julie0217

Hello fizbiz,
Your Trek 7.3 looks very nice.
Firstly,do you mind telling me the size of your 8 speed freewheel here?
If you don't know the exact size of your freewheel.
May you can offer me the brand and model of your freewheel?
So that I can search the size of your freewheel online directly.
Besides,here I'd like to give you two suggestions as below:
1).If you use PAPAMOTOR Kit fixed 6 speed freewheel, and wanna use their E-brake handles(E-brake handles can cut off the motor power directly) to replace of your original brake handles.You have to purchase a new separate derailleur for the 6 speed freewheel use.As I know, your 8 speed Deore derailleur is attached with your original brake handles together.
2).If you insist on keeping your original brake handles,you can also use your original derailleur Provided the 6 speed freewheel size is suitable.However,honestly, considering for the safety,usually PAPAMOTOR will suggest every customer to install their E-brake handles.Otherwise,you can use the thumb/twist throttle to cut off the motor power only.It's very dangerous.
Look forward to geting your reply.
Thank you

EBikeFL 

Hello, fizbiz.

The Trek 7.3 FX (https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes...ness/fx/7_3_fx) is nice but the v-brakes may not have enough stopping power. If the Trek is brand new, you may be able to get the vendor (LBS) from where you purchased it to switch it to a Trek model with disc brakes such as the Trek 7.2 FX Disc or the Trek 7.4 FX Disc.

Anyway, there are Papamotor users with v-brakes so you may be able to work with that brake setup. The 6-speed cassette will work, you'll just have a greater range that the rear derailleur moves that you don't need. You should be able to adjust the movement but on my setup, I didn't even touch it. The chain stays on the rear 11t cog 99.9% of the time.

If you have the combo shifters and you want to use Papamotor's brake handles then you'll have to get a separate shifter for the front and rear derailleurs. I used the following on my setup: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ms_ohs_product and https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ms_ohs_product.

I used a combination of thumb throttle and PAS which works great for me. If you have the 48t outer chainring then I think that's the biggest your chainstays will allow and you should also have enough clearance to install the PAS.

What are your plans for battery and controller storage? Also, what are roads (terrain) like where you plan on riding your e-bike? Hilly or flat? What's the average distance you plan on riding? Will you be coming back to your starting point to recharge the Ping battery or will you need to recharge when you get to your destination? What size tires do you have on your FX now?

fizbiz

PAS is not required right? I am basically looking for an electric motorcycle that is allowed to use bike lanes and does not require registration. Don't want to pedal at all. Terrain is relatively flat. Only need to do 10-15 miles a day so will charge at home. Are you happy with the quality of the kit? I just need it to last 1 1/2 years until I finish grad school. Maybe riding 50 miles per week with virtually no pedaling. Will stay with stock brake levers. Upgraded to kool stop salmons. I'll keep it under 20 (will leave limiter on). Will just need to be careful. I'm no stranger to fast 2 wheeled vehicles btw. Thanks for your input. Also, my cassettel is an 11-32 I believe.

EBikeFL 

No, PAS is not required but holding your thumb throttle or the twist throttle at the 20 mph mark for 10-15 miles isn't going to be fun after the first few days.

You'll be missing out on the joy of interacting with your Trek if you decide to treat it like an electric motorcycle. If cars are said to have souls then why can't bicycles have them too. My e-bike has a temperament of its own and I can feel its moods via my pedaling. If you're going to do 15 miles one way at 20 mph then you could make it back without carrying the battery charger but I don't think 20 mph will satisfy you, especially once you taste 30+ mph and travel on flat roads.

Yes, I'm happy with the quality of the kit. I've been trying to get Papamotor to implement a performance line of parts to go along with their 48v 1000w motor. I imagine they could purchase many of the parts I have on my e-bike now at lower costs by purchasing them in large volumes and pass the savings onto their customers. (Hint Julie0217) In fact, I have a second Papamotor 48v 1000w hub motor going through the same performance upgrades I made on the first one.

Oh, your Papamotor kit and Ping battery will last a lot longer than 1 1/2 years. In fact, in my situation I've estimated the Ping battery to last me about three years. Three years without using oil, gas, parking fees, car maintenance fees, and insurance fees! You'll want to change your major to something energy related once you ride the 1000w I guarantee it. You'll realize the possibilities as I have with the performance of this kit.

