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Old 02-15-12, 06:02 PM   #1
John Phoenix
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Difference between Ping and These batteries?

In case it brings you to a menu page I'm looking at the 48 volt 20 ah models

Here is the Ping for 600 bucks. http://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/t...osphate/Detail

Here is one from Alibaba.com - 200 to 350 bucks http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/46...hargeable.html

If I could get this one, and if it's just as good as the Ping, It might be in my price range. I'd like to hear from some folks who bought this one if possible.

Or

320 to 384 dollars http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/52..._Electric.html

Or

440 to 450 dollars http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/35...m_battery.html

Anyone know anything about these packs sold from Alibaba? I know Ping has a good reputation, but I can't afford his prices. Thanks.
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Old 02-16-12, 01:00 PM   #2
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First off, Ping Rocks! QA is there, Customer Service is there..
Second.. That $600 does not include shipping.

Third...
RUN, FAR, FAR AWAY FROM ANYTHING ON ALIBABA..
1.) It's barely a 50/50 chance, you MIGHT get a real company..
2.) THEN a 50/50 chance that you actually GET the product.
3.) THEN a 50/50 chance the product actually is what's advertised...
That's about a 12.5% chance of getting a decent product..
4.) If not, then you're out your money with NO RECOURSE!
(Alibaba is riddled with fake companies, bad items and alibaba always sides with the seller)

PLUS.. although the first link only showed $250-$300 that does NOT include shipping which will be at least $150 and then you still have to worry about items 1-4 above.

If $600 is out of your price range, get a smaller batter and pedal.. LOL..

If you give us an idea as to what you need it for, we might be able to help you better..
What speed do you need?
What kind of motor?
What amperage is the controller rated for?
Etc.

If you really NEED a 48v 20Ah, expect to pay a minimum of $530..

Questions, comments, queries?..
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Old 02-16-12, 06:59 PM   #3
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Cannot agree more. Well said Sangfest
RUN from Alibaba.
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Old 02-16-12, 07:06 PM   #4
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Hi!
As far as Alibaba items goes... I have bought from there many times (never batteries) and not had any problems (except slow shipping). Not sure about Alibaba's recourse for bad sells... may not be any.
If you feel more comfortable buying from e-bay, many of the same 'lower' priced batteries that you see on Alibaba are also on Ebay. Just go to e-bay and type "48v20ah" and you we see many of the same batteries that are also on Alibaba. However, I don't put a lot of stock in ebays buyer protection either.
Here is one for 385.00 +shipping
http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V-20AH-LiF...item35b6bac7f8
This battery is from Conhis motors of China... and Conhis is also on Alibaba. I have bought e-bike items from Conhis w/o problem.

Last edited by Pedidelic; 02-16-12 at 07:10 PM. Reason: addition
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Old 02-16-12, 07:31 PM   #5
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A lot of e-bikers own and rave about Golden Motors bought from an importer/retailer... however, Golden Motors is a Chinese corp that will directly sell (one item purchases) to you on Alibaba. They will sell you motors, entire bikes, batteries, etc... Sign up to Alibaba and then send a price request to Golden Motors directly. I found Golden Motors to charge high shipping rates but you may get a good price. Try them and see.
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Old 02-20-12, 04:50 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedidelic View Post
Hi!
As far as Alibaba items goes... I have bought from there many times (never batteries) and not had any problems (except slow shipping). Not sure about Alibaba's recourse for bad sells... may not be any.
If you feel more comfortable buying from e-bay, many of the same 'lower' priced batteries that you see on Alibaba are also on Ebay. Just go to e-bay and type "48v20ah" and you we see many of the same batteries that are also on Alibaba. However, I don't put a lot of stock in ebays buyer protection either.
Here is one for 385.00 +shipping
http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V-20AH-LiF...item35b6bac7f8
This battery is from Conhis motors of China... and Conhis is also on Alibaba. I have bought e-bike items from Conhis w/o problem.
Thanks, I concur.

There is a lot of bias against Alibaba it seems. It may be justified then again, it may not be. that's why I asked about the batteries themselves not the middleman who they are being sold through Alibaba.

