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  1. #401
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    I've started ordering components for e-bike #2. This e-bike will include all my current enhancements and will be the model for the prototype battery carrier. The rate at which I will be able to install all the modifications will be much, much faster since I made all the errors and fixes on my first e-bike.

    If you've been following the news, relationships with the Middle East have gone from bad to worse. The IMF had predicted a doubling in oil prices within ten years (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZmJK...ure=plpp_video) but with the Fed's new buyout the doubling in oil prices could happen much sooner per this article: http://peakoil.com/business/bofa-see...and-190-crude/

    The majority of the oil geologist believe we will realize the downward movement in the oil production bell-shaped curve in 2014-2015. We have been in the "easy oil" production decline since 2005-2006 and instead on a plateau with the unconventional oil (tar sands, shale oil, etc.) filling in the discrepancy. All the major oil fields around the world are in decline. The majority of them started production in the 1950s and 1960s.

    What does this all mean? Our current vehicles will need to have mpg's in President Obama's 2025 efficiency standard in the next two years. This is impossible.

    If you've been thinking about getting an e-bike or purchasing the Papamotor kit as many on this thread have done. You're running out of time.


    If we don't make changes to our use and abuse of energy, Mother Nature will make it for us.
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  2. #402
    Senior Member CigTech's Avatar
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    Yes I have a plan to get the bike up and running. But I am on the fence about hub or mid drive motor. I like the power and speed of the mid drive. And to cut down the battery needed the smaller mid drive motor has the power of the Hub due to gears used, along with a higher top speed. If I go with a 1000w hub I would need a 48v 30ah batter to get about 40 miles range and top speed of 30mph. But If I go with the 450W mid drive motor. I could get 84 miles with a top seed of 37mph with a range of 60 miles with a 48v 20ah battery setup.

    any ways it getting to be winter here so I'm going to think about this more and get the parts. Then take the winter to build it up. I am looking at this motor kit and this battery.


    http://www.gngebike.com/450wbrushless.htm
    http://www.joyfay.com/us/48v-20ah-li...e-scooter.html
    Last edited by CigTech; 09-15-12 at 01:51 PM.
    May your feet keep move'n with the wind to your back.

    CigTech

  3. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by CigTech View Post
    Yes I have a plan to get the bike up and running. But I am on the fence about hub or mid drive motor. I like the power and speed of the mid drive. And to cut down the battery needed the smaller mid drive motor has the power of the Hub due to gears used, along with a higher top speed. If I go with a 1000w hub I would need a 48v 30ah batter to get about 40 miles range and top speed of 30mph. But If I go with the 450W mid drive motor. I could get 84 miles with a top seed of 37mph with a range of 60 miles with a 48v 20ah battery setup.

    any ways it getting to be winter here so I'm going to think about this more and get the parts. Then take the winter to build it up. I am looking at this motor kit and this battery.


    http://www.gngebike.com/450wbrushless.htm
    http://www.joyfay.com/us/48v-20ah-li...e-scooter.html
    Interesting. Please keep us informed on your build. Do you have an existing bicycle you plan on installing the kit on or will you have to purchase a new bicycle?


    If we don't make changes to our use and abuse of energy, Mother Nature will make it for us.
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  4. #404
    Senior Member CigTech's Avatar
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    I have a Schwinn Empier XL road bike with 700C wheels. But I'm thinking about getting a MTB for the build.That range of 60 miles is taking in the wind and small hills I have on the commute. At 60 miles thats about 80% of the on wind and no hill range.
    Last edited by CigTech; 09-15-12 at 05:45 PM.
    May your feet keep move'n with the wind to your back.

    CigTech

  5. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by CigTech View Post
    I have a Schwinn Empier XL road bike with 700C wheels. But I'm thinking about getting a MTB for the build.That range of 60 miles is taking in the wind and small hills I have on the commute. At 60 miles thats about 80% of the on wind and no hill range.
    Do you currently ride during the winter months? Do you plan riding the e-bike during the winter months? How well are the streets on your commute snowplowed?


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  6. #406
    Senior Member CigTech's Avatar
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    They keep the main roads clear but the back roads not so much. By main roads I am talking highways. You have to remember that about 55% of my commute is on county back roads. But as we know batteries don't like the cold.