I can just see it now. You're going to be saying, "Why did I ever listen to you, EBikeFL! I'm addicted to riding my e-bike!" This 48v 1000w kit will change your views on what future transportation methods should be like. It's not too late fizbiz...you could always get an eZip from Walmart. I haven't used my car in 2 1/2 months!

Let me know when your ready to talk about how to carry your books and laptop on your e-bike and the Ping battery. You may be able to handle only so much excitement at once.

I wonder if Spirit733t has got his Papamotor kit up and running yet? Spirit733t you out there?

fizbiz

My main concern with going too quickly is getting doored. As such I will rarely sustain speeds much higher than 15 or 20. Also...in MA, bikes capable of more than 30 are considered electric motorcycles and need to be registered. Laws regarding e-bikes are understood by few due to the difficulty with classifying the new breed of vehicle. Unrestricted I believe the kit I want is capable of just over 30 so it's a fine line.

As for the excitement factor...it's all I can think about. You have officially convinced me to go ahead with the purchase. I love the fact that with my panniers on...only a knowing eye will be able to tell that I am in fact electric. Main reason I'm interested in discretion is to avoid having to explain laws to uninformed officers. This kit is going to make my life so much easier. Can't wait.

EBikeFL 

Yeah, riding in the city has its own dangers but I'm curious to know what are the speed limits on the streets you will be riding on? If the speed limits are 35-40 mph, you'd be better liked by the motorists who would see you more as another vehicle (which they should do regardless of whether you're electric or not) if you rode at 30 mph. I would take the lane in your situation; especially, if I had panniers on and the traffic lanes where less than 14 feet.

I get followed by officers all the time. It's nothing to be frightened of and certainly shouldn't be the main reason you refrain from doing 30 mph. I have more lights and visibility gear than the patrol cars that follow me. I even have my GoPro recording all the time which I know the officers have seen. Heck, when I had my hit and run, the officer asked to view my GoPro footage. It was pretty cool. Many of my friends call my e-bike a "swat bike" because with the front fairing it looks like something the police would use. Looking at Google maps, there's plenty of bicycling routes in MA. You may be the ambassador for e-bikes in that area. I wouldn't even wait for a confrontation with an officer. I would go to the police station, dressed in all my safety gear and GoPro, and show the officers the e-bike. Let them get to know who you are and what your e-bike looks like. Once the barrier is broken they'll be more receptive to seeing you on the streets and realize what your e-bike is capable of doing.

I'm really jealous, you're going to make a huge impact in MA. You should look at starting your own university e-bike club. I would definitely get the biggest bicycle lock (like the one I have) because everyone will want your e-bike.

Well, your homework then is to read as many of the pages on this thread in preparation for installing and using your Papamotor 48v 1000w setup, if you haven't done so already. Papamotor kit users on this forum are increasing in numbers and any one of them will assist you including me.

Here are the two videos I have so far of my e-bike in action while you're waiting on your kit to arrive:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9Lm-uOkhRM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ca9sRlqOok

spirit733t

hey all,

yeah Im still here lol... I hav 'nt ordered the kit yet but will do so within a couple of weeks, I was waiting for the Busy January and December postal rush to be over otherwise there may have been delays and who knows even lost items.

I made my mind on getting the 36 Volt kit, but after reading your recent posts im really tempted on buying the 48 V again...


Im already planning on putting new stronger rims on the wheel and basically kind of doing what you did with your kit.

Ebike.. how does the kit handle in the rain.. I think we need to come up with solutions to waterproof the throttle and other exposed parts.

in the meantime I really recommend that you buy the moonshield 60 lumens rear light, its so cheap in comparison to other powerful rear lights and it is such an amazing light.. well built and highly visible..

Im really happy with my dual lezyne 400 lumens lights.. ok they may have been slightly costly, but they have in built batteries and again well built and no messy wires all over the place.

I also would like papamotor to sell high end kits as well, like maybe BMC geared hubs or crystalyte motors, with high end controllers.. it would be a one shop for all kind of place..

Papamotor is building a solid relationship with its clients and has excellent customer service... and having these higher kits would ensure it has lots more recognition.

by the way... just to be clear on the rear brake solution.. so can I use my stock hydraulic brake pads and simply fit the wheel and disc rotor will slide into the brakes as per my normal rear wheel and disc? I am a little unclear on this so your help would be much appreciated..

ok take care all

EBikeFL 

The 48v 1000w setup is the way to go, Spirit733t.

