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  1. #1
    Jerry the Spinner
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    Charging BionX Battery While Riding

    Since BionX has no way of extending the battery without voiding the warranty. I set up a 10Amp 12V NIMH battery connected to an DC/AC 400MA converter. I then plug in the BionX charger to the BionX battery. Please see attached.

    I was able to charge the BionX battery with this configuration when not riding. I was was wondering if any one had any ideas if this would work while I am riding and using the BionX assist. Since my cfoomute is 12 miles each way on New York City streets. It takes me around 75 to 90 minutes depending on lights and traffic. If it does work maybe I could get a 25 to 35% in battery life.

    This is a very cheap alternative. since the battery cost 125 dollars and DC/AC converter cost 30 dollars.
    On a side note. I carry this battery to heat my Gerbing heated gloves and heated shoe inserts.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Bicycle Commuter from New York City.

  2. #2
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    Purely speculation on my part, as I have NO understanding of how these things work, but the batteries have a regeneration mode, so technically it's possible to recharge them while riding. I wouldn't think there woule be a big difference in them being recharged through the regeneration mode versus being plugged in to something.

  3. #3
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    I have a 12v 60AH battery with a 200w inverter with my 36v charger connected to inverter to charge my 36v battery WHILE I'm using the bike/battery...

    It effectively doubles my range.... (15ah battery turns basically into a 30Ah battery)...
    Or from 540wh into 1080wh (540wh extra)...

    So with 12v 60ah battery I get an extra 540wh...

    Figure using that equation...
    20ah 12v will get you 180wh worth of battery
    40ah = 360wh

    If you use the battery for other stuff at the same time, figure even less.

    What kind of 12v battery are you thinking of using?
    EDIT: I JUST noticed that you said 10amp... You meant 10 amp-HOUR battery..

    If you used that and JUST for the inverter setup and nothing else, figure you'll get 114wh extra (12v*9.5ah-leaving .5ah for safety sake) and then with inefficiencies of the conversion/inversion process of 80% you're looking at an extra 91.2wh (114wh*.8) or 2.5ah at 36v. (Or an extra 5 miles, give or take).
    Last edited by Sangesf; 01-09-12 at 06:16 PM.

  4. #4
    Junior Member Trex55's Avatar
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    Has anyone ever tried using a "front hub" light generator to charge the bike batteries....or have two batteries on a switch, charging one of the batteries as you roll down the road, and the other to power your ride? I know that I may be saying enough to show my ignorance... But, to me, it's an interesting concept. There is an ebike, (which looks like a motorcycle), on youtube, that charges the batteris when you peddle...so if you had one generator on the front hub and one connected to your crank.....? Also there is a four seater "car" (more like a go cart), that uses four rowing machines to power it... you never need to charge the batteries, (youtube, somewhere in Oregon). The vehicle looks like the YMCA on wheels...fun video to watch!
    Yeah, well you know...that's just... like your opinion man! -The Dude- 1998

    I am currently riding a Yuba Mundo v.1, Huffy beach cruiser, Schwinn (Walmart) Hybrid, and a 07 Road King Harley Davidson...

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  5. #5
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    Has anyone ever tried using a "front hub" light generator to charge the bike batteries....or have two batteries on a switch, charging one of the batteries as you roll down the road, and the other to power your ride?
    That will work, the only problem is you will never get back what you put in. If it worked well every car , truck, train , refrigerator would have something like that. In ANY system there is always some loss from friction, resistance in wires etc.

  6. #6
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    Two of those little bike light generators will only give 12v .5A or 6w put that into a buck converter for 36v, you get less than 2w... (You pedal with about 100w of power, so 1 to 50 conversion... Basically useless!)

    If you have one hub generating electricity it has a LOT of resistance...
    Again, if you pedal at 100w, then you get back about 20w... Now not only is it still useless.. Your pedaling HARD for very little return... (i.e. You could just pedal along with the regular motor and extend your range better, than having to pedal against the resistance of the generating hub... Again, basically useless.)

  7. #7
    Jerry the Spinner
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sangesf View Post
    What kind of 12v battery are you thinking of using?
    EDIT: I JUST noticed that you said 10amp... You meant 10 amp-HOUR battery..
    .
    The battery I am using is from
    ONLYBATTERPACKS
    12 V 10000ma NiMH
    10 Cell PN-T10010S
    Bicycle Commuter from New York City.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryTheSpinner View Post
    The battery I am using is from
    ONLYBATTERPACKS
    12 V 10000ma NiMH
    10 Cell PN-T10010S
    Yeah, like said before...

