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  1. #501
    Senior Member spirit733t's Avatar
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    Hi Ebike,

    need your advise and help on buying a new rim and spokes or the papamotor kit..

    how difficult/ easy is it to do this?

    your new rim for the rear wheel looks excellent, Id like something like yours?

    I will be ordering the 36 V 500 watt motor kit at max speed to around 20 mph.. sadly I cant afford to buy the more powerful one..

    p.s what do you think of the amped bike kit? looks interesting too, also I had a look at ebike.ca kit.. and the cost of delivery is ridiculous to england.. he wanted over $300 dollars for the delivery... I mean holy **** that is ridiculos?

    anyway dude take care man..
    Dont fill the pockets of the greedy oil men and women

  2. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit733t View Post
    need your advise and help on buying a new rim and spokes or the papamotor kit..

    how difficult/ easy is it to do this?
    I'm using the Sun Ringle MTX 39 rims and Sapim Stainless Steel spokes from http://holmeshobbies.com/.

    Lacing the rims isn't very difficult, I used a YouTube video for the front wheel for 3-cross lacing and for the rear I just took a picture of the lacing on the stock Papamotor setup and duplicated it on the new rim.

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit733t View Post
    your new rim for the rear wheel looks excellent, Id like something like yours?

    I will be ordering the 36 V 500 watt motor kit at max speed to around 20 mph.. sadly I cant afford to buy the more powerful one..

    p.s what do you think of the amped bike kit? looks interesting too, also I had a look at ebike.ca kit.. and the cost of delivery is ridiculous to england.. he wanted over $300 dollars for the delivery... I mean holy **** that is ridiculos?

    anyway dude take care man..
    The 500w motor will serve you well. If you order any bicycle components try http://www.chainreactioncycles.com located there with you in England. Compare prices with Amazon.com just to make sure CRC is the lowest...most of the time they will be.

    Haven't seen the amped kit. Yes, Ebike.ca has a new e-bike out but oddly they don't use their cycle analyst in the kit. The kit is a bit too expensive for being 36v, having wider rims and tires on the back for all the cargo the e-bike can haul would be better as well.

    The modifications to the 1000w Papamotor hub motor are holding up very nicely. I haven't had any problems with the rear 203mm brake rotor since I made the changes. I'm in the process of installing the larger 48t outer chainring I purchased and also will be testing out new Schwalbe Fat Frank 2.35" wide tires with the kevlar lining. I love the Maxxis Hookworms but the streets I travel contain a lot of debris and have caused me to have three flat tires so far. I'm hoping the kevlar and Mr. Tuffy liner will decrease the rate of tire issues.

    I calculated that I've saved over $400 in just gas so far. I'll begin work on my second Papamotor 48v 1000w e-bike in a few days and when the new battery carrier is built, I'll look forward to selling my car. I look forward to telling my car insurance company that I no longer need their services.

    Keep us posted on your e-bike build.


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  3. #503
    Senior Member spirit733t's Avatar
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    hi ebike,

    thanks for your quick reply as always.. a great help..

    so another question, do you think I need to order the disc brake option part of the kit, or can I get by on any normal 160 mm rotor that I can buy from England..

    I think I may need to buy the 44 mm spacers as per your posts, can you let me know your thoughts on this please..

    thanks.. and what happened to sixiam and the rest of the papamotor gang..

    all the best
    Dont fill the pockets of the greedy oil men and women

  4. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit733t View Post
    so another question, do you think I need to order the disc brake option part of the kit, or can I get by on any normal 160 mm rotor that I can buy from England..
    You don't need to order the disc brake option if you use your stock rear brake posts AND use a 203mm rotor; however, you will still need to keep the spacing the brake bracket on the Papamotor kit provides. You can substitute any stainless steel pipe with the same internal and external diameters of the bracket. You can ask Papamotor to just send you the brake bracket and then cut the piece off that would normally hold the brake caliper as I did. Don't forget to also purchase the rear post mount adapter to use the 203mm rotor, http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=13750.

