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  1. #1
    Interdimensional Spy Apache Thunder's Avatar
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    Bike hub with both left hand and right side threading...

    I'm looking for a bike hub that has left handed threading on the left side of the hub for a left hand freewheel and threading on the right side for a right hand freewheel.

    I currently have a bike converted to electric. However the side mounted motor (it's chain driven) uses the right side freewheel so I can't put the pedal chain on so I can pedal the bike since if I left on the multispeed freewheel and just added the motor to the mix, it would spin my pedals. (that and when I do pedal unpowered, I would be spinning the motor which would make it harder to pedal then it needs to be). So right now it's all electric and no pedal power available.

    The adapter that came with the kit that would have allowed two single speed freewheels on the same side was crap and didn't fit the freewheels very well and the second freewheel would just unscrew off the adapter when I tried to apply power. This is either because the threading on the adapter isn't matching well with the freewheels or that there is too much threading on the hub and doesn't allow enough free threading on the first freewheel for the adapter to hold on to and it just pops off when the motor spins. So I tossed that to the bin.

    I need to get a new rim hub that has threading on both the right and left sides of the hub. The threading on the left side needs to be in reverse to that of the right side since the motor will be moved to the left side and will drive a 18tooth freewheel (if I can find one. If not I'll settle with the 16tooth ACS south paw freewheel I have managed to find). This setup would then allow me to reinstall the 6 speed freewheel and derailure so that I can pedal the bike when I want to. (especially in times when I have to charge the SLA batteries which can take up to 6-8 hours depending on the depth of discharge).

    The thing is, I haven't found anyplace that sells them. I found one site but it's asking $59 for it and that's too high for my budget. I would like to find one in the $25-40 price range if at all possible. It would be even better if I can find one prebuilt to a rim. (I would be willing to pay $100-$120 for one if it already had a rim built around it)

    I know some models of Currie eBikes have rims with the "bi-drive" hubs already built on a rim. but they are 26inch wheels. My road bike uses 700c size rims/tires.

    Last resort would be to buy a Currie rim and remove the spokes and rim and install the hub to my 700c rim with it's spokes. But that would mean paying more + additional work. In all likely hood I would have to take the hub to a bike shop to have the rim built around it as I have no experience building bike rims and such. So having to disassemble a Currie rim and send the hub off to a bike shop to get a 700c size rim built around it may end up being my best option at this point.

    Unless you guys can say for certain it would not be overly difficult to build a rim from scratch? The most trouble I would see my self having is making the rim "true" so that it doesn't wobble. The best I've done in that regard is adjust the tension on a few spokes on my current rim to remove the wobble it developed after a spoke broke off awhile back when my bike chain derailed behind the freewheel. Fortunately it seems the other spokes aren't damaged and the wheel is holding up. (even after 2-3 weeks post ebike conversion with the 30+ pounds of SLA batteries and motor that the rim has to hold up) So now that the wobble is fixed it should last longer. Not that it would matter since I plan to have the whole rim replaced for the new hub I'm looking for.


    So any help would be appreciated. To summarize, what I'm looking for is this:

    1. A bi-drive hub with or without 700c size rim built around it that will accept 700x38c size tires.
    2. 18tooth Left-Hand freewheel. If one does not exist or can't be found, I will get a 16tooth that I found on Amazon.

    Also, will the Currie side mounted motor bracket work on non Currie bikes? (aka my road bike). The current motor bracket is not a perfect fit as I have to tilt the whole wheel a bit to the right to keep the freewheel aligned with the motor gear to prevent chain coming off. I've already have a couple chains snap off from bad alignment.

    The bracket may work with my motor as the screw spacing appears to be the same. It's mainly how it will mount on the bike frame that I'm concerned about. The bracket is only 9 dollars + shipping so if I buy one and it turns out to not fit, it would not be that much of a loss really.
    Last edited by Apache Thunder; 01-04-12 at 11:58 PM.

  2. #2
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    Why not just buy a rear hub motor instead of a chain drive motor?
    Problem
    Solved in one step.

    Oh and dump the SLAs and get some lithium batts!

  3. #3
    Interdimensional Spy Apache Thunder's Avatar
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    Oh yes, I'll just spit out $400+ somehow and buy new batteries and hub motor. Nope don't have the money for that. I do plan on getting new batteries but it's going to be a while before I can save up for them. The motor isn't going anywhere.
    Last edited by Apache Thunder; 01-05-12 at 09:16 AM.

  4. #4
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    Motor kit will cost you $250 and keep your batteries.. DONE!
    when you want to upgrade to Lithium.. $300 will get you a 20mph/30 mile capable setup...

