Firedog91902

Powell,
So far the Eplus performs well. No power cut offs. It rides smooth with surprising speed. A couple times, the throttle didn't respond on the first press but engaged on the second. It's always after slowing down and/or using the brakes. I assumed it was just a sofware delay since the throttle is suppose to stop when either brake is touched.

The battery shaped bar meter is full and the SOC is 100% after an overnight charged. It goes to empty after 5 or 6 miles (20 mph on the flat with moderate pedaling). The digital SOC on the display agrees. Still the bike will go at least another 5 miles under those conditions with the battery voltage holding above 33v. I wish I had an easy way to independently measure the remaining working capacity of the battery after all these years. If I switch the display to PWR, full throttle, the display shows 200 to 700 watts as you change the drive mode from 1 to 9.

So the electronics actually measures the amp hrs used and then calculates SOC% ?. Is there any way to read amp hrs instead of SOC%? Does the SOC calculation adjust for battery degradation due to age and number of charge cycles. I don't understand how it can show SOC = 0% and I can still go?

Firedog91902

I mounted 2 Makita 18V tool battery to the bike with at simple AL bracket and the Eplus's water bottle lugs. I used the mounting connectors from a 2 Makita tools. The Makitas were wired in series to give 36v (nominal) and then wired in parallel to the NiMH 36v (nominal) in the front hub. I also included a 300amp switch, just in case I needed to separate the Li Ion battery from the NiMH and the rest of the E plus. BTW, the second battery connector behind the seat is wired directly to the battery connector that attaches to the front hub battery. For test purposes, std. spade connectors work fine to connect the Li Ion to the E plus's connector.

I only had time for a brief ride, but I was happy with the preliminary results. The PWR setting measure only the watts provided by the NiMH battery and it was 100 to 150 watts less than the same conditions without the Li Ion battery assisting. So the Li Ion Makita battery is sharing the load.

These Makita batts are very old and very used. I do test later with fresh ones.

wrandyr

My understanding is that you can force a recalibration of the SOC display by running the motor until you get the LVCO error. In practice, this is awkward because the system then shuts itself down until it is charged. I have done it by going up a steep hill near home when the battery was getting towards the end of a charge, but I can't say I noticed much difference. I suppose you could do it on a stand, but it would take some time to run the battery down if the motor was that lightly loaded.

Firedog91902

Wandry,

I built a test load to discharge the battery in the shop. I used a couple old 375W movie floods which draw 3.7 to 3.1 amps as the battery goes from 42v to 30v. Average ~3.4amps. I got 8.5ah to LVCO.

I increased the load with by adding a 250W heat lamp to get a 4.5A average and got 7.5ah to LVCO. Both test were more than I expected from 5+ year old NiMH D cells.

Unfortunately neither test fixed the SOC problem, but did show that the SOC went to zero with 75% of the power still in the battery.

I tried 2 other SOC resets after searching how other bikes do a SOC re-calibration.
1. Ride bike until SOC=0. Wait 1 hour. Charge to full. Wait 1 hour. Charge to full again.
2. Turn on the display then hold the on button for 30 seconds.
Neither reset worked. i think I'll just have to give up on the SOC display.

BTW, my charger is the original, but doesn't behave as the label says. Turn on- red LED solid(stays red). Connect to bike, Yellow LED is solid. After few minutes, yellow flashes 1/sec, fan comes on. The yellow flash speed doesn't change so I don't know whether it is the slow or fast. I have yet to see the yellow turn green. If I leave it a long time, both the yellow and red turn off. I can't image that could be my problem, but ...?

I just got 2 new Li Ion batteries from Amazon for my add on battery https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I chose these 4.5ah batteries because they have 3 cells in parallel instead of the usual 2 for the same AH. A little bigger, but they should produce more amps and apparently they do. 1.5 hour charge time on my old Makita 18V charger.

Now, does this bike haul . I live in hills. One devil hill slows my wife and I to 3.5 mph on our tandem and me to 4.5mph solo. The E plus with the Makita's in parallel climbed it at 18mph with only a moderate assist from me. 29/30mph on the flat, not pedals.