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit733t View Post
    I think I may need to buy the 44 mm spacers as per your posts, can you let me know your thoughts on this please..
    Yes, this part should be standard now with all US and UK deliveries. Make sure to get the new 10mm long 44mm adapter, the previous version was only 8mm. You will also need to purchase two 2.5mm spacers from ebike.ca. Have ebike.ca just stick them inside a letter envelope and mail it to you. It will be less than $5 for shipping. You also will need six stainless steel bolts from your local hardware store to replace the stock brake disc bolts, the bolts should be 3/4 inch long. I highly suggest using a two part epoxy, also from the hardware store, to cement the 44mm adapter onto the hub motor cover. Don't use the cheap epoxy, get the more expensive better named brand stuff, you'll only get one chance to do it right. Don't forget to mix the two part epoxy properly either...I learned the hard way this actually makes a big difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit733t View Post
    thanks.. and what happened to sixiam and the rest of the papamotor gang..
    I don't know...if their e-bikes get the same attention my does; they're probably taking orders. I had someone follow me home at night a few weeks ago. It kinda freaked me out. They wanted to know about my e-bike when I stopped in front of my house. I didn't know if they lived in my neighborhood or not. Luckily, I had the GoPro recording and got good close-up video of their car and them.


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  5. #505
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    Hi ebike & spirit,

    Nice to see the new update today:-)
    Glad to know you both are good
    Looking forward to see more updates frequently here!
    Regards

  6. #506
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    Question for those of you that installed the FWD version on a non-steel (say aluminum) front fork. How is that working out?

    The papamotors website says that the front fork should be steel but my bike has an aluminum fork so I'm contemplating whether to get the FWD or RWD. I'd prefer a FWD so that it's easier to convert my bike back to "normal" whenever I need to.

  7. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by sammy5001 View Post
    Question for those of you that installed the FWD version on a non-steel (say aluminum) front fork. How is that working out?

    The papamotors website says that the front fork should be steel but my bike has an aluminum fork so I'm contemplating whether to get the FWD or RWD. I'd prefer a FWD so that it's easier to convert my bike back to "normal" whenever I need to.
    I don't have the front wheel setup but I'm trying to win over as many future Papamotor users to use the RWD setup. Come on over to the RWD...the dark side of the hub motor force (I'm watching Star Wars V right now). "Feel the force around you..."

    The rear wheel setup especially with panniers makes your e-bike look like a regular bike due to the fact that the motor is hidden. You can't use disk brakes with the front wheel setup. You can use your stock disc brake posts and use a 203mm brake rotor when you use the RWD setup which gives you serious stopping power.


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  8. #508
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    The most important factors to consider when looking at e bike conversion kits are to make sure the battery fits in securely onto your frame. Alot of conversion kit batteries are big and chunky, i dont recommend these, as you will find them too heavy for your bike frame. And you will start to see the battery mounting brackets loosen. Also the messy wiring is a problem too, they come with standard length of wiring, so it is a decent effort to cut each wire to size so your bike still looks good.

    For me, kits are still not as good as buying a factory made electric bike

  9. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisRider View Post
    The most important factors to consider when looking at e bike conversion kits are to make sure the battery fits in securely onto your frame. Alot of conversion kit batteries are big and chunky, i dont recommend these, as you will find them too heavy for your bike frame. And you will start to see the battery mounting brackets loosen. Also the messy wiring is a problem too, they come with standard length of wiring, so it is a decent effort to cut each wire to size so your bike still looks good.

    For me, kits are still not as good as buying a factory made electric bike
    I didn't have to cut any wires on my RWD setup...another plus to going RWD.


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  10. #510
    Senior Member spirit733t's Avatar
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    I think the front kits have more risk to them in terms of safefty problems, like with the front drop outs being weaker than the back drop outs, maybe it is better to go with low powered front hubs.


    which motor kit are you planning on buying?

    I am going for the 36 v 500 watt rear, as it seems fast enough for my needs.. ( commuting 12 miles ) .. 19 mph ish..

    and also is more lighter and less bulky ( battery is smaller)

    but if you want speeds above 30 mph then 48 volt kit is better..
    Dont fill the pockets of the greedy oil men and women

  11. #511
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    Alright. I pulled the trigger on the 48V 1000W RWD kit last Wednesday Dec 28 with 5A charger upgrade. Within minutes of ordering I got a Google Chat invitation from Papamotors to work out the upgrade logistics (them sending me a another Paypal invoice for the difference).

