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slickdude 02-22-14 08:36 PM

Great Thread thanks everyone. I own 3 Papamotors kits. They are on a Schwinn Meredian 3 Wheeler I am currently trying to salvage as those have a manufacturers defect on the right rear driver wheel. Trying to mount the chrome rear trike on the schwinn frame. It has a Papamotors 1KW Motor and 48 system 15AH. When the trike was working it would hit speeds of around 34 tops. Safe to drive in a straight line on a good road, but you had to slow to 5MPH to initiate a turn :)

My Original 1KW Papamotors set up same as with trike above was a mod to my old EZip Trailz which tanked after only 6 months, both the lead acid battery and the motor too. That I have hit actually at 32MPH but again I prefer to ride about 18MPH as I am more comfortable there.

My third candidate Bicycle was from Walmart, yes Walmart and cost 98 bucks on sale. It is the purple mtn bike they sell and I refitted it with a Papamotors kit. The frame is much lighter and this thing has hit top at 36MPH. Currently I have installed Schwabe EBike tires on all. My riding on Papamotors combined on all three units is almost 7,500 miles which includes many shopping jaunts.

Currently I have one EBike that is working and this morning the controller started smelling like burnt plastic. I suspect it will be the blue wire from the controller to the hub as that is the one that most folks have issues with. Here is what I can state and am not sure where to go from here. I am now going to be replacing my third controller. This is the weak link in their kits. Yes their service is great, yes they have shipped in the past replacement parts but when a year is gone, beware. Controllers cost a hundred bucks plus 30 dollars shipping. Yes I have the small yellow box and the eye-hole connector mod.

All I can tell you is that their kits and service have other than that been top notch.

A few photo op links of what I have built and ride and oh, I don't worry about the pedal guys in their tights ;) on 6 thousand dollar bikes being passed by a 98 dollar bike...Pun intended.

The 98 dollar walmart bike...

My original EZip that croaked on me, reborn!

My ETrike which is right now Croaked until I can get it fixed or trashed.

I am wondering if anyone knows another controller that will plug in to the Papamotors unit and Ping Battery. Or if anyone knows which controllers Papamotors uses. Maybe there is a higher end model that won't fry on me.

EBikeFL 02-22-14 09:08 PM


Originally Posted by slickdude (Post 16518684)
Great Thread thanks everyone. I own 3 Papamotors kits.

I am wondering if anyone knows another controller that will plug in to the Papamotors unit and Ping Battery. Or if anyone knows which controllers Papamotors uses. Maybe there is a higher end model that won't fry on me.

Three Papamotor kits and here I was thinking I was a big fan of their 1KW 48v setup with two kits. :)

If you replace the stock Papamotor hub motor rim with a wider one...say the SunRingle MTX 39 (39mm wide) and use Schwalbe Big Apple tires in the 2.35in size you'll have a much better feeling when you're riding at 30+ mph. :thumb:

I'm using Lyen's controllers now though the new Papamotor version 1.5 controllers may be much better than their original version 1 controllers. Lyen's controllers are incredible and they plug directly into the Cycle Analyst.

Where are you located slickdude? This thread has Papamotor riders from all parts of the globe.

I've made some specialized parts for the Papamotor kit...but that's probably not something you're interested in. ;)

Delphinus 02-23-14 03:19 AM

How well do the 1000w 48v kits do uphill? I live up a reasonable hill. 2nd gear in the car. I've mapped the various routes I can take on google maps which tell me (for the steep bit):
Gain of 112m altitude over 1km. Average slope 12%, max slope 28%
Gain of 132m over 1.5km. Average slope 9%, max slope 30%.

If taken one of the street legal 300W Smartmotion ebikes for a test ride and it wasn't able to cope. I would like to be able to bike up this hill without working up a sweat. I work from home and usually do about 3 return trips up and down this hill a day.

EBikeFL 02-23-14 09:45 AM

I would say to use's simulator but it only goes to 20% on slope. You would need to get more rubber on the road and use a wider tire like I'm using. You will not see 30+ mph going uphill. In addition, if there's any wind coming down the slope at you it's game over, you'll go faster by walking. :( If you have to stop in the middle of your ascent up the slope it's going to be hard to get moving again. You could help the motor by using the proper gear ratio on the bicycle while pedaling too.

The trips down the slope would be interesting to say the least. You may set a new speed record for the Papamotor 1KW 48v setup. :thumb: If you had regenerative braking configured that would extend your brake pads and recharge your battery.

Contact Papamotor and ask them to forward your name and contact info to the closest Papamotor 1KW 48v owner in Dunedin. Hopefully, there's at least one. The owner may let you attempt the climb on their e-bike. You may be able to use a smaller rim size and increase the torque. Lastly, there may be some California Papamotor riders who make similar climbs in their region that may respond to you.