I do some range and other test next week on my E plus Makita hybred.

powell

wrandyr,
that is correct - you must run hub battery until LVC off so the chip on hub electronics can register new values for SOC which will make SOC bars more accurate.

powell

firedog,
I like your EPLUS - you like keeping your stuff clean thats for sure, looks brand new.
Running two different chemistries in parallel is not good idea in general.
I would not go into basic electricity stuff but those 2 chemistries have vastly different internal resistances.
Good that you install switch so you can run them seperately. Do you install diode between?

Firedog91902

Powell,

No diode is needed. I put the switch to prevent one chemistry from charging the other when parked. Usually the NiMH will charge the Li Ion with a few watts since the OCV of 30 NimH cells is slightly higher than 10 Li Ion through out most of its discharge cycle. Because charging is not 100% efficient I would waste ~20% of those few watts. If charging were 100% efficient it wouldn't matter as long a either chemistry doesn't exceed the charge voltage maximum of the other.

Of course, if the 2 chemistries are connected in series, then big trouble. Nothing really to do with with actual chemistries, but as you point out, unmatched internal resistances and unmatched capacities. If the capacities of series connected cells of any kind become unbalanced, weak cell may be driven negative and further damaged. Use different chemisties in series? Forget it, it will never balance.

Charging parallel connected batteries of two different chemistries is also a very bad idea. We all want to charge our batteries to the maximum possible. The full charge, NiMH procedure, would really mess up a Li Ion battery and visa versa.

But....., discharging 2 series connected batteries with 2 different chemistries, even different AH capacities, works just fine as long as both chemistries are happy with the voltage limits set by me or the electronics. I try to stay between 33 and 40 volts although I'll allow 30volts to help me climb the final hill after a long ride. Interestingly, when the parallel batteries reach LVC off, the connection between the 2 batteries is cut and the LI Ion has no load either. I continue to be amazed by the E+'s sophisticated electronics.

During discharge, the 2 chemistry batteries are self balancing. They have to be, their voltage is the same. As one chemistry depletes, it shares less of the load and the other chemistry provides more, until they both, together, reach the cut off voltage. So, the new Li Ion supplied 4.5ah at the same time the old NiMH supplied 8 to 10ah. Actually the 4.5ah Makita in parallel improves range more than just the 4.5ah it supplies. With two batteries sharing the load, their discharge rates are cut significantly which improves the output capacity (AH) of both; especially the NiMH.

In my first post I dreamed of being able to transfer the power train from the E+ to my Santana tandem and back as needed. Dumb idea, mostly because I don't want to mess with the Santana's well tuned 27 speed drive train and everything is so damn heavy. So, I got a 800W Chinese front wheel hub kit and installed it on the tandem. I powered it today with just 2 of the 18v 4.5ah Makita type batteries in series. (I plan to use 2p2s, maybe 3p3s, since there is lots of room on a tandem frame) Wife and I only rode 4/5 miles. It was fast and fun, great power. This is the wrong forum for e tandem talk. I'll post more in the right spot.

anonimojones

Hello guys, I'm new to this forum and to ebikes in general. Sorry if this post is in the wrong place.. I picked up an E+ on Craigslist today hoping that I could eventually convert to lifepo4. Unfortunately it did not come with a charger or the LCD display controller. Anyone have parts/spares i could buy off of you? I spoke to Ric Ruggerio & he can build a controller for $400, or reset a used one for much cheaper. The charger would be a three prong female that looks proprietary. Is there an aftermarket charger that anyone knows of? 36v NiMH. Thank you! I can be emailed at anonimojones@gmail.com or texted at 818.220.7690.

Firedog91902

Anonimjones,

The OEM NiMH charger is 36v 2.6amps. It's badged with EMS# 11057-001, but I doubt it was design from scratch for just the E+. It has 3 leads. Red, Black, plus a blue one that connects to a thermistor in the battery pack and stops charging if it gets hot. It's likely a standard NiMH charger except for the connector. I think any charger close to those specs would work fine. The D cells can handle a little higher charge current so 2.6-3.0 amps should work.

The battery is probably zero volts if it hasn't seen a charger for a while. They can be sometimes be revived but you shouldn't spend a lot on E+ stuff until you know you have a good battery.

Good luck with the bike. I hope you find a controller display cheap.

anonimojones

Firedog,

I appreciate that information. I understand what you are saying, unfortunately I haven't been able to find a connector that seems remotely like the original. If i could even find a bad charger with a good connection, i could hack a new one. I suppose Ill just keep posting to these forums until i find someone with spare parts.