    I came back from vacation today (Wednesday Jan 2nd) to check the status which indicate "shipped". Just now I received a mystery box delivered to my office which happens to be from Papamotors and it contains everything (wheel, etc.) except battery which they said they will ship separately. Looking closely at the shipping label, they shipped it out on the 29th from Shanghai and arrived today. That's 3 day air shipping!

    So far so good. Can't wait to get the battery!

  12. #512
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    Congratulations!

    While you're waiting for the Ping battery you can purchase some of the extras you'll need...like a bike rack and the Cycle Analyst.

    Did you get the 15 Ah or 20 Ah battery?


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  13. #513
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    EBikeFL: I got the standard 15 Ah battery--figured it will be more than sufficient for petal assist 10-35 miles commute (depending on whether I feel like throwing in public train transit into the mix). Speaking of Cycle Analyst, which version did you get? Standalone, Direct Plug-in, or Speedo?

  14. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by sammy5001 View Post
    EBikeFL: I got the standard 15 Ah battery--figured it will be more than sufficient for petal assist 10-35 miles commute (depending on whether I feel like throwing in public train transit into the mix). Speaking of Cycle Analyst, which version did you get? Standalone, Direct Plug-in, or Speedo?
    I've got the 2.25 or 2.35 I believe; however, you'll need to get the new V3 if you want to use pedal assist. The 1000w hub motor get's you moving really quick. Even with the upgraded 48t outer chain ring I just installed, I stop feeling any resistance after four pedals. The new CA V3 with the THUN torque sensor should solve the problem of the motor racing ahead of you. I plan on purchasing a CA V3 for my second Papamotor 1000w setup shortly. You'll have to drill a hole in the bottom bracket to use the THUN torque sensor. I don't see the 12 Pole Magnet Ring as part of the CA3_TorqueKit on ebike.ca...you'll have to ask ebike.ca if PAS_12P is included in the all inclusive package. When the new THUN torque sensor is setup you should be able to extend the mileage even at top speed...at least I hope so with my 48t setup.

    Ideally, I'm trying to get 25 miles from my 15 Ah Ping battery at 30+ mph using pedal assist. I have plans to use two 15 Ah Ping batteries on my second setup to give a total of over 50 miles at 30+ mph.

    You'll also need some other items from ebike.ca to complete your setup such as the 6-speed rear cassette and two of the 2.5mm spacers if you're going to use a 203mm rotor on the rear which I highly recommend. I would also use ebike.ca's heavy duty rear universal torque arms (TorqArmRev4).

    Get your list together and I'll let you know if you're missing anything before you order.

    Man, I've been looking at ebike.ca's CA V3 webpage and I'm drooling. There's so many cool features!

    I think the ultimate setup would be the CA V3 with Papamotor's 48v 1000w hub motor and two 15 Ah Ping batteries. Plus all the other little goodies I have on my first prototype setup.

    Don't forget to also install the thumb or twist throttle. Looking at the CA V3 options you can turn off the PAS using the CA buttons. Nice!
    Last edited by EBikeFL; 01-03-13 at 12:34 AM. Reason: additional comments


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  15. #515
    Administrator Allen's Avatar
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    What does living in a van have to do with electric bicycles?

  16. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllenG View Post
    What does living in a van have to do with electric bicycles?
    Bandett56, just likes the format of the site he mentioned.

    I just got back from riding a few errands and spoke with someone who was also very interested in my e-bike. The future customer asked if I would notify him when I went public with a stock offering so he could invest in my company. He was very impressed.


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  17. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandett56 View Post
    I think we should put together some sort of issue vs. solution type of document and also list as many of the variables as possible one very important one being the current mileage on the kit.

    hi , i am reading your site on 1000 watt 48 volt . tried to PM you but could not , so i just post it here.
    i just got to the part where mentioned setting up some ref page that people could go to for info so you dont have to keep repeating or lose the info.
    Thank you, bandett56 for your suggestions. Yes, I'm in the process of putting a website together and soon starting my own business. Spirit733t, has suggested putting some sort of webpage together to assist other Papamotor users as well. Perhaps, AllenG can suggest something that will solve our problem of having to read through all 20+ pages of posts to find the necessary information.