    So I'm thinking of a way to keep the batteries warm if the temp drops below 60 deg. I went to DeVry. Any ways that’s what I'm looking at right now. If I can keep the battery box at or above 70 deg then it should keep the range up to summer commuting. If you want to talk about my Heater Ideal send me a PM. I know your thinking of a e-bike shop. You am want the idea, l if it works.

    So I have to find the bike to convert and then get the kit and batteries. Then build a box to hold the controller and batteries and heater thing. Then rebuild the wheels. Wire the bike, and make it all work. No Problem, I'll get right now that. I think you’re rubbing off on me LOL
    May your feet keep move'n with the wind to your back.

    CigTech

  7. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by CigTech View Post
    They keep the main roads clear but the back roads not so much. By main roads I am talking highways. You have to remember that about 55% of my commute is on county back roads. But as we know batteries don't like the cold.
    Ping batteries are rated to operate in temperatures between -4 and 150 degrees Fahrenheit.

    Quote Originally Posted by CigTech View Post
    So I have to find the bike to convert and then get the kit and batteries. Then build a box to hold the controller and batteries and heater thing. Then rebuild the wheels. Wire the bike, and make it all work. No Problem, I'll get right now that. I think you’re rubbing off on me LOL
    Where do you plan on putting the battery box on the bike?

    Quote Originally Posted by CigTech View Post
    I could get 84 miles with a top seed of 37mph with a range of 60 miles with a 48v 20ah battery setup.
    Where did you get these figures? What's the max speed (assuming level pavement and little to no wind) you can maintain for the greatest distance with your intended kit with you pedaling?

    If you worked the morning shift you'd stand a better chance of the sun melting any ice on the roads. If you rode at night you could hit ice formed from the freezing of the day's snow melt.


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  8. #408
    Senior Member CigTech's Avatar
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    I have been emailing them for a week or so. I told them my gear set up and they said that it would do these speeds.

    18mph in 1st,
    21mph in 2nd,
    24mph in 3rd,
    26mph in 4th,
    29mph in 5th,
    33mph in 6th,
    37mph in 7th.

    Thats on the Schwinn with a 7 speed M Cassette. Now if thats is true then i like it. They also said I can return it if it does not come close to these speed.

    As for the Battery box and bike setup I'm thinking something like this
    bike setup.jpg

    I work the night shift and thats why I'm thinking I can only ride on good days in the winter. But we'll see. Last winter we had only a few days that it snowed.
    May your feet keep move'n with the wind to your back.

    CigTech

  9. #409
    Senior Member spirit733t's Avatar
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    hi all,

    some good news from me.. I should be able to buy the papamotor kit at the end of this month.. how exciting..
    heres my list of things to buy

    papamotor 1000 watt 48 V Platinum package.
    bike rack ( still not sure which one to get) - but it has to be able to befitted with p clamps, the Jannd expediion is good but expensive..
    rear torque clamp from ebike.ca
    shimano 6 speed freewheel from ebike.ca
    rear cargo box
    schwalbe big apple tyres x 2

    and I think thats it for the moment..

    really forward to this..
    Dont fill the pockets of the greedy oil men and women

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by CigTech View Post
    I have been emailing them for a week or so. I told them my gear set up and they said that it would do these speeds.

    18mph in 1st,
    21mph in 2nd,
    24mph in 3rd,
    26mph in 4th,
    29mph in 5th,
    33mph in 6th,
    37mph in 7th.

    Thats on the Schwinn with a 7 speed M Cassette. Now if thats is true then i like it. They also said I can return it if it does not come close to these speed.
    I would hold onto the box the kit came in.

    Quote Originally Posted by CigTech View Post
    As for the Battery box and bike setup I'm thinking something like this
    bike setup.jpg

    I work the night shift and thats why I'm thinking I can only ride on good days in the winter. But we'll see. Last winter we had only a few days that it snowed.
    If your handlebars look like the photo you're going to want a different bike. I doubt very much you could squeeze two 48v 20Ah batteries into the triangle of the frame and still have room to pedal. I think you'd better have a look at Kd5ete pictures of his frame and fitment of his 48v 20Ah battery (post #366 on page 15 of this thread), you'll see that he barely has room for one 48v 20Ah battery.


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    Be a part of the solution to Global Warming instead of a contributor.