Thank you!

Firedog91902

Anonimjones,

I'm pretty sure the charger for the E+ was made by Schauer. The same enclosure is used for several of their Lithium and SLA chargers. I can't find a NiMH version still available. It looks like the pic.

Here's a chargers that should work fine; just a little slower. It comes with it's mating connecter (not the E+ one).
Smart Charger (1.8A) with 3 pins Plug for 36V NiMH / NiCd Pack - UL Listed

I can't find a source for the E+ connector, but it's a trivial matter. The contacts inside the connector mate fine with standard spade lugs. You can connect with the spades for charge testing and then change to more standard suitable connector later.

I see from you phone #, you must be in SoCal. Next time you are near San Diego, come by with your bike and I'll take a look. We could plug it in to my charger. You would get a chance to ride a working E+ and see why they are worth fixing.

powell

connectors used on EPLUS are Delphi brand

powell

HI all EPLUS owners.
I have reached 17 100 kilometers on my converted EPLUS.
It works just fine , glitches on powering up were definitely caused by faulty tactile switches of display/controller.
Also random cut offs were caused by falling tactile switches when POWER UP switch randomly closed.
Still hope to meet new owners here.

anonimojones

Thank you both for your help. I was able to locate a factory charger and got my eplus up and running flawlessly! Looks like I can hold off on that conversion for awhile.

wrandyr

anonimojones, are there any more chargers available where you found yours?

powell

Firedog,
I am very glad your EPLUS works just fine.

powell

I use Cycle Analist as you can see from schematics of my conversion.
It calculates Ah used .
Back to Eplus drive -
yes hub electronics /you can call it BMS but it is not right/ chip PIC register charge going into NMH hub and register discharge also. I guess SOC is displayed based on discharge count compared with fullcharged count .
Cycle Analist is wonderful device which display many parameters - Whs, Ahs, kilometers, voltage, amps, charge cycles, etc. It does it using voltage of batt, current measured by shunt , wheel magnet,
Of course it costs for the reason - designed and bulit in Canada , no crappy China "technology"
I bought all those bargain China brand "meters" , was only waste of money. Celllog is rather reliable however if you buy spare ones to replace irratic ones.

powell

My EPLUS is still going strong.
I have just reached 17,500 kilometrs!!!
To all EPLUS owners - display/controller , exactely switches on it will cause you problems sooner or later. Poor quality tactile switches will fail causing random cut offs.
Simply they will close randomly causing cut offs.
Initially I couldnt trace why I was getting those cut offs.

e_biker

Hi folks. I'm an E+ owner with a bike that has been out of commission for a long time. Today I attempted to recharge the batteries with a variation of method suggested elsewhere. It seems like the batteries may be to far gone to accept a charge even by this method. The charger shows a solid yellow light. Where do I go from here to get this bike operational again?

e_biker

Powell. you pm'd me, but because I am a new member, and don't have 10 posts, I can't read it. Thanks.

powell

As I can see on your picture you connected all OK to revive battery.
yOU SEE once one of more cells goes into reversed polarity there is very little chance to revive 30 cells in series.
I had such case when I tried to help fellow Eplus owner here in my city - with no result.
You for sure know about Rick Ruggiero former production manager of EMS ,he still has Eplus parts for sale.
About 2 years ago he wanted US$1000 for almost new front wheel plus shipping. For sure he does not refurbish Eplus batteries I asked more than once.
Tell me,
is it 1000W , what model?
miro13carr

e_biker

1000 watt

powell

where are located in USA?
Did you think about selling your Eplus?

wrandyr

e_biker- Do you have a voltmeter? If so, what charge do the batteries have now? Also, verify that the charger is actually delivering some voltage once the fan comes on. I have 3 chargers, and only one of them works correctly. Like Powell, I am looking for parts (mainly chargers) if you decide to give up on it.

e_biker

Yes I have a voltmeter. I will test today. Actually, the fan does not come on. Light stays solid yellow. After the computer went into sleep mode over a year ago, the battery hub and charger continued to go through the proper charging cycle. After about a year that stopped. Assuming I have to rebuild the battery, what is the tear down process for the hub? I have already removed the core electronics from the hub. It seems that to remove the battery harness, I first need to remove the nut on the rear side of the hub and then tap the core out of the bearing. Would that be correct?