    If you used that and JUST for the inverter setup and nothing else, figure you'll get 114wh extra (12v*9.5ah-leaving .5ah for safety sake) and then with inefficiencies of the conversion/inversion process of 80% you're looking at an extra 91.2wh (114wh*.8) or 2.5ah at 36v. (Or an extra 5 miles, give or take).

  9. #9
    Jerry the Spinner
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    Thank you for all your help Sangesf. I will give it a try next week.
    Bicycle Commuter from New York City.

  10. #10
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    My understanding is that regeneration gives you back about 10%, depending on your riding habits and the terrain you drive on.
    Devinci Millenium Roadie with the Flight Deck, wireless OCMC100W Cateye ODO, Garmin 660 GPS,
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  11. #11
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    Keep in mind that you can also set up a system to charge the Bionx 36V battery with a 36V 16ah LiFePO4 battery, simply by using compatible connections from LiFePO4 battery to Bionx battery charging port. I've been doing this for a year now. I go 200+ pounds and live in a fairly hilly area, and I've ridden 60+ miles with the setup on my LWB recumbent, pulling 350 watt hours from the LiFePO4 and leaving a bar or two on the console battery gauge.
    There is a thread on Endless Sphere where I got the info to set mine up.

  12. #12
    Senior Member 15rms's Avatar
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    exbikin I have been following this concept for a while now and am thinking on using the same set-up with the new Bionx 48 volt system. I would like to put the Bionx on a Lightfoot Ranger LWB Recumbent. I have a few questions for you if I may? Since I am close to your weight I am wondering if you are using level 1 to get the 60 miles or a higher level of assist? Are you plugging in your second battery at the start of the ride or after the first battery is mostly drained? Has the additional battery caused the Bionx system to fail in any way?

    Now about your bicycle of choice. Do you find your recumbent uses more energy from the bionx because you don't have the ability to put your weight into the peddle? I have ridden a Bionx on a DF bike but not a recumbent. Do you find the assist on level 1 to be enough to comfortbly cruise at a slower speed but a higher mileage ride?

    Any feedback you have would surely be appreciated.

    Thanks

  13. #13
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    Ok, here's the thing... You can't give out numbers on a bent and compare it to a regular bicycle.. It's not the same animal..
    Also, if you're giving out numbers and comparing apples to apples, it HAS to be NO pedaling..
    I could strap 24 AAA alkaline batteries to my bike and pedal the entire time and get 60miles and only use 1/2 of an AH.. And say that's the mileage you can get from a 36v 1Ah battery set...
    The numbers have to be consistent throughout the discussion... Same type bike, same Relative power, close in Ah range and no pedaling....

  14. #14
    Senior Member 15rms's Avatar
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    Ok Sangesf thanks for clearing that up.

  15. #15
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    My point in mentioning the additional battery was merely to show that it was technically possible, not to ignite another discussion about the relative benefits of bents vs DF's. Quite frankly I don't give a RA what someone rides.
    I use level 1 almost all the time, and my use of the system would probably drive others crazy, as I stay on level 1 on really steep hills, and just spin with a low gearing combination. On moderate hills I usually use level 2, maybe 3. My system is the old I2C PL-350 on a Rans V2. I've got the strain sensor adjustment dialed in for a smooth steady ride feel. I don't use the system without pedaling except on a long downhill when I use regen for whatever little benefit it gives. Regen braking is great. I've not had anymore problems with the extra battery than I had without. The Bionx system will sometimes just shut down out of the blue, but it does that sometimes without the extra battery. We also have the same system on a Rans Screamer tandem, which my wife loves.
    I burn a couple of bars off the console battery gauge before I turn on the LiFePO4. I haven't noticed any difference in turning it on sooner or later. I can't compare the ride experience on a bent with that on a DF. Never done it. Level 1 on my V2 overcomes the extra weight of the unit and the friction of the direct-drive hub. Some have compared it to having a tailwind all the time. The Ranger is a nice bent.

  16. #16
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    That's a bit harsh of a reply...
    Good thing I have a thick skin...
    Anyways..
    It wasn't a "discussion" about recumbents vs any other bike..
    It's more to the point of pedaling vs non pedaling....
    (and yes a bent makes a huge difference in the numbers too, but I digress..)