You could also use's Stokemonkey kit:
This kit was designed to handle slopes. :)

Send us a google maps link to your hill. I'm curious to see this monster climb. :)

Delphinus 02-23-14 03:24 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Hi EBikeFL, thanks for your comments.

Here are the links to the map + screenshot of path from google earth.

First path:

Alternate path:

And there is the even steeper route:

Yep it is slow going on the mountainbike on the way up. Absolutely lowest gear and you're moving around walking pace. On the way down, thats another story. Friend of mine I'm pretty sure exceeds 80km/h (nearly 50mph). She has bigger balls than me.

Good call re. contacting a local papamotor user. Will try that.

Mid-drive motors, yes I've been considering that as well. They look like a bit more work to install though? If possible I'd like to do it on a normal pushbike, not a cargo bike.

Delphinus 02-25-14 09:13 PM

Got a reply from Papamotor. Unfortunately they responded thus:

Our motor is designed for high speed on the flat road. It can't fit the long steep slope you told us. So pity.

We sold the kit to NZ, but no buyer in your city. So sorry.

So I've decided to try a mid drive instead. look good and fantastic service from them as well so far with all my email questions.

EBikeFL 02-25-14 10:21 PM

Good news, Delphinus. Yeah, hub motors don't do all that great on steep hills.

Keep us posted on the mid-drive setup. If you get a chance to do a video of your ride up and down those hills of yours with the mid-drive setup I'm sure we'd all love to see it. :)

EBikeFL 03-13-14 10:34 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Just finished another great ride tonight. I traveled 15 miles using less than 10 Ah and averaged 30 mph with a light wind behind me on some parts of the commute. There wasn't much traffic on the roads and I got caught to less than five traffic lights which made the ride short and fast. I hopefully got a few car drivers thinking about alternate ways of traveling.

My second Papamotor 48v 1000w hub motor is installed after all the modifications I made to it. I think I have the most advanced Papamotor setup so far. ;) I replaced the Hall sensors with Honeywell SS41 sensors from Lyen and painted the internals with high temp paint to stop any and all rust. I also installed a temp sensor that I'll use with my CA v3. You can see the before and after pictures below of the paint job and the start of the channel for the temp sensor wires. I also made modifications to the rear hydraulic brake so now the entire brake pad makes contact with the 203 mm rotor unlike on my first setup which leaves 2 mm of padding unemployed. I also cut the excess hydraulic brake lines and re-bled both sides.

This second e-bike will have hub motor temp sensor capability, regenerative braking, and a highly modified electric brake handle/sensor which also connects to the CA v3 not to mention security measures using Pitlock. I also have pictures of the first few CNC'd parts I had fabricated to show a bit later. I've attached a few pictures below of the modified hub motor internals:

EBikeFL 03-15-14 09:51 AM

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The picture below shows three PAS brackets. The stock Papamotor PAS bracket on the left I broke trimming it to fit my 39 mm bottom bracket. The large one on the right is the shop mistaking inches for millimeters in my 3D drawing file and the one in the middle is the shop reworking the 3D file using the correct units of measurement. I painted the middle PAS bracket but made sure not to get any paint on the center bottom bracket hole's inside diameter since the tolerance is so tight.

Stay tuned...more to come! :thumb:

EBikeFL 03-22-14 11:49 AM

I just came across this article in Yahoo:

American car drivers are paying close to $10,000/year to use their vehicles. SUV owners are paying over five figures. If you need convincing on why you should ride an e-bike, the article is a good example. The e-bike will pay for itself before it's a year old! :thumb:

EBikeFL 04-01-14 12:12 AM

Climate change messages are getting more prevalent. NBC Nightly News opened their reporting segment on 3/31/2014 with this video piece: No One Is Immune: Study Offers Bleak Climate Change Outlook - NBC News

If you're sitting on the fence whether to make the switch to electric transportation and if the cost savings aren't enough to win you over then maybe the drastic climate changes coming to ALL of us very soon will do it.

Here's another good video:

Gas is now $3.50 here in Orlando, Florida and if it goes to $8 like it is in Europe then I'm not sure what will be left of our social structure though Europeans seem to be coping with it.

I've noticed drivers get angrier and angrier as the price of gas goes up and they tend to vent their anger via their driving. I also noticed the number of questions about my e-bike seems to spike as the price of gas goes up. Hopefully with the most recent message from the IPCC and UN price won't be the only reason why people start looking at alternate methods of transport.

In other news, Schwalbe has come out with their new "flatless" Marathon Plus tire The NEW "FLATLESS" | Schwalbe North America.