I buy batteries from China and some through Alibaba all the time.. just not for the e-bike. I buy batteries for my Electric Cigarette. We discuss which batteries/companies are good and which are not.. Thats what I was asking.. seems I did not get many answers from folks who actually have experience with the batteries, they would rather bash the middleman.

It works like this for electronic cigarettes: " Hey Fred, you tried these 3.7 volt 18650 2000 mah Li-ion batteries from China? (sold from Alibaba)" " Yeah Bob, those 18650's are good. Thats the AW brand and are high drain IMR's .. But there are these cheaper knock off AW's which are also 18650's and they are just as good - but this company over here, stay away from..."

Lots of large US resellers of China batteries for electronic cigarettes do use Alibaba. It's not the middleman Alibaba you have to watch out for.. it's the company and it's products you want to deal with that you have to have a heads up on. You guys might know this if you bought other things from Alibaba besides e-bike batteries and talked to more folks who use them all the time.

Yes, I do NEED 48 v at 20AH cus i'm tired of replacing SLA's and nothing short of 28 mph will do it for me. It's a standard 35 amp controller with an Ampedbikes 750 watt front hub motor. Nope, cannot afford the Pings at 600 bucks not including shipping. Ping like the AW brand has a reputation. AW got it's rep by making good protection circuits and putting them on Panasonic batteries. Now they handle safe chemistry batteries like IMR's - only God know if AW actually makes them. I suspect Ping has a rep in much the same way and it's very likely that there are batteries out there that are proven just as good but cheaper.

Again, i'd appreciate any feedback from folks who have actually had experience with these companies I listed. Thanks Pedidelic for actually understanding the question and trying to answer it.

Last edited by John Phoenix; 02-20-12 at 04:56 AM.
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Old 02-20-12, 08:00 AM   #7
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just make sure you pay by credit card or PayPal.
I am not sure if Alibaba uses PayPal?
I would never ever bought by sending bank transfer=no protection

Last edited by powell; 02-20-12 at 08:07 AM.
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Old 02-20-12, 09:17 AM   #8
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Hi John P!

I have a Ping and as you say it is expensive.

I have NEVER heard any positives on e-bike batteries made by other makers. Would be nice if just one other person could attest to having a great lithium battery built by anyone other than Ping... but I have never read that. People rave about Ping and degrade the other makers. I have read on other forums about non-ping batteries have problems like broken wires, bad BMS's, dead cells, and some say made with reclaimed batteries.

I am not so sure I believe it all. Sometimes I think some of these detractors do something to screw-up their battery and then blame the maker. A lot of e-bikers break apart the pack and re-stack/re-wire the batteries to fit inside the bike frame and probably short out components in the process. Sometimes there may actually be a problem with the battery or BMS. Even Ping admits that sometimes things go wrong with his batteries... says so in his instruction pamphlet.

I do believe that Ping gives GREAT personalized service. When I have written to him I get QUICK replies. He answers direct questions and made changes to my orders without problems. Seems like you are dealing with an individual and not a conglomerate. Even wished me a Merry Christmas! (add: I have also gotten GOOD replies from other e-bike companies)

I plan to purchase a non-ping/lower-priced battery next time from a reputable Chinese seller like Conhis Motors or Golden Motors but I will be looking for "free shipping" or low shipping price to bring the entire purchase price within reason. I want to test the difference myself. I cannot believe that Conhis or Golden, massive bike (also wheel chairs, car motors, etc...) manufacturers, sell great bikes and motors coupled with crappy batteries... doesn't ring true.
I may lose some money but I am sure the only way I will really know is to try another maker myself. I may also be pleasantly surprised!

Best Regards

Last edited by Pedidelic; 02-20-12 at 09:36 AM. Reason: addition
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Old 02-21-12, 12:39 PM   #9
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Actually, I've been one of the lucky ones.. 99% of the (duct tape) batteries I've bought off of eBay have worked flawlessly and/or up to spec...

