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  1. #576
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    Quote Originally Posted by powell View Post
    of course they are expending , for prices they sell....many non-tech, low tech standards customers will buy.

    But seriously 6 months warranty says it all.

    but this thread is about PAPAMot
    Absolutely correct,this thread is about PAPAMOTOR

  2. #577
    Senior Member
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    Chris King does manufactures bicycle components
    One of the finest on this planet
    If you cannot click on Chris King ad so Google it and you will see

  3. #578
    Senior Member DrkAngel's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Chris King has nothing to do with electric bicycles! ... ???

    This thread is about PAPAMOTOR
    "Best of all! ... I get to play. ... http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...&thumb=1&stc=1
    Sorry! ... I'm addicted to improving enhancing.
    With side orders of inspiring enlightening!"

    Acronyms

  4. #579
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrkAngel View Post
    Chris King has nothing to do with electric bicycles! ... ???

    This thread is about PAPAMOTOR
    You guys crack me up.

    Lets go Papamotor users in NY...get those Schwalbe snow and ice tires on (http://www.schwalbetires.com/new_spike_tires_home) and show automobile users nothing will stop an e-bike even in 24"+ of snow. Ride safely if you have to get out and travel.


    If we don't make changes to our use and abuse of energy, Mother Nature will make it for us.
    Be a part of the solution to Global Warming instead of a contributor.

  5. #580
    Senior Member DrkAngel's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by EBikeFL View Post
    You guys crack me up.

    Lets go Papamotor users in NY...get those Schwalbe snow and ice tires on (http://www.schwalbetires.com/new_spike_tires_home) and show automobile users nothing will stop an e-bike even in 24"+ of snow. Ride safely if you have to get out and travel.
    Got frustrated ... storm last month left my homemade tires feeling ... inadequate.
    Homemade Studded tires

    So I upped the ante ...

    "Best of all! ... I get to play. ... http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...&thumb=1&stc=1
    Sorry! ... I'm addicted to improving enhancing.
    With side orders of inspiring enlightening!"

    Acronyms

  6. #581
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    I had another close encounter with a vehicle today so I've decided to get a front facing/helmet camera in addition to the rear facing GoPro I currently use. The vehicle had two car widths while passing me available but instead decided to pass me with only a foot to spare and honk at me on top of it all.

    For those of you using the roads to ride your e-bikes, stay safe out there. Drivers seem to get more frustrated as the gas prices go up.

    The Schwalbe Big Apple tires in the 26" x 2.35" size are working out great. The Schwalbe Fat Frank tires are nice but I didn't feel comfortable riding on oval shaped segments of rubber. The Big Apples have a nice contact patch. Unfortunately, the Big Apple Plus tires with the Green Guard protection do not come in the 2.35" width. I also picked up a flat on the Fat Frank tire just before switching over to the Big Apples. I thought with the kevlar protection on the Fat Franks that I would never have a problem but looking at the rear camera footage, I rode over something while cornering and exposed the non-kevlar portion of the Fat Frank rear tire. What ever it was shot up into the camera's field of view.

    I'm not the only one who likes the Big Apple tires either: BigAppleHitchHiker.jpg He's my new e-bike security guard.


    If we don't make changes to our use and abuse of energy, Mother Nature will make it for us.
    Be a part of the solution to Global Warming instead of a contributor.

  7. #582
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    I'm loking into this PAPAMOTOR kit and this thread is extremely helpful. I found a 48v 25ah lifepo4 battery for around the same price as the one included in the PAPAMOTOR kit. This is it: http://www.dhgate.com/environment-fr...html#s1-1-null. It costs $672 and the one included in the papamotor kit costs $642. Adding an additional 10ah for $30 seems like a good idea. The only drawback is that the battery is about twice the weight as the ping battery included in the kit (15kg compared to 7kg). Are the extra amp-hours worth the extra weight?

  8. #583
    Senior Member coolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrkAngel View Post
    An nice (Better?) alternative is the USA based AmpedBikes.com.

    USA designed products custom built in China.