    The e-trike looks very good. Keep us posted on any issues/upgrades.


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  18. #518
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBikeFL View Post
    Bandett56, just likes the format of the site he mentioned.

    I just got back from riding a few errands and spoke with someone who was also very interested in my e-bike. The future customer asked if I would notify him when I went public with a stock offering so he could invest in my company. He was very impressed.
    Ah. Got it.

  19. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBikeFL View Post
    Thank you, bandett56 for your suggestions. Yes, I'm in the process of putting a website together and soon starting my own business. Spirit733t, has suggested putting some sort of webpage together to assist other Papamotor users as well. Perhaps, AllenG can suggest something that will solve our problem of having to read through all 20+ pages of posts to find the necessary information.

    The e-trike looks very good. Keep us posted on any issues/upgrades.
    best I can recommend is start more threads. Splitting this on up would just scatter the information here.

  20. #520
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBikeFL View Post
    Bandett56, just likes the format of the site he mentioned.

    I just got back from riding a few errands and spoke with someone who was also very interested in my e-bike. The future customer asked if I would notify him when I went public with a stock offering so he could invest in my company. He was very impressed.
    Hi Ebike,
    Looking forward to see your own business soon:-)
    And congratulate you for getting a potential investor who would like to support your business
    It's really good
    Happy New Year

  21. #521
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    Quote Originally Posted by julie0217 View Post
    Hi Ebike,
    Looking forward to see your own business soon:-)
    And congratulate you for getting a potential investor who would like to support your business
    It's really good
    Happy New Year
    Thanks, Julie0217. People within my cycling radius are beginning to see the benefits of using an e-bike, especially when I'm carrying two bags of groceries and still doing 30+ mph. There is one negative side to the e-bike, I will find any excuse to ride it..."Oh, I should have bought two dozen eggs instead of one. Oh well, back to the grocery store."

    Happy New Year.


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  22. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by sammy5001 View Post
    EBikeFL: I got the standard 15 Ah battery--figured it will be more than sufficient for petal assist 10-35 miles commute (depending on whether I feel like throwing in public train transit into the mix). Speaking of Cycle Analyst, which version did you get? Standalone, Direct Plug-in, or Speedo?
    Sammy5001, I've got the standalone CA right now; however, you can get the CA DPS AND use the new CA-DPS to standalone shunt to save some money. This should give you features to control the PAS.


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  23. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandett56 View Post
    i thought that it might be interesting to include another bit of data on your group information site. You mentioned gathering each members bike mileage etc. to display on the site.. i think it would interesting to include the ground pressure of the front and rear wheels separately for members bikes. it might bring out some interesting statistics.
    Yes, this would be very valuable to riders. The tire pressure depends on several factors some of which include tire manufacturer, weight over the rear of the e-bike in the form of battery placement and cargo, personal riding preferences, tire width and height (balloon tires), etc. Also, the street surfaces and weather conditions of the rider's location plays a big part.

    If you have the rear wheel Papamotor setup then the most important tire will be the rear tire. I've never had a flat on the front tire regardless of the tire I was using. Looking at the tread wear on all the various tires I've used, the front tire is just along for the ride. Of course, you'd want wet weather performance with the front tire but the demands on the front tire are not anywhere near the demands of the rear. Now this could change once you started putting more weight in the form of front panniers which I plan on doing in the next week or two.

    I've also noticed that due to the large front fairing, the weight on the front wheel makes a big difference when riding in weather conditions where the wind is above 15 mph and gusting at an angle other than 0 and 180 degrees. The front wheel and fairing become top heavy in windy conditions. When I changed to the Schwalbe Fat Franks I noticed this since these tires are lighter than the Maxxis Hookworms. I'm hoping that just the weight of the metal of the front pannier rack will counteract this characteristic. I have additional plans for the front panniers besides just adding weight too.