    What's wrong with that?

    P.S. You can also get hub motor kits even cheaper than $250, if you so desire..
    The $250 would make your life A LOT easier..

    If you want a "cheap" ebike, then that's what you'll have, cheap.

    I say, if you already have the batteries and want an EASY upgrade, a hub motor kit is the best way to go!

  5. #5
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  6. #6
    Interdimensional Spy Apache Thunder's Avatar
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    Flip Flop hubs won't work. The threading on the left side is right handed and the freewheel/fixed gear would unscrew off the hub if power was applied to it on the left side. Flip Flops were meant to be "flipped" when a user wants to use the other gear. Each side was intended to be used on the right side and both can't be used at the same time. Thanks though.

    Also if it turns out to be cheaper to get a hub motor, I might get one. But that's only if there's one at a decent price that can perform as well as my side motor does. I will not be getting direct drive style motor hubs. It's geared or nothing.

    If I can find an already assembled 700c rim on a motor hub (and must be a geared version) I would look into getting it. Otherwise I would be better off just getting the two sided hub and keeping my existing motor. Because if I get the hub motor, I now end up with a side motor that I don't have a use for and I can't really return it. Though I only really paid about $180 for my ebike kit (which came with throttle, speed controller, motor with it's mounting bracket and a 16tooth freewheel and extra wide chain. It was dirt cheap compared to the hub motor kits and so far I've
    only found hub motors that go around the price that my entire e-bike kit was sold for.

    There's nothing wrong with the motor setup I have now. I probably just need a wider chain. The chain it came with isn't long enough and will wait for the seller that I bought it from to either provide one separately or let me know what kind of chain it is so I can buy another one. I don't know it's size specifications. I do know its wider then a normal BMX chain I got at Wal-Mart. The alignment issue I was having is causing the motor gear to grind away at the chain links causing it to eventually brake off (the chain is having no issues staying on the freewheel, it's the motor gear that's the issue). The wider chain won't have this problem as there is more space. (the motor gear is not straight when lined up with the freewheel which causes the BMX chain to grind on one side of the motor gear.

    Once I get the wider chain, the alignment issue will not be problem anymore. So...any one know what kind of chain it might be? (the BMX chain I'm currently using is a 1/2 inch x 1/8 in size. Or 1.3cm x 0.32cm if you use metric. I need one wider then that.

    EDIT: I found that a 1/2 x 3/16 chain is wider. I will try that one and see if I get better results. I've also heard that these chains are known to be stronger. (in perticular the KMC 415H is the brand known for extra strength which I found on ebay at a good price) They are heavier, but since the distance from the motor and freewheel is so small compared to a normal pedal crank and freewheel, the difference won't be noticeable.
    Last edited by Apache Thunder; 01-06-12 at 02:04 AM.

  7. #7
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    Your first mistake was buying/using a chain drive motor on a non-recumbent bike.

  8. #8
    Interdimensional Spy Apache Thunder's Avatar
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    Ok if all everyone is going to do is point things I did wrong instead of trying to help me, then I'll go somewhere else. I chose what I put on my bike and I'm sticking with it. If all you can post is how I did it wrong instead of trying to answer the original topic at hand then just don't bother.

  9. #9
    Administrator Allen's Avatar
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    Contact Harris Cyclery. They specialize in esoteric bike needs. Phil Wood too, but Phil's hub will cost big money.

  10. #10
    Interdimensional Spy Apache Thunder's Avatar
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    Thanks I'll check them out.

  11. #11
    Cyclist storckm's Avatar
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    Wouldn't the lockring make a fixed-fixed flip flop work either side? If it's good enough to skid the rear wheel, it should be good enough for drive power.

  12. #12
    put our Heads Together cerewa's Avatar
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    You seem to have a misconception about flip flop hubs. one side is designed for a standard freewheel while the other side is designed for a fixed cog. the fixed cog has a lockring, left threaded, so it is suitable for stopping a brakeless fixed gear bike, using pedals and chain (which involves as much strain and stress as pedaling forward).

    You really can just flip that cog around and power it in the "wrong" direction with an electric motor. The right side will then correctly fit a freewheel.

    this is the type of wheel you want:
    http://www.amazon.com/WHEEL-MASTER-7...981106-6788306
    Some awesome folks who are working to give Haitians the ability to manage their safety and their lives:
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  13. #13
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    ^What he said.

  14. #14
    Interdimensional Spy Apache Thunder's Avatar
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    Well yes, but since it's fixed, the wheel would spin the motor when unpowered. Thus my bike won't coast very well at all.