The only negative part of the new tire is that 26" x 2" is the biggest size they have. :( If anyone in the e-bike community has tried these new tires please let us know. They are rated to 50 kph. :thumb:

FMB42 04-01-14 12:01 PM


Originally Posted by EBikeFL (Post 16601293)
American car drivers are paying close to $10,000/year to use their vehicles. SUV owners are paying over five figures. If you need convincing on why you should ride an e-bike, the article is a good example. The e-bike will pay for itself before it's a year old! :thumb:

Nice work EbikeFL (and a great thread)!

Btw, your statement that "SUV owners are paying over five figures" is incorrect. Over five figures would mean six figures, and the link you provide does not indicate such a figure ($11,600 a year is still only five figures).

Anyway, ten years ago my wife and I decided to move away from the crowed big city lifestyle and into a smaller community were our commutes, and regular driving distances, are greatly reduced. I'll also mention that I built my 36v 10Ah legal 20 mph geared hub motor e-bike for well under a thousand dollars. So, according to the article you linked, the average vehicle driver would pay off my e-bike in about a month. That too is a pretty good pitch for e-bikes if you ask me.

Meanwhile, it's good to realize that the vast majority of of us are using only a tiny fraction of the energy that likes of Al Gore blows through in a month.

EBikeFL 04-01-14 12:29 PM


Originally Posted by FMB42 (Post 16631957)
Btw, your statement that "SUV owners are paying over five figures" is incorrect. Over five figures would mean six figures, and the link you provide does not indicate such a figure ($11,600 a year is still only five figures).

Good catch FMB42. Yeah, six figures would be way too much. So what are you using for tires and what sizes have you used? ;)

Singa 08-13-14 09:32 PM

So if I need only to travel 10km per day (5km each way to work) should I just get the 10AH battery instead of 15AH? (It saves me 151$)

If I order this:

with the 10AH one (I save a lot of money, and I am short on money)

48 Volt LiFePO4 Battery Packs with BMS (Battery Management System)

EBikeFL 08-14-14 07:28 AM

The 10Ah would work but I wouldn't recommend going lower than 15Ah. The Papamotor 48v 1000w kits have incredible potential. Once you install the kit it will become apparent to you.

You'll need to install this rear wheel kit on your GT with the disc brakes. Read through the last 10 pages of this thread and make as many changes to your bike as I've done. You'll need to get a strong rear bicycle rack; I've mentioned all the parts needed in previous posts in this thread with hyperlinks.

I would also invest in a very strong bicycle lock, OnGuard Brute locks are very good. Get the biggest U-lock you can afford, >$50.

Save as much money as possible to purchase all the necessary upgrades (Cycle Analyst from, etc.) you'll eventually want and you'll have an incredible performing e-bike.

EBikeFL 05-02-15 09:45 PM

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Long distance testing with the 48v 45Ah setup. As you can see I still have one square and a whole row left after 40.9 miles.
I average 27 mph with a high of 33 mph.

The current setup can be converted to a 72v 45Ah setup very easily and that is what I have planned for the first e-bike. It will mean replacing the 48v 1000w Papamotor with the Crystalyte 4080 (35 mph) or 40100 (39 mph).

The Crystalyte 4080 will still give me the same range but at an average 35 mph and 15 lbs extra weight in batteries using the 72v setup. :)

I don't think there are any members here that want to go 40+ miles at 27+ mph. ;)

Stay tuned...more to come! :thumb:

SpecialX 05-03-15 01:45 PM

I regularly do 50-55 miles at 20mph and 40-45 miles at ~25mph, using a 48v 30ah battery with a 48v 25a controller and a GM 48v 1000w motor. (HBS-48v1000w). That's about 25wh/mile.

When I get the chance (re:money), I'm going to change over my controller to a 60v (25a) one and run my 12v 40AH TS battery pack in series with my 48v 30ah one. I should be able to get 30mph at about the same mileage (roughly 50 miles). Or approx 36wh/mile.

So you have at least ONE member here who will be doing what you're going to accomplish too.

EBikeFL 05-03-15 10:00 PM

The trick is to balance mileage, speed, and weight (batteries). At 25 amps you must take awhile to get up to speed; however, I agree about keeping the amps to the total amp-hours or less of the batteries. A 1C or less discharge rate will give you a longer life-cycle on the batteries.

There is also the physical and mental stress on the rider going such long distances. A ride at 20 mph for over two hours through traffic can be exhausting. The faster the rider can cover the distance the better they'll be at the end of the trip assuming a smooth road surface which will allow you to maintain higher speeds.

A 72v 45Ah setup using LiFePO4 batteries will weigh 60 lbs! Just the batteries themselves. Then you've got to add the bike, motor, rider, etc. You're looking at on average a 275-300 lbs setup. All this weight puts stress on all the components of the bike...wheels, tires, spokes, etc.

Now do all of this and still be able to haul two bags/two panniers of groceries/cargo. It certainly is a challenging task. ;)

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