    Adding a second battery (of same voltage and close AH) in parallel will make quite a bit of difference, but the OP is using a battery of a different voltage and already has it and a converter..
    He doesn't want to spend any more money, would be my guess...

    My above calculations are gonna be the best case scenario for this particular purpose...
    (IF the OP could get a much larger 12v battery, he would get a lot more range, but then again, more money)

  17. #17
    Jerry the Spinner
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    Thank you Sangesf for all your help. I did try it this week and therecharging did work well. The only issue I had was I had to wait for thebattery to go down to 35% before turning it on. It seems the Bion X chargercalculates how much battery is used up and will only charge that amount. Forexample when I started charging the battery when I started with a full charge.The charger went off after a couple of minutes. When I started charging afterusing up 35% of the battery. The charger kept charging until it recharged 35%and then turned off. I do believe I gained around 25% on my ride. Note: Whenstooping by red lights and dealing with New York City traffic. The cost for theabove setup was 150 dollars. I also use it to power my Gerbing 12Volt glovesand boot insoles.
    Bicycle Commuter from New York City.

  18. #18
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    I got lucky because for $180 total I got a 12v 60Ah lifepo4 battery and a 250w inverter and was able to hook up a 36v charger..

    I rode the bike 25 miles on a 7ah 36v lifepo4 battery by using the inverter setup... I used up the 12v battery and still had 3Ah left on the 36v battery. (I could have gone another 7 miles)..
    So instead of only the normal 14 mile range, I (would have) had 32.

  19. #19
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    Jerry, Is that a special Bionx charger? (If so, did you get it from Bionx?) I have the Trek battery charger & it looks completely different. The one you are using looks much more compact than mine & less fragile.

  20. #20
    Jerry the Spinner
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    This is a new Trek charger. The Model is HP1202L3. This is not the charger the Trek FX+ came with. My charger went bad and I ordered a new charger. It seems this is the new charger Trek is selling. The charger is lighter bit does not have an on/off switch.
    Bicycle Commuter from New York City.

  21. #21
    Senior Member GTALuigi's Avatar
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    are you referring to this setup?

    http://endless-sphere.com/forums/vie...art=15#p283929

    I'm actually hoping some one can show me the schematics, so i can make a cable like that for my BionX as well

    There was another topic some where else in that forum also that shows you can ride while charging with the 2nd battery back plugged in, and it actually provides more torque and range

    or it's a simple solution for those with a aged semi-dead BionX battery, and don't want to pay $1000+ for a replacement BionX battery

    or does anyone know where i can buy one of those cables?

    thanks


    Quote Originally Posted by ezbikin View Post
    Keep in mind that you can also set up a system to charge the Bionx 36V battery with a 36V 16ah LiFePO4 battery, simply by using compatible connections from LiFePO4 battery to Bionx battery charging port. I've been doing this for a year now. I go 200+ pounds and live in a fairly hilly area, and I've ridden 60+ miles with the setup on my LWB recumbent, pulling 350 watt hours from the LiFePO4 and leaving a bar or two on the console battery gauge.
    There is a thread on Endless Sphere where I got the info to set mine up.
    Last edited by GTALuigi; 02-29-12 at 03:36 PM.
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  22. #22
    Senior Member 15rms's Avatar
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  23. #23
    Senior Member GTALuigi's Avatar
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    ah! so that's what it's called NC4MRX (male) for the side that we want to use with a LiFePO4 pack

    http://www.markertek.com/Connectors-...X.xhtml?NC4MRX

    thank you!

    now i just need to figure out which pins are + & - and what the other 2 pins do, probably 1 for ground and the other for the stats to the control panel
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  24. #24
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    My system is a pre-2009 I2C. I wired the connector up positive to pin 4, negative to pin 2. The whole thread on Endless Sphere can be accessed by searching "Adding LiFePo4 to Bionx System". The folks at Markertek are helpful really and fast.

  25. #25
    Senior Member GTALuigi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezbikin View Post
    My system is a pre-2009 I2C. I wired the connector up positive to pin 4, negative to pin 2. The whole thread on Endless Sphere can be accessed by searching "Adding LiFePo4 to Bionx System". The folks at Markertek are helpful really and fast.
    Thanks ezbikin! appreciate the info provided.

    i don't expect any differences, as BionX remained pretty much the same until the new models that came out after 2nd half of 2010
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