  11. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit733t View Post
    hi all,

    some good news from me.. I should be able to buy the papamotor kit at the end of this month.. how exciting..
    heres my list of things to buy

    papamotor 1000 watt 48 V Platinum package.
    bike rack ( still not sure which one to get) - but it has to be able to befitted with p clamps, the Jannd expediion is good but expensive..
    rear torque clamp from ebike.ca
    shimano 6 speed freewheel from ebike.ca
    rear cargo box
    schwalbe big apple tyres x 2

    and I think thats it for the moment..

    really forward to this..
    It's about time, Spirit733t! Now all you have to figure out is how you're going to keep all your relatives from wanting to ride your e-bike.

    You can't fit 2.5" tires in your bike frame?


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    Be a part of the solution to Global Warming instead of a contributor.

  12. #412
    Senior Member spirit733t's Avatar
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    hi ,

    @ ebikeFL
    You can't fit 2.5" tires in your bike frame?
    I think I can, but I meant x 2 as in 2 tyres, does it make a big difference with having really wide tyres, I would prefer to get 2.0 because so is this more aerodynamic?

    can you recommend me a good rear rack, that can be fitted with clamps and is available in england?

    I found this cargo box, probably not as good as your cargo box, heres the specs..


    • Width: 10" /25cm
    • Height: 9" / 22cm
    • Length: 16 1/2" / 42cm

    will this be big enough for the battery and controller?

    http://www.parkersofbolton.co.uk/p-9...r-top-box.aspx

    will papamotor provide the tools to fit or remove the freewheel and the cranks?

    and yes it is finally good that I join you guys properly as a true ebiker..

    can you tell me exactly what papamotor provides in terms of the rear disc brake system? I mean disc? brakes pads? etc?

    how long do you think will it take to arrive, I will order it on the 28th Sepember.

    thats just leave for me to say.. yippee
    Dont fill the pockets of the greedy oil men and women

  13. #413
    Senior Member spirit733t's Avatar
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    hi again, one more question, so at the moment my chain fits around a 10 speed freewheel..

    will this be compatible on the 6 speed free wheel ?

    thanks again
    Dont fill the pockets of the greedy oil men and women

  14. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit733t View Post
    I think I can, but I meant x 2 as in 2 tyres, does it make a big difference with having really wide tyres, I would prefer to get 2.0 because so is this more aerodynamic?
    All tires are aerodynamic...rolling resistance is another issue though. Go with the Maxxis Hookworm tires and you won't regret it. Whoops, I forgot you can't fit the Hookworm tires on the stock Papamotor rims.

    If you want I can install the Papamotor hub motor onto a Sun Ringle MTX-39 rim for you and you'll need the same front wheel setup with MTX-39 rim as I have. It would be between $300 and $400 for everything including shipping back to you, the prices are estimates. Once you have this setup, you'll never have to worry about the rims and tires again. Just check the spoke tension once a month. If you don't want to go this route than go with the Schwalbe Marathon Supreme tires with Mr. Tuffy liners and thorn resistant inner tubes.

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit733t View Post
    can you recommend me a good rear rack, that can be fitted with clamps and is available in england?

    I found this cargo box, probably not as good as your cargo box, heres the specs..


    • Width: 10" /25cm
    • Height: 9" / 22cm
    • Length: 16 1/2" / 42cm

    will this be big enough for the battery and controller?

    http://www.parkersofbolton.co.uk/p-9...r-top-box.aspx
    You'll need the same rear rack as I've got but without the disc brake protrusions just regular extensions. The rack you have listed is probably tall enough but not long enough. Go with the cargo cache. If you want me to do the rims and hub motor, I can also setup the cargo cache for you but it'll be extra money to purchase all the materials and the extra shipping.

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit733t View Post
    will papamotor provide the tools to fit or remove the freewheel and the cranks?
    Yes, but I would get the freewheel removal tool that ebike.ca has listed. It's much taller so you can get a proper wrench on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit733t View Post
    can you tell me exactly what papamotor provides in terms of the rear disc brake system? I mean disc? brakes pads? etc?
    They send you everything including a narrow caliper. Have them send you the 44mm disc adapter and a few extra spacers. You'll want to use your stock brakes and brake disc. It will make your e-bike look more stock than a kit having two types of disc rotors and calipers.

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit733t View Post
    how long do you think will it take to arrive, I will order it on the 28th Sepember.
    It should take 10 days to two weeks. Just watch my two videos everyday and you'll make it through the waiting period.