    Advantages:
    USA based shipping and support.
    Good prices.
    Complete kits - come with a 6 month warranty!
    Intelligible support personnel.
    A variety of front, rear, geared and non-geared motors.
    Multi-voltage capable controllers.
    Good Q&A on their home page
    An open forum! With comments, questions, discussions etc.

    Disadvantages:

    No large or "bargain" priced Lithium packs!
    36V 10Ah Lithium battery sounds impressive but pricey?

    Most impressively...


    "All of our kits go through an 8 point rigorous testing procedure before they are shipped to you in order to provide you with a flawless kit ready to install
    1. All wheels are trued within .03.

    2. All spokes are tightened to exact torque specifications.
    3. All connections are soldered and thoroughly checked.
    4. All components you will receive are tested together as one unit in order for us to be 100% sure that all of your components work perfectly together.
    5. All wheels/motors are bench tested under heavy load for 1 hour and under no load for 1 hour.
    6. All Switches and connectors are plugged in , unplugged looking for any problems.
    7. All switches and throttles are tested extremely thoroughly to insure that you get where you are going.
    8. We check the motor cutoff micro switches embedded in the brakes to insure that you have a safe ride.
    Once all of this is complete. we box up your kit, Run through a checklist, it is signed and put in your box and shipped.

    • "
    Can't recommend Amped Bikes. They sent me a bad hub and I had to pay about $150 shipping the parts, hub to them several times. AVOID them at all costs.

  9. #584
    Senior Member spirit733t's Avatar
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    hello all,

    @ philosocaptor:

    the ping battery with the papamotor kit has lots of users and is well known and proven brand.. so I would go for that. also the support from Ping is great too.

    the amped bikes kits has only 6 month warranty; says it all really, papamotor have a full years support..

    the papamotor has a good motor, and after some time , you could easily change the rims like ebikeFL..

    take care all
    Dont fill the pockets of the greedy oil men and women

  10. #585
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    Quote Originally Posted by philosocaptor View Post
    I'm loking into this PAPAMOTOR kit and this thread is extremely helpful. I found a 48v 25ah lifepo4 battery for around the same price as the one included in the PAPAMOTOR kit. This is it: http://www.dhgate.com/environment-fr...html#s1-1-null. It costs $672 and the one included in the papamotor kit costs $642. Adding an additional 10ah for $30 seems like a good idea. The only drawback is that the battery is about twice the weight as the ping battery included in the kit (15kg compared to 7kg). Are the extra amp-hours worth the extra weight?
    Hello, philosocaptor.

    I haven't had any experience with the battery in your link but Ping batteries are well known for their quality. Using the larger heavier battery will limit the locations you can store it on the bicycle. If you could get two 48v 15Ah batteries that would be better. You'd have a lower discharge rate and you'd have more options on where to store the batteries on the bicycle. I plan on using two 48v 15Ah Ping batteries in my second e-bike setup with a "Y" splitter. A few of the Papamotor users on this forum have gone with the Ping 48v 20Ah battery and still were able to store the battery on their rear bicycle rack. I would get a heavy duty rear bicycle rack to hold either the 15Ah or the 20Ah batteries.

    If you go through this thread you'll have all the links to the parts I used on my setup. You'll also see the various other setups and parts by other Papamotor users. What has worked and what didn't. Good luck and keep us posted.


    If we don't make changes to our use and abuse of energy, Mother Nature will make it for us.
    Be a part of the solution to Global Warming instead of a contributor.

  11. #586
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    Thanks for the suggestions Spirit and Ebike. I'll probably go with the ping battery, but just one. I can't afford 2 at $650 apiece. Plus, my average ride will be short enough that I won't need the extra battery power.

  12. #587
    Senior Member DrkAngel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBikeFL View Post
    I've shipped many items to China and it's not an issue. There is no rush and no mandatory method of shipping to China. I chose the slowest, least expensive method.
    Turnaround shipping by "slowest, least expensive method" would be $140 - $280+? (for entire "kit") ...
    Delay while container ship fills before sailing ...
    4 - 5 week shipping time ...
    in China delivery and process time ...
    4 - 5 week return shipping ...
    In country re-delivery.