  15. #15
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    Ok, let's try this again...

    SELL that motor and buy a hub motor.. Trust me, will save you the headache of trying to Jerry-Rig something to get it to work..

    Places to sell that motor...
    eBay.
    Craigslist.
    Etc.

    You can buy an entire motor kit for $159 on eBay...

  16. #16
    Senior member Dan Burkhart's Avatar
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    There is such a thing as BMX hubs with left hand threads for left threaded freewheels, which also exist, but I have yet to see hubs threaded on both sides with right and left threads on the aftermarket. I have seen e-bikes with such hubs, notably a cheap Schwinn with a chain drive from the motor.
    It was a very cheaply made steel hub, and I would worry about finding a replacement for it.
    I had an identical bike on my shop floor for a couple of years before I sold it, although it had the Mongoose brand on it. I ended up selling it for less than my cost to a guy with the same bike for a parts bike.
    Gearhubs demystified and other cool stuff.


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  17. #17
    Administrator Allen's Avatar
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    Shimano Integer FF system freewheel crank. They are hard to find but anything is possible on the vintage market. Mount the motor so it is inline to the drive chain (the right side). You can coast, and with the freewheel also in the crank the motor will never be turned backward. You will need a few chain tensioners to keep the slack out of the chain as it goes around the cog on the motor and back to the hub.

    You will also get the added benefit of the motor utilizing the hub's gearing.

  18. #18
    Interdimensional Spy Apache Thunder's Avatar
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    The seller I got the kit from did have a "mid-drive kit" that had a motor with a different bracket that would have allowed such a set-up. The kit included the motor, mounting bracket and freewheel crankset. But at the time I did not have the money to buy it as it was slightly more expensive. The motor that kit had also had a freewheel on the motor gear so that pedaling unpowered won't turn the motor. I may try and get those parts individually since the motor used in that kit is identical to the one I got in the side mounted version. The only difference is the additional hardware mounted to the motor gear box and the motor freewheel. In-line mounted motor would be much more efficient and would allow me to chain gearing options so it's definitely something I may try if I can get the parts together.

  19. #19
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    1991.jpg

    Staton-inc. has freewheeling sprocket that would work on the left hand side.

  20. #20
    Asi
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    An option is to make a hub for your needs: get a chunk of aluminum, make a hole in it and on each side make an ID for bearings. Mill down the exterior center part and outer parts to make a flanges for spokes, then thread the outer exterior on each side with the appropriate pith and diameter (this is the hard one: to find a lathe with that pitch used for freewheels), then drilling the holes for the spokes

    Anyway, with a technical drawing and a lathe this could be an afternoon work. The important thing is to start from inside of one side (grab the chunk of aluminum from the exterior) and do the bearing ID and the hole inside and an OD (of whatever diameter) and then flip the side grabbing by the OD you just cut earlier and do the other side, and then center carefully from the ID on both sides so you don't mess with concentric of inner with outer profile. - or give it to a local lathe machining guy to make it. (cause there are al lot of little gimmicks like making a chamfer first for threading, a chamfer for the bearings, maybe some other surfaces inside for a seal)

    The axle can be made on lathe too (or get an axle with bearings, measure the distance from bearings and the OD of those bearings and make sure that will be the dimensions for the lathe machined hub).

    Or you can study to get a hub with most of the job done for you and so it remains only the problem with the left side threading, (i would suggest a hub with disc brake. the flange and the OD of the lowest part in that disc side, must be sufficient for a thread to put into)

  21. #21
    Interdimensional Spy Apache Thunder's Avatar
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    I lack the hardware and know how to do something like that.

  22. #22
    Asi
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    Ok, then I'll emphasis the part with "give it to a local lathe machining guy to make it"

    Do you know any machine shop with a lathe where you can give it to cut it the way you need? (you should ask specifically if they can cut a LEFT-hand thread 35mm x 1.058mm and depending on your luck (and location on globe) with imperial units it may or may not have that, 1.058mm pitch = 24 tpi threads per inch - imperial thread pitch with a metric diameter)

    Do you have access to a left side freewheel with a left hand thread? if not then this thing is worthless
    (and then I'll say than you can reverse a freewheel by threading it from the other side that usually have a ridge/flange not to do so, that can be grinded down, and now the freewheel spins in the right direction but the thread is still in the loosening way, so here comes in handy a lockring of some kind and some loctite and some pins/keys to lock that thing there - this of course uses a normal flip-flop hub with free-free config, as in: right hand thread on both sides of course)

    Anyway if my calculations are correct, then almost any disc brake hub have enough material for a thread to put into (since the thread for freewheel is 35mm and the bolt pattern for disc is 44mm diameter minus the diameter of the hole=> at least 38mm are left, but it would be nice to have a wider area and a complete circular area to have a thread)

    You would need a 35mm x 1.058mm lefthand thread so about 36mm of material is enough(the thread is exactly 35mm so if it's 35.3mm instead as i suggested is still good enough).