    Quote Originally Posted by bandett56 View Post
    one might be , how many people are going up to or over the weight rating of the rear tires and rims.
    With the all the electronics,batts,motor,side bags full of cargo, 200 lb rider gets to 300 lbs pretty quick.
    I'm not sure you would count the entire weight of the rider over the rear wheel. The battery and cargo in my setup, yes. The Schwalbe Fat Frank and Big Apple in the 2.35 width are rated to over 300 lbs.

    Quote Originally Posted by bandett56 View Post
    What is your rear wheel rated for ? you did say that your spokes became loose. i am surprised that papamotor allowed that to happen with their wheel. i assume they built the wheel .
    at bicycle speeds ( 10 -15 mph ) that is not such a big deal. But at the speeds of 30 and 40 it can be.
    Yes, using the stock Papamotor rim the spokes became loose after 1500 miles in my case. Even on a normal bicycle you should check your spoke tension periodically. With the aftermarket Sun Ringle MTX-39 rims and Sapim race spokes I don't have much to worry about now but I still do a quick tension test every now and then.

    Quote Originally Posted by bandett56 View Post
    Also, even on my trike with the small 500 watt front wheel motor. if i am on any slick/dusty/ etc surface the front wheel can spin during take off.
    With a 1000 watt front wheel on a 2 wheeler and a hand throttle . a sudden burst of torque at the wrong time ( turning /curves / crossing that oil strip in the center of the road )could easily put the rider on the pavement ;(
    Akin to a front wheel drive motorcycle .
    I think this would be normal for a front wheel setup where you don't have the weight over the tire. I've never had this problem with the rear wheel setup.

    Quote Originally Posted by bandett56 View Post
    i just went and weighed my front wheel with me on it ..about 40 lb. But that is a trike so it doesn't mean much here.
    Do you think there Would be a diff weight distribution with diff 2 wheeler frames or that all 2 wheeler frame are so similar that it would not matter ?
    The majority of MTB frames in the $500-$800 range are very similar. The weight distribution would be different depending on how you had your battery storage and cargo setup. How do you plan on carrying the battery and accessories on your setup?


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  24. #524
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    Bandett56, I don't know what to make of your post. You've disregarded all sense of grammar and spelling. Most times I completely ignore posts like this but let me see if I can make sense of what you are trying to say and perhaps clear up any points of confusion you may have.

    Quote Originally Posted by bandett56 View Post
    You have fallen in love with your ability to twist and go.. and how much fun it is !
    You have even advised people on this site with your answers that .

    " you wont miss the ( 14 thousand gear options, haha ) on your real wheel cassette once you
    experience the power of your elec motor. " you just wont need them " .
    I spend most of my time traveling on flat roads and as a result I'm always in the highest gears. Hence, the reason why I decided to upgrade my outer chain ring. If you use the 1000w hub motor and don't have some way of controlling the output where your pedaling actually has some effect then any of the lower gears won't matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by bandett56 View Post
    But yet you continue with your lust for the geek bike stuff like $1000 bikes to build ones own e bikes from.
    ( i hope you are laughing with me ) when i say this .

    And this the same thing i would say to my best friend .

    " why would you buy a $800 bike to convert to an e bike when you insist on replacing ( not using ) most
    of it " .
    I'm not exactly laughing...more like crying over your torture of English grammar. I think someone on this forum said it best that when you purchase a bicycle for an e-bike conversion you are buying the components that you want on it minus what you plan on upgrading. In fact, the second bicycle I purchased for my next conversion I did just that...told the vendor to take off the parts I was planning on upgrading so they could resell them and in exchange ship the bicycle to me for free.

    Quote Originally Posted by bandett56 View Post
    Just from reading the first 15 pages of this site .

    you are already into $2500 for e bike ... just to start 1000 for a bike and 1100 for the kit and then you bought new wheels
    and 20 other things .

    And All the trick bicycle stuff,,, then bigger rims and tire ... and better tires , then ...

    Why start with a $800 bike ? when all you are going to end up using is the handle bars frame ?
    Actually, my bicycle was $500.