    So ... 9 to 12+ week till replacement arrives?
    That is a whole Summer without my eBike!

    I'd rather spend $50, probably reimbursed, for FedEx to Ampedbikes with a 7-10 day turn around.
    "Best of all! ... I get to play. ... http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...&thumb=1&stc=1
    Sorry! ... I'm addicted to improving enhancing.
    With side orders of inspiring enlightening!"

    Acronyms

  13. #588
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrkAngel View Post
    Turnaround shipping by "slowest, least expensive method" would be $140 - $280+? (for entire "kit") ...
    Delay while container ship fills before sailing ...
    4 - 5 week shipping time ...
    in China delivery and process time ...
    4 - 5 week return shipping ...
    In country re-delivery.

    So ... 9 to 12+ week till replacement arrives?
    That is a whole Summer without my eBike!

    I'd rather spend $50, probably reimbursed, for FedEx to Ampedbikes with a 7-10 day turn around.
    Once you've sent the delivery confirmation/tracking number any replacement parts would get shipped out immediately.

    There's no need to wait for the company to receive and process any broken parts.

    This applies to most companies even many here in the States.


    If we don't make changes to our use and abuse of energy, Mother Nature will make it for us.
    Be a part of the solution to Global Warming instead of a contributor.

  14. #589
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    Guys
    thinking about the papamotor kit for my new cargo bike. A few questions:
    -i need a 26" rear disc wheel. Can i run the brakes either hydraulic or mechanical disc? The levers that come with the kit, i assume they're for mechanical disc brakes?
    -explain to me how the PAS system work. I prefer to have an assisted pedal stroke versus pedaling just to keep up with the motor. Ive heard the papamotor PAS system is a little different than other systems like the bionix?

    thanks!
    Last edited by -holiday76; 04-07-13 at 11:17 AM.
    Mmmm, bicycles.

    I prefer emails to private messages - holiday76@gmail.com

  15. #590
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    Quote Originally Posted by -holiday76 View Post
    Guys
    thinking about the papamotor kit for my new cargo bike. A few questions:
    -i need a 26" rear disc wheel. Can i run the brakes either hydraulic or mechanical disc? The levers that come with the kit, i assume they're for mechanical disc brakes?
    Not a problem. I'm using a 203mm Shimano Ice Tech rotor on the back with Shimano hydraulic brakes. You can use your stock brake bracket location if you use the 203mm rotor instead of Papamotor's brake bracket. You also don't need to dremel the Papamotor axle inserts like I had mentioned in early posts. I was able to still use the 203mm rotor and my chainstays didn't touch the rotor. It's close but there's a few millimeters of a gap between the chainstays and the rotor. You'll need to use one or two of the axle spacers supplied by Papamotor on both sides of the axle in addition to each 35mm long silver spacer. I used a 6-speed Shimano freewheel from ebike.ca. The total distance from side to side in the rear is less than it was but still a bit over 135mm. I have not had any issues with the rear fork and haven't seen any signs of stress on my Kona Lanai setup.

    You'll also need to use a two part epoxy (Lowes or Home Depot) and permanently fix the 10mm rotor adapter from Papamotor onto the motor. If not, you'll strip the threads of the adapter bringing all that weight to a stop. I haven't had any problems since I made the modification. Let the epoxy ride up the sides of the adapter and be generous around the base...create a nice large contact patch between the adapter and hub motor cover.

    Yes, the levers that come with the kit are for mechanical brakes. If you want to use regenerative braking with an aftermarket controller such as the Lyen controller then you can pick up the hydraulic rear brakes from ebikessf. If you can afford it, I would go directly to using Lyen's controllers since you'll be able to pick an additional 10-15 amps which will help when hauling cargo and especially starting from a stand still. Keep the Papamotor controller as a back-up.

    Quote Originally Posted by -holiday76 View Post
    -explain to me how the PAS system work. I prefer to have an assisted pedal stroke versus pedaling just to keep up with the motor. Ive heard the papamotor PAS system is a little different than other systems like the bionix?
    Not a problem. Just use your gears. The PAS works off the rotation of a magnetic disk installed on the bottom bracket and your cadence. If you use ebike.ca's new v3 Cycle Analyst then spring for the Thun torque sensor instead.


