tpreitzel

Hypothetical:

Distance: 1500 miles
Allotted Time: 10 days
Avg. Speed: 30+ mph
Registration: None
Legality: Don't Care

Design an electric, gasoline, or hybrid powered bike for the least amount of money and capable of being repaired on the road.

"Other Betterbikes™ offer speeds up to 30+ mph and distances exceeding 100 miles. This increased range and speed (compared to conventional e-bikes) results from streamlining + extra batteries. Reclined seating reduces the wind drag which is by far the biggest hurdle to faster e-bike speeds."

crackerdog

Just motorize a velomobile. Why someone would want to go 30 mph for only 5 hours a day, I don't know. Why not be more efficient and go 20 mph for longer each day?

Sangesf

First question is..
Who the heck would want to travel 15 HUNDRED miles on an ebike..
You're better off using a motorcycle.

Azreal911

I think a used 50cc scooter can easily achieve that and would be cheaper too even with registration and licence. Heck even a moped would get you around. For an ebike to do that it's not going to be cheap and would cost 2-3 times more than what these dino juice bikes can do. That's not including that motorized velomobile cause then the costs skyrocket.

Sangesf

OP, what would be the rationale of your proposal?

dougmc

In many states, e-bikes are limited to having enough power to go 20 mph, not 30 mph, nevermind 30+ mph.

Yes, you can make up the difference by pedaling, but on level ground it takes over 3x as much energy to go 30 mph as 20 mph, and if you're that strong of a cyclist -- skip the electric bike entirely, just get a touring bike.

Ultimately, if you go through such a state and a cop sees you doing 30 mph on flat ground without pedaling (or even with pedaling if he knows the physics behind cycling) -- you're going to get a bunch of tickets -- unregistered vehicle, unlicensed vehicle, no turn signals, no brake light, illegally small wheels (for a motor vehicle), no inspection, no emissions test (if they're required for all motorcycles, even electric ones), no insurance, no motorcycle endorsement on your license (if you don't have one), etc.

Sangesf

That's why I asked him, the reason for this particular question..

tpreitzel

Any such tickets would almost assuredly be thrown out if challenged as a civil case in court. How does one prove illegality unless the biker was breaking a specific traffic law, i.e. running 30 mph in a 25 mph zone? A bicycle (likely tadpole) would literally have to be impounded to prove such a case. Oh, officer, I was just peddling extra hard ... or simply remain silent.

tpreitzel

The title of the thread, e-bike TRAVEL, which implies some distance, i.e. ~ 150 miles per day, in order to advance the state of transportation for people not desiring the regulation ** of their mode of transportation. I actually should open this thread to gas conversions with 32cc * - 50cc motors as well. Furthermore, I should have titled this thread, The Cannonball Run for Electric Bicycles.

* However, well tuned 32cc motors can easily exceed 35 mph.

** States can try to regulate and enforce all they want ...

Sangesf

I hate to tell you, but MANY a time, people WILL get tickets and DO go to court and DO lose, especially in front of a judge.
EVERY state has some kind of regulation when dealing with over 30+ mph on a vehicle. They CAN and DO, regulate AND enforce those laws on a daily basis..
Try riding 35mph on an electric bicycle here in Florida or New Jersey or Hawaii and see how far you get before you're bike is impounded and you get 3 or more tickets and $1500+ in fines.

tpreitzel

If I were living in Florida or New Jersey, I'll guarantee you that I'd ride an e-bike 30+ mph and look forward to my day in court IF I was obeying traffic laws when stopped. When a vehicle is powered by assist from the rider, it's literally impossible to convict the rider IF the rider is obeying traffic laws when stopped without impounding the e-bike. I'm quite sure some judges will attempt to secure revenue for their jurisdictions by any possible means. Fight such corrupt judgments both legally and personally.

Anyway, let's focus on the technical aspects, not the alleged legal ones.

Sangesf

IF the rider is obeying traffic laws is the key...
IF you are traveling more than 20mph on an ebike, YOURE NOT OBEYING TRAFFIC LAWS..
They don't need to impound the bike, all they need is the radar info..

If you want to go 30+ mph for 150 miles per day, all you need is 20 - 40ah Thundersky Batteries and charge one time during the day and once at night.
The batteries weigh about 65lbs. and cost $1650
A 60v 2000w capable motor will cost about $400
And a controller and kit will cost about $200

So for about, $2250 you can add on to any sturdy framed bike and achieve what you're proposing..

OR for the same price, buy a 150cc scooter and be more comfortable and not have to worry about recharging.

30+mph and 150 miles at a time are kinda unrealistic compared to a gas scooter..

I personally ride 45 miles a day on my cruiser ebike and it's not exactly the most comfortable.

P.S. I hope you're not going to try to bring up that "right to travel" crap.

jethro56 

I think you'd be running at 1500 watts on average. So 1500*5 = 7500 watt/hrs. 110 watt/hrs weighs .75Kg. (7500/110)*.75 = 51 kg of batteries cost $3500 U.S. + $400 Bicycle + $700 Kit = $4600.

Sangesf

I cut the price of batteries (and weight) by halving the AHs needed by charging up once during the day...

Metal Man

This can't be true. My understanding is motor size is limited to being able to go 20MPH max under certain conditions without peddaling. That wouldn't mean that you can't go over 20MPH. I go 50 MPH down hill on my road bike.

crackerdog

Use a recumbent. They are more comfortable for long distance and can be faired much more easily. Maybe a streamlined BOB trailer for the batteries. All of this technology exists so is not breaking new ground.