All the performance parts I've installed really make a big difference; especially the bigger width rims which allowed me to use wider tires.

Performance in the rain has been great. I was a bit concerned I would slip and slide everywhere but I've never had the rear wheel give me that feedback in the rain. I've got the new Schwalbe Big Apple tires on the way. I like the Schwalbe Fat Frank tires I have on now but the spacing between the threads decreases the contact area on the ground. The Fat Frank tires have Kevlar protection but the Big Apple tires have Schwalbe's RaceGuard protection which doesn't sound as protective as Kevlar. Now, Schwalbe's website has a note that the Big Apple tires will have a Green Guard strip of protection but I don't know if that was included on the set of tires I ordered.

If you use my current battery carrying setup there's no need to waterproof any of the e-bike components. They all stay nice and dry.

Nice. The Dinotte front head light I have now really works great except when it's raining and that's only because the front fairing gets wet and scatters the light. The front pannier brackets I just received may provide a solution and allow me to move the light in front of the fairing.

Papamotor's 48v 1000w hub motor hasn't given me any problems so far (knock on wood) so they could get a reputation like Crystalyte as the years progress. Crystalyte had to start somewhere and I believe we are seeing another great company in Papamotor taking shape.

Yes, that is correct; however, you must use a 203mm disc rotor and brake bracket adapter. I tried using a 180mm disc rotor on the back and it didn't work using the stock bike rear brake hanger. I'm preparing to install the front panniers on my bike and may go to a 203mm Ice Tech rotor on the front as well. The disc rotor clearance with the 180mm I have now though is very tight so we'll have to wait and see. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

I just realized that the rear Shimano 6-speed cassette from ebike.ca starts at 14t and not 11t. This would explain why I'm still not able to contribute to the motor at 30 mph even with the upgraded 48t outer chain ring. I'll come up with a solution for e-bike #2. The Kona Lanai chain stays look like they'll allow me to use a 50t outer chain ring which may get me closer...I haven't done the calculations yet.

I'm using CAD software to build the new battery carrier. I've so far programmed and designed a Ping 48v 15 Ah battery and the corner guards I used in CAD and the results are fantastic. I can rotate the whole assembly in 3D! I have some components of the new battery carrier already delivered but it will still be a while before I see anything physical take shape. I have some new ideas for the carrier but would like to talk to some of the NASA engineers to get some feedback on how they built the components of the Mars Rovers. I'm not too far away from the Kennedy Space Center.

julie0217

Hey Spirit,
Nice to see you here again:-)
I'd like to tell you that we have come back to work for many days.
As I know, the December and January busy delivery have been over these days.
And we all will have a traditional Chinese Spring Festival Holiday from Feb 9th to Feb 17th,2013.
It means there will really be a postponement if you make your order at that time.
Anyway, we make sure you won't lost any items finally
Personally, if you make the order right now.
Maybe you can get your whole kits before our Spring Festival Holiday starts.
It would be great!
Alright, please feel free to contact me if you have any more questions.
Thank you so much

EBikeFL 

Julie0217, I hope you will not be outdoors near Beijing during the Chinese Spring Festival Holiday. The air quality right now in Beijing is in the extremely dangerous zone. Papamotor customers want you to live a very long, healthy life.

julie0217

Hi EbikeFL,
Thank you very much for your concern and blessing.
Fortunately,I won't stay ourdoors near Beijing during my Spring Festival Holiday.
I sincerely hope you all live a long & healthy & happy life too.
Many thanks:-)

sammy5001

Oh sweet just got the battery (finally). Took them a while to ship it out but once they did it arrived in 3 days.

One issue though: the black/red wires on my circuit breaker seem to be different as compared to https://www.electric-bikekit.com/temp...n/pic1.1-1.jpg.

On the website picture: the black wire is connected to the circuit breaker and red wire is connected to the glass tube fuse.
On my circuit breaker: it's the opposite.

Does this matter?

I have 2 options:

(1) connect battery/black-wire to circuit-breaker/black-wire, and thus keep it consistently reversed
(2) connect battery/black-wire to the circuit-breaker/red-wire to match it against the picture on their website

Any suggestions?

EBikeFL 

I believe that's an old picture. The circuit breaker should have the red wire going into and out of it with the black wire on the outside.

What are your plans to house the Ping battery?

sammy5001

Thanks for the help! I housed the battery on the rear rack and the rear is heavy as hell now.
At any rate, the build is done and I took it