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  15. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit733t View Post
    hi again, one more question, so at the moment my chain fits around a 10 speed freewheel..

    will this be compatible on the 6 speed free wheel ?

    thanks again
    You'll have to do the same thing SiXiam did which was to purchase a 6/7/8 speed chain. Here's the one I'm thinking about upgrading too: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...spx?ModelID=81


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  16. #416
    Senior Member spirit733t's Avatar
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    thanks ebikefl for the quick response,

    but the cargo cache that you have got is only available by shipping from the states,

    is the size of the one I gave a link to definitely too small to house the battery and controller.. the price of this one is good only 25 around 40 dollars max..

    I will get the better rims in the future, but I think it will be more cost effective for me to learn how this is done.. but thank you for the offer.

    just to confirm with you, I should be able to use my stock hydraulic brake system in the rear? is that correct?

    Dont fill the pockets of the greedy oil men and women

  17. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit733t View Post
    but the cargo cache that you have got is only available by shipping from the states,
    I can purchase it and ship it to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit733t View Post
    is the size of the one I gave a link to definitely too small to house the battery and controller.. the price of this one is good only 25 around 40 dollars max..
    Yes, I didn't even have to look at the specs. One glimpse of the picture of it on the rear compared to the size of the rear wheel told me it wouldn't fit the battery. You also have to remember you'll want the controller and other items protected as well. Last of all, you know the cargo cache works without a doubt because I use it. Money shouldn't be your criteria when having a secure, safe container for the Ping battery. The Ping battery is over $500 which should justify a more expensive container. The battery and the hub motor are the most important components of the kit. Protect and maintain them and you'll have a kit which lasts for years.

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit733t View Post
    just to confirm with you, I should be able to use my stock hydraulic brake system in the rear? is that correct?
    If you have the correct adapter (44mm) and make the necessary modifications, then yes, you should be able to use your stock brake system.


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  18. #418
    Senior Member spirit733t's Avatar
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    ebikeFL.

    hi again, the ping battery dimensions are at

    300x105x150 mm / 11.8x4.1x5.9 inches

    the box I linked to is at


    • Width: 10" /25cm
    • Height: 9" / 22cm
    • Length: 16 1/2" / 42cm


    is'nt this big enough in your opinion plus change?

    if you sent me the rear cargo cache with shipping here, how much would that cost please?

    and how would I pay you, paypal?

    excuse me for my stupidity but what is exactly is the 44 mm adaptor I mean which part is this please?

    thanks again
    Dont fill the pockets of the greedy oil men and women

  19. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit733t View Post
    hi again, the ping battery dimensions are at

    300x105x150 mm / 11.8x4.1x5.9 inches

    the box I linked to is at


    • Width: 10" /25cm
    • Height: 9" / 22cm
    • Length: 16 1/2" / 42cm


    is'nt this big enough in your opinion plus change?
    No, you'll barely be able to squeeze the Ping battery inside with hopefully some padding. Those dimensions are the outside dimensions of the container. If the inside of the container has another shape or contours inside then it will restrict the placement of the battery.

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit733t View Post
    if you sent me the rear cargo cache with shipping here, how much would that cost please?
    I don't have the exact cost but I'd figure around $100. I think I paid $70-$80 for the cargo cache. You're going to have to make the necessary modifications too before you can keep everything inside safely and securely. I've listed instructions and shown pictures in this thread. I can do it for you but it will cost more for the materials.

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit733t View Post
    and how would I pay you, paypal?
    Yes, PayPal would be the best option including what ever PayPal charges for their service.

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit733t View Post
    excuse me for my stupidity but what is exactly is the 44 mm adaptor I mean which part is this please?
    Remember the pictures I took of the two adapters I ordered from Papamotors? Here are the adapters and extra spacers...44mm adapters and spacers.jpg

    You only need one adapter but order two just to cover you if one happens to break. They're only a few bucks each.


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  20. #420
    Senior Member spirit733t's Avatar
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    hi ebikefl,

    ok I wanted to show you this picture of a top down inside view point of the cargo box I had linked to

    M-Wave Bicycle Rear.jpg
    I am interested in his as it seems the outer plastic is quite thin so most of the dimensions looks like it may cover the inside space of the box.. and for the price its quite good..?