Sangesf

Sure, that's true most of the time.
(And yes, if you're pedaling along, I don't think a cop could argue that you were under motor power only, however, if you have a single speed bicycle, and you're "pedaling" at what looks like a slow tempo'd pace and you're doing 35, I think the cop can figure it out....)
Well every state has different laws...
Thr majority of them just say a combination of human power and motor..
Some say pedal along with motor, some say motor only, etc..
In certain places in Europe, they only allow pedal assist and only up to like 15mph..

dougmc

The police could very well impound it in such a case -- after all, it's an unregistered motorcycle with none of the things that the law requires of a motorcycle, it's not safe or legal to ride. (Unlike a motorcycle, it could be pedaled, but the police may not trust you to do that, and really, it may be too heavy to realistically pedal any distance.)

This sort of thing has happened to people before, and the police have thrown the books at people for this, citing them for everything they could think of, with fines totaling several thousand dollars.

If you're going 30 mph on level ground and aren't Lance or somebody similar, it's almost guaranteed that your motor exceeds the 20 mph power limits (assuming that 20 mph is the magic figure where you are). And if you're not pedaling at all, you only have to be going 21 mph, though the police probably wouldn't notice until you got significantly over the 20 mph figure. The laws that differentiate between an electric bicycle and a motorcycle and the requirements for a motorcycle are "specific laws" and the police are perfectly willing to look them up and cite you as appropriate. You may escape notice 90% of the time ... but it only takes one cop to totally ruin your trip and hit you with fines that approach the cost of your ride.

If it's a tadpole, beware ... the laws may explicitly state that an electric bicycle only has two wheels, and if it has three wheels it's something else. You'll want to read the laws of the states you're going to travel through carefully.

Civil case? This would not be a civil case -- it would either be a criminal case or an infraction (depending on the particular state.)

Sangesf

Actually not a civil case, but most states classify those kinds of things as a "non-criminal traffic violation".
I've noticed the OP has capitalized the word "TRAVEL" numerous times, which usually means he's one of "those" that wants to push the envelope on the "right to travel" issue..
You're "right to travel" IS guarrenteed by the government, it's just the METHOD of travel, that isn't.
Either the original post is a troll, or the OP wants to try to get away with riding an electric bicycle from Florida to New York (or some similar distance -{re:1500 miles** - ) without a license OR he's trying to figure out the BEST way to accomplish the original "hypothetical" goal as an experiment in state's laws concerning bicycle travels.

He never directly answered my question as to WHY the 30+mph and 1500 mile, except to say, to help those who want "de-regulation" of "TRAVEL" (again in caps).
Not going to happen... The regulations are there for the majorities safety.
If you really want to travel 1500 miles in 10 days, ride a regular bicycle at 15mph (easy to do with a multi-geared bicycle without much effort) for 10 hours a day.

P.S. If you really wanna push the envelope, just buy an electric bicycle that's speed limited to 20mph (like one of the company's "Extreme Scooter" electric bicycles) and do that "travel" and if you get pulled over by a cop, just give him the spiel about HR727 that states that an electric bicycle with a top speed of 20mph (unassisted) is still a bicycle and that EVERY state MUST regulate it AS a REGULAR bicycle.

15rms

This forum leads us to the question. Why are allowing this government to do this to us? When are we going to get tired of paying such huge taxes just to finance the police to make a criminal out of us?

Fairmont

It's too soon for that kind of endeavour.

Wait a few years until batteries and motors are better developed for such a purpose.

Fairmont

BTW: Most people who I know that get popped by the cops don't realize that you need to look like a bicyclist, not a motorcyclist, if you want to ride an Ebike.

I know guys who wear a full face DOT helmet and wonder why cops think they're riding something motorized.

If you don't want to attract attention, don't attract attention.

Sangesf

My problem is that my ebike looks like a small chopper style motorcycle, but I'm fully compliant with the legal status of ebikes here in Florida.

tpreitzel

Wrong.

If I can peddle a bicycle upward of 40 mph (As a weightlifter, I'm capable), I can certainly peddle an electric bicycle 20+ mph since it has peddles. Prove to a judge in court than my governed 20 mph e-bike is "illegal". Answer: you can't without impounding the e-bike. Not only is any federal law regulating e-bikes unconstitutional (therefore invalid since it violates Article 1, Section 8), it's also patently ludicrous because the top speed of this bogus law is less than a speed readily attainable by solely human effort. For the 3rd time *, as long as traffic laws are obeyed, e.g. traveling 30 mph in a 35 mph zone, prove my e-bike is illegal simply because I was traveling 30 mph in a 35 mph zone. Prove my e-bike is illegal in a court and you can bring radar confirmation if you'd like. Again, this thread is NOT about your alleged legality of traveling 30 mph on an e-bike. This thread is about the technical merits SOLELY. Get it? Good because further comments on the alleged illegality of traveling 30 mph by bicycle or tricycle powered with partial human assist will be considered trolling in this thread.


* I'll repeat as much as necessary ...

tpreitzel

As far as ready availability and lower prices, I agree. Advances in technology are creating the possibility of riding longer distances in relative comfort without any licensing or registration whatsoever.