    If we don't make changes to our use and abuse of energy, Mother Nature will make it for us.
    Be a part of the solution to Global Warming instead of a contributor.

  16. #591
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    Hello,

    I had followed this thread around the time it started. I never did pull the trigger and order a kit. I am now thinking about it. Seeing as how it has been over a year since this thread started, I was wondering if the kit was still a good choice or if anyone had any ideas about other kits. Perhaps Papamotor has improved their product in a years time.

    If you have any thoughts/ideas, feel free to message me. I don't want to pollute the thread with Non - Papamotor ideas since some are sensitive to that.

    Thanks.

  17. #592
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrusry View Post
    Hello,

    I had followed this thread around the time it started. I never did pull the trigger and order a kit. I am now thinking about it. Seeing as how it has been over a year since this thread started, I was wondering if the kit was still a good choice or if anyone had any ideas about other kits. Perhaps Papamotor has improved their product in a years time.

    If you have any thoughts/ideas, feel free to message me. I don't want to pollute the thread with Non - Papamotor ideas since some are sensitive to that.

    Thanks.
    Hello, wrusry.

    There is enough Papamotor content in this thread to stand up to any kind of polluting. We have several Papamotor users from around the world using and modifying their kits.

    My original Papamotor motor is still working great. I was able to take off the hub motor cover and noticed some rust forming around the main shaft. I plan on preventing this from happening on my second Papamotor motor/rim that's built and cleaning up the first. I'm also using a Lyen controller with up to 45A now. I've seen as much as 40A on the CA moving from a standstill with cargo. I've also weatherproofed other parts of the e-bike, parts not included in the Papamotor kit.

    The first of many CNC specialized parts arrived and I'm in the process of testing them out. I've created the whole Papamotor rear hub, rim and spokes in 3-D and plan of inputting the parameters of the Kona as well using 3-D software. The most challenging aspect will be converting the 3-D designs into actual fabricated parts. These are parts that must be hand built not CNC'd.

    I have a domain name and hosting for three years paid for already. I'm in the process of setting up the company name. I've given myself until April 2014 to have the website completed but it will depend on other parts of the e-bike being done first.

    All the modifications and improvements will be available as a new e-bike for sale hopefully next year.

    I like the performance specs of the new Crystalyte Crown Motor and would like to have an e-bike for sale using the 72v 50A setup.

    I will be moving out of Orlando and setting up shop at a retail location I've already picked out which is still in Florida and is favorable to bicycles.

    Then there is the issue of securing capital to get the project off the ground. Kickstarter.com may be one option.

    There's a lot going on.


    If we don't make changes to our use and abuse of energy, Mother Nature will make it for us.
    Be a part of the solution to Global Warming instead of a contributor.

  18. #593
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    Thank you EBikeFL. Hopefully, I go through with it this time.

  19. #594
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    Well, this is a first!

    I just pulled over a car. The driver thought I was a police officer with all my strobe lights going off.
    It didn't help when I blasted the Hornit horn which also sounds like a police siren.

    I was wondering what the hell is this driver doing stopping in the middle of a turning lane.
    Then he slowly gets out and tells me he thought I was a police officer with the strobe light going off in the front.

    Oh boy...this video is going in the save folder.

    Too bad Ripley's Believe It Or Not isn't still on the air.

    There you go, Wrusry. Get the Papamotor kit and pull over cars.
    Last edited by EBikeFL; 07-31-13 at 06:45 PM. Reason: Additional Hilarious Comment


    If we don't make changes to our use and abuse of energy, Mother Nature will make it for us.
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  20. #595
    Senior Member chas58's Avatar
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    The red blinkey light goes in the back.

    Good job getting automotive traffic to pull over for you and let you pass. That is a lot different than the way most bikes get treated around here!

  21. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by chas58 View Post
    The red blinkey light goes in the back.