    Find a shop that can cut a thread, get a caliper and get a hub with that diameter in the picture at least 36mm. Mount the appropriate freewheel (with "wrong" direction and lefthand thread - that's hard to find i guess) that i assume you have and you're set to go.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Asi; 01-09-12 at 07:37 PM.

  23. #23
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    As MAbman already noted, you need this hub
    Last edited by C.P.; 01-14-12 at 08:21 PM.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by C.P. View Post
    As MAbman already noted, you need this hub
    The OP's original contention was that he didn't want to spend a lot.
    If he's gonna spend $90 on that hub, it kinda detracts from what he wants...

    That's why I originally said, he would be better off with a hub motor instead..
    But obviously he wants to go with mid-drive..

  25. #25
    Interdimensional Spy Apache Thunder's Avatar
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    I was thinking about using a internally geared hub. But finding one with left hand and right hand threads will probably be impossible. Most have cogs instead of freewheels and the one I know that does have threading is a tiny bit expensive. The main benefit I see with using the geared hubs would be that I could change gears with my existing motor and avoid all the complexity and extra parts a normal mid-drive would require. The thing is, I would need to find a decent quality "adapter" to thread on two freewheels onto one side of a hub. My kit came with one, but it's junk. The motor driven freewheel would just end up popping off the first freewheel. Anyone know any "better" versions of these? Main thing I'm worried about with the geared hubs is that they use a special bolt and "clickbox" on the drive side of the axle. I won't know if that part will get along with my motor's mounting bracket or not. Though it looks like it should.

    Anyways the seller that sold me the electric kit now has a hub with left and right threading and is being sold for roughly $30 which I will definitely go for if I can't find a geared hub+freewheel extender I can use without too much effort.

    As for what freewheel to use, I found a 16tooth left hand freewheel. But does using a right handed freewheel work on the left side? With normal multispeed freewheels, there is only threading half the way into the freewheel and only on one side. So it would have to be flipped over to be put on the left. This would mean it would spin in the wrong direction.

    But most BMX freewheels including a few I already have (I have an 18tooth freewheel currently installed and a 16tooth freewheel that came with the kit) have no obstructions on them that would prevent them from being screwed on the opposite side without being flipped and thus would freewheel in the correct direction.

    Bolts can be flipped over and still be screwed on. So I think the same can be said for freewheels since they screw on in a manner similar to bolts. I could just use one of my right handed freewheels. Since they have no flanges or obstructions on either side, they can be screwed on from the opposite face of the freewheel then normal and it would not have to be flipped over to screw onto the hub.

    As for finding a bike shop to build the wheel around it, I found one in my area within 30 miles. I'm hoping they will provide affordable rims. Labor will probably run me $30-50 on the conservative side. I don't know what prices the rims go far. I'm not looking for an elite super true rim that would run me $200+ The rims my bike currently has came with my bike and it's a sub $100 Wal-Mart bike. So I know they do exist.

    I'm very light. I only weigh about 130 pounds and have never went past 160 pounds. (it's been awhile since I've been over 140 pounds actually) and the batteries and motor probably only add up to an additional 40-50 pounds tops and some point I will ditch the SLA batteries for lithium batteries. So the rims/spokes don't need to be super durable either. Heck my el'cheapo Wal-Mart rear wheel poped a spoke when my bike chain derailed behind the freewheel and some small adjustments to the surrounding spokes to pick up the slack from the missin one, it doesn't wobble very much anymore (it's very slight and does not produce an impact on my riding experience that I can feel).

    I've been running on the wheel for nearly 4+ months after the lost spoke and maybe 4+ weeks after having the bike converted to electric and having to carry the heavy SLA batteries and it's still holding up. I guess it helps that the terrain is mostly flat where I live and I don't ride it off-road either. Though I need to hurry on replacing it. The rim is now missing a bearing on the right side and I don't know what the long term impact of this will be. It's rotating without any resistance so right now it's not obstructing rotation. But I'm sure running on a wheel with a missing bearing on one side would be kinda not good.

    Thanks for all your suggestions and input though.
    Last edited by Apache Thunder; 01-15-12 at 12:59 AM.

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