peter
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws
-Peter
01-24-11, 10:53 AM
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This will still use gas (albeit very little), and may cross the line into being classified as a moped where you live.
https://www.bikeengines.com/index.htm
I've never used their products, just came across them a while back.
https://www.bikeengines.com/index.htm
I've never used their products, just came across them a while back.
01-24-11, 12:27 PM
#42
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Rather than a 48volt 20Ahr battery, I think that two 36 volt 15Ahr batteries in parallel would work better - better balance, with redundancy, and a lower top speed, which will still get you to 20 mph but will encourage a bit more pedalling. With a nice efficient motor like a NineContinent. And putting it on a faired recumbent will definitely help with both efficiency and comfort, and keep you dry. I have done 40 miles on one 48V 15Ahr pack, no problem, with moderate assist. Perhaps you could charge at work as well. The inexpensive Sun EZ-Sport CX is a nice ride and good for converting, being cromolly. The packs sit nice and low under the seat, with a mid rack, and the motor is good on the front - a 20" wheel. Leaves lots of room for luggage. I have two of them, which you can find around 700Cdn. now and then. I run twin Ping packs on mine, 48V 15Ahr. and I've done an easy seventy miles, in total comfort. Whether its Bionx or any other motor, its all about how much battery you can comfortably carry, with good balance on the bike, and aerodynamic efficiency.
03-15-11, 07:11 AM
#44
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Help choosing and electric bicycle
I posted some info on batteries that you may find helpful:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...=#post11690705
You are welcome to contact me if you have any questions. We are an ebike dealer in Mass. Our phone number is on our website.
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...=#post11690705
You are welcome to contact me if you have any questions. We are an ebike dealer in Mass. Our phone number is on our website.
Last edited by pietzo; 03-15-11 at 07:15 AM.
03-21-11, 11:26 AM
#46
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then I would politely ask what it costs them if I make an extra pot of coffee on a day when I was too tired because I drove to work instead of biking.
03-28-11, 12:48 PM
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Ebay
I went through ebay and got a 500 watt motor with a 20 ah lifepo4 battery. This seems to fit my 24 kilometer trip ok. At first, I could go back and forth and back again before running out of energy. After 3 years, my battery needs charging at the end of each run. It was far less expensive than Bionx. I carry the battery in a trailer. I find if you get the right amp-hour fit of battery, the regenerative braking comes secondary. On your trip I would suggest a 30 amp-hour battery. I got both the motor and battery for for under $800 by ordering directly from the China Factory.
03-28-11, 02:17 PM
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For $650 I sell a 36v 500w motor kit with a 36v 20ah battery that will give you 20mph at 25 miles distance.
Pm me if anyone's interested.
(that includes shipping to USA, a little bit more out of the country)
Pm me if anyone's interested.
(that includes shipping to USA, a little bit more out of the country)