    Good job getting automotive traffic to pull over for you and let you pass. That is a lot different than the way most bikes get treated around here!
    I wish I had a red flashing light up front...at least that would have made some sense but I just had the white strobe on.

    The driver didn't pull over...he just stopped in the middle of the turning lane. I was in the bicycle lane too when he passed me before heading into the turning lane. Maybe this weekend I can put a YouTube video together of the whole incident for everyone. I still can't believe it even now.


    If we don't make changes to our use and abuse of energy, Mother Nature will make it for us.
    Be a part of the solution to Global Warming instead of a contributor.

  22. #597
    Senior Member
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    What's everyone using for pedals on your e-bikes? I have the shimano PD-M324 SPD Dual Platform pedals but they have begun to rust.

    I am thinking about upgrading to the Shimano PD-Mx80 Platform pedals http://www.amazon.com/Shimano-153054...=IY8B1R5KUXUYN

    Anyone have any experience with these on your e-bike?


    If we don't make changes to our use and abuse of energy, Mother Nature will make it for us.
    Be a part of the solution to Global Warming instead of a contributor.

  23. #598
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    I just looked at the total miles on my Cycle Analyst: 5051 miles!

    I've recharged the Ping battery 351 times. At say 30 mpg of the average car and an average of $3.50/gal for gas I've already paid off the Ping battery.

    I need to step up my riding distance so I can catch up with the rest of you who are over 10,000 miles.


    If we don't make changes to our use and abuse of energy, Mother Nature will make it for us.
    Be a part of the solution to Global Warming instead of a contributor.

  24. #599
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    A quick update for those who may be following this thread:

    The two-part epoxy only works for about 3-4 weeks at which time the epoxy starts to break down and comes apart. I replaced it after each time and after doing so five or six times I switched to using JB-Weld which seems to be doing a much better job with no signs of peeling off the hub motor.

    Papamotor has come out with a version 1.5 of their kits. I was able to get my hands on the upgrade and it's a nice improvement. There is now only one major wire loom going from the handlebars to the rear of the bicycle which will help keep your bicycle looking like a bicycle. The controller has also been upgraded at least on the exterior. The upgrades have come with an increase in the price of the kits as well.

    My controller upgrade has come at a cost. My original Ping battery has dropped to a little over 11Ah, luckily for me I have a second Ping battery on hand. I'm working with Ping to find out why and also why the Papamotor hub motor has lost some torque. I suspect the Hall sensors may be on their way out. I purchased new Honeywell Hall sensors for both Papamotor hub motors I have and look forward to making the repairs.

    The strong rain storms here in Florida have also effected my DiNotte XML3 headlight but the guys at DiNotte will look at the complete kit for me for free. They also gave me a discount on my second XML3 kit for my second e-bike...another great bicycle company to do business with.

    It's been about 19 months now using the original Shimano Ice Tech rotors both front and rear. The front rotor needs to be replaced. I went through about three sets of brake pads.

    I also had to replace the bicycle rack.

    Stay tuned...more to come.


    If we don't make changes to our use and abuse of energy, Mother Nature will make it for us.
    Be a part of the solution to Global Warming instead of a contributor.

  25. #600
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    Well, I just paid my monthly electric bill and I wondered how much it's costing me to recharge my Ping 48v 15Ah battery.

    After doing the math I calculated that it costs me 7 cents to recharge all 15 Ah but on average I use about 10 Ah so it costs me 5 cents. Five cents!!!!

    So next I looked up on gasbuddy.com what the average gallon-of-gas costs right now in Florida ($3.32) and I divided that by what it costs me to go 1 mile (5 cents/15 miles average).

    I'm getting 996 mpg!!!!

    Someone please check my math...this is incredible.

    What's more...if the cost of gas goes up and the electricity costs stay where they are...I make even more mpg! Lastly, if I could reduce the cost of electricity to $0 (which I could do) the mpg would approach infinity!!!

    Stay tuned...more to come.


    If we don't make changes to our use and abuse of energy, Mother Nature will make it for us.
    Be a part of the solution to Global Warming instead of a contributor.

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