The last one I got was from YXM / Doj(something) on eBay.. It was rated for 20Ah and consistantly put out 21Ah.. (Unfortunately when my ebike got stolen, that particular battery "disappeared" when it was recovered).
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Old 02-21-12, 03:52 PM   #10
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I have two Headway battery packs from BMSBattery.com and two Ping packs and I would say the Headway packs are as good as a Ping, and easier to maintain if any of the cells die, as it is easier to just replace one of the 16 cells in it. I built one from scratch using a Signalab BMS from Ping, and another has the stock BMS from BMSBattery.com, and I would say the latter is the better BMS for the Headways, as it is geared to 58.4 volts (48nominal) on the terminal high voltage charge level - the Signalab BMS needs over 60 volts to balance properly, which is what Ping sets his chargers to. That's a bit high for the Headways for longest life. The Headways nominally have a better C rate, but in practise I have found that they actually sag more voltage-wise than the Ping pack (same amp hours on the two types) under the same load. It's nice to know I can just drop a replacement cell in, if one goes south on the Headway pack, as I built it myself and know how. It is quite a bit easier. They cost about the same, shipped from China. Your next step up is LIPO but I've been avoiding those for safety reasons, or a manganese type which has lower lifespan but is probably more energy dense than the Pings or the Headways. Or A123 from emissions-free.com (Cellman on Endless Sphere) also in China which is both safe and long life but expensive, but C-Rates and robust. You'll save a lot buying from China. The A123 is definitely the elite plug and play battery at the moment, from Cellman, but costs about twice as much as the Pings. But if you want 60 amps from a 15Ahr pack for a big direct drive hubby that's the way to go. Safe too. Another good thing about the BMSBattery BMS is that you can charge and discharge through the same leads, as there is no "C minus" on the BMS, just B minus and P minus - one from the charger to the BMS, and one from the BMS to the Pack minus. The Signalab has two sets of leads, one for discharge and one for charge. This depends on the setup of the particular BMS

Last edited by chvid; 02-21-12 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 02-23-12, 06:38 PM   #11
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Maybe you can find the Headways local. This is my local fellow.

http://rebirthauto.com/headwaycell38120s-1.aspx

Electric bike shop up the road.

http://www.dggreenproducts.com/

You may find a local dealer that will help you and ask around, there may be a local custom battery pack builder near you !
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Old 02-25-12, 02:05 PM   #12
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My best suggestion is buy the 48v 20Ah pack from YXM/DAOJI on eBay..
$529 SHIPPED!
It's actually 21Ah because they use 3Ah cells..
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Old 03-27-12, 10:48 AM   #13
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http://endless-sphere.com/forums/vie...p?f=31&t=37401

see that 14 page thread about how not to order batteries..... from mr sangesf himself..
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Old 03-29-12, 07:00 AM   #14
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http://endless-sphere.com/forums/vie...p?f=31&t=37401

see that 14 page thread about how not to order batteries..... from mr sangesf himself..
That forum is bad news. I won't post on there, no way.

Ypedal, you are a mod there right ? Ouch !

I was a member for a short time and another member started claiming I was a member named november something then the thread was locked until the claim was checked out.

Still locked and I emailed you several times and no response.

The owner of the forum at ebikes.ca answered my email and claimed he has nothing to do with the forum and to email you.

Would you care to remove the false claims about me on your forum ? ? ? ! ! !

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Old 03-30-12, 11:55 AM   #15
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please send me an email ypedal at ypedal dot com , i know who you mean by november guy, but i canot remember what post this was .. ( i deal with a lot of stuff...... sorry.. i do apologize ..)
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Old 03-31-12, 08:56 AM   #16
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please send me an email ypedal at ypedal dot com , i know who you mean by november guy, but i canot remember what post this was .. ( i deal with a lot of stuff...... sorry.. i do apologize ..)
Thank you for taking care of this !
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Old 08-01-15, 04:15 PM   #17
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I would recommend to anyone the headway cylindrical cells. They have a very high charge/discharge rate and ruin coil having low ir. You can charge a 15Ah battery in as little as a half hour! Of course the Farr you charge and discharge any battery the shorter the lifespan will be. But a max 2c charge rate is the best I have seen in lifepo4. And an instantaneous 10c discharge rate with 3c rated. These are the only batteries I will use until I find a better technology for the price.
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Old 08-05-15, 11:35 PM   #18
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Check out Luna. I think they have the best prices and batteries available at the moment. They are also in the US. I don't know them personally or work for them. That is just my opinion after much research.
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