    Quote Originally Posted by bandett56 View Post
    you could start with a $100 walmart cruiser with steel frame and steel front forks or a buy the same bike used on craigslist for $25
    Then use the $1000 to buy the hub motor wheel kit and fit the bike out with what ever you desire and make it yours.
    I don't think most $100 walmart cruiser's have disc brakes. You may find some good deals on craigslist but not knowing for sure at 30+ mph could be a problem. Please put me in your will if you decide to use a $100 Walmart bicycle with the 1000w hub motor better yet put the hub motor on the front wheel. I don't want to wait more than a week to receive any of your funds.

    Quote Originally Posted by bandett56 View Post
    I mean really ,, after you change your wheels , bolt on your rear and front saddle bags , load on your batts ,, does it really matter how many ounces your frame weighs ? hehehe ,, hope you dont mind my sarcasm ,, but really ! come one .
    I think you mentioned earlier that the bicycle tires are rated for "x" amount of pounds. Wouldn't you want to use as much weight as possible for cargo and not the bicycle itself without sacrificing structural integrity? There's no free lunch here when it comes to weight and energy used to move that weight.

    Quote Originally Posted by bandett56 View Post
    From what i have read from you on this site is 2 things .
    1) you like to ride you bicycle around .
    2) But ,,,you love to ride your bike around a lot more when you use it as a electric driven motorcycle ( just using the peddles for fake ) .

    I think you need to come out of the closet and admit who you really are ! no longer satisfied to peddle a bicycle .
    You want the POWER ! to twist and go ! just admit it and set yourself free !
    Let me comment on 1) and 2):

    1) I'm glad it's coming across to you that I like to ride my e-bike. These past 20+ pages haven't been in vain.

    2) Well, if I wanted an electric motorcycle I would have purchased one...clearly I've spent enough on both of my e-bikes to afford one. If I just wanted to use the peddles for fake I wouldn't have purchased a $70 outer chain ring. Peddling activates the PAS and gives my thumb a rest. I know I mentioned in my previous posts that I use the thumb throttle to get me moving from a stand still and you mentioned that you read 15 pages of this thread. I don't think you did.

    Quote Originally Posted by bandett56 View Post
    Ill tell you about my cheap azz low class , 500 watt trike and how it came to be in another post if you want .
    trust me , you wont be interested , but thanks for asking as if you were .. hahaha
    I'm sure we'd all like to hear about your 500w trike. Please start another thread though if you decide to tell us about it.

    Also, this not only applies to you but all other members who decide to post on this thread and because it's so important I'll use all caps.

    PLEASE CHECK YOUR GRAMMAR AND SPELLING BEFORE HITTING THE "Post Quick Reply" BUTTON. REMEMBER THAT THIS FORUM HAS A BUILT IN SPELL CHECKER AND WHEN A WORD YOU TYPE GETS HIGHLIGHTED IN A WAVY RED LINE THERE'S PROBABLY SOMETHING WRONG WITH IT. REMEMBER THAT YOUR INTELLIGENCE AND LEVEL OF EDUCATION CAN BE INFERRED IN WHAT AND HOW YOU WRITE ON THIS FORUM. A HANDY WEBPAGE TO HAVE OPEN WHILE YOU COMPOSE A MESSAGE IS: http://www.dictionary.com


    If we don't make changes to our use and abuse of energy, Mother Nature will make it for us.
    Be a part of the solution to Global Warming instead of a contributor.

  25. #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBikeFL View Post
    I don't have the front wheel setup but I'm trying to win over as many future Papamotor users to use the RWD setup. Come on over to the RWD...the dark side of the hub motor force (I'm watching Star Wars V right now). "Feel the force around you..."

    The rear wheel setup especially with panniers makes your e-bike look like a regular bike due to the fact that the motor is hidden. You can't use disk brakes with the front wheel setup. You can use your stock disc brake posts and use a 203mm brake rotor when you use the RWD setup which gives you serious stopping power.
    Hey EBike...I'm about to purchase a RWD conversion kit for my Trek 7.3. 48V 1000W. I was wondering what is required to make the 6 speed freewheel that comes with it work? My bike has an 8 speed Deore derailleur and trigger shifters. Any idea if this will work with the freewheel that comes with the kit or do I need to swap them out? Looking to purchase ASAP so any input would be greatly appreciated.

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