    I am on a tight budget as I still have to help someone financially, so thats why I was hesitant in getting the cargoe cache that you have, in the long term future I will probably buy a your cargo cache, but now I just want to get things running in time for winter, then later I can go about making improvements when I have more money

    and yes I will be buying the tyres that you recommend..

    let me know your thoughts?

    thanks
    Dont fill the pockets of the greedy oil men and women

  21. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit733t View Post
    hi ebikefl,

    ok I wanted to show you this picture of a top down inside view point of the cargo box I had linked to

    M-Wave Bicycle Rear.jpg
    I am interested in his as it seems the outer plastic is quite thin so most of the dimensions looks like it may cover the inside space of the box.. and for the price its quite good..?

    I am on a tight budget as I still have to help someone financially, so thats why I was hesitant in getting the cargoe cache that you have, in the long term future I will probably buy a your cargo cache, but now I just want to get things running in time for winter, then later I can go about making improvements when I have more money

    and yes I will be buying the tyres that you recommend..

    let me know your thoughts?

    thanks
    That should work only I would put that rubber padding I listed earlier when SiXiam was looking at battery carriers on the bottom of the box. I would also install the rubber bumpers on the corners of the Ping battery as I noted earlier in this thread. You may be able to install the controller on the lid of the box too. Go for it.


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  22. #422
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    Spirit733t,

    You may want to read the reviews on Amazon.com about the M-Wave top case: http://www.amazon.com/M-Wave-122461-.../dp/B003BOEJC2

    The actual dimensions are smaller than advertised. It may still work for you though but it demonstrates my concerns that the actual dimensions are smaller. Here's what the reviewer said:

    3.0 out of 5 stars Smaller than advertised August 3, 2011
    By Henri
    Amazon Verified Purchase
    I just purchased this from Amazon, but I need to return it because it is too small for my intended use. The advertised product dimensions are 17 x 12 x 11, but the one I received measured 16 x 10 x 8.5. It was the difference in width that made it problematic. Otherwise, I like the design and it looks pretty nice. I wish I could have used it.


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  23. #423
    Senior Member spirit733t's Avatar
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    thanks ebikeFL for your feedback..

    I appreciate what you have said, but for the price Im gonna go for it, if it really crap then its no bother as it did nt cost too much, but if it works out then great

    heres another from same site

    5.0 out of 5 stars Excellent Case To Hold Lithium Bike Battery and Controller January 25, 2012
    By Jay
    Amazon Verified Purchase
    If you own an Electric Bike, this case is very durable. I use it for a 48 volt lithium battery (16 1/2 pounds). It contains two bungee nets, one with hooks that you use to attach to the other bungee net. I use it to hold the battery in place, which keeps it from moving around. It also has enough room to store your E-bike controller and is water proof. It comes with screws and two screw plates which attach to a rear bike rack. It's tough enough to handle bumpy pot holed streets without coming apart. I recommend this product.
    in the fuure I will defo do a full upgrades of my parts, for now id just like to get going as low a budget as possible for these kind of parts, I blew most of my budget on the bike itself.. which I have to say is a very nice bike..

    in fact I love steel framed chromo frame bikes now, they are not that heavy, but the ride handling is nice.. I dont know what is it, but the bike seems to be really smooth, and also i feels like when you peddle it has good efficiency and acceleration..

    part of me will miss my normal bike when I change it to an e bike hehe..

    so I would recommend looking at steel framed chromo tubing as a strong frame type for your business..

    btw for the price you paid for your cargo cach, does it feel absolutely solid and what is the lock like.. I am expecting the lock on this cargo box to be pants.. but thats what you get for the price..

    thanks again and c u later
    Dont fill the pockets of the greedy oil men and women

  24. #424
    Senior Member spirit733t's Avatar
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    oh yeah forgot ask you ebikefl..

    what can go wrong if I dont change my chain, the current one runs a 10 speed freewheel cassete,

    cheers
    Dont fill the pockets of the greedy oil men and women

  25. #425
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit733t View Post
    btw for the price you paid for your cargo cach, does it feel absolutely solid and what is the lock like.. I am expecting the lock on this cargo box to be pants.. but thats what you get for the price..
    No, the cargo cache isn't as strong as I would've have liked it to be but it does take a hit really well. I've unfortunately had the bike fall several times with the Ping battery inside the cargo cache and the cargo cache survived each fall. The lock on it is decent. The lock on your M-wave top case looks about the same as the cargo cache but the plastic on the M-wave looks thicker and more rigid.

    That Amazon review could be our very own kd5ete. I think he uses the M-wave product or someone else who has posted pictures on this thread...I've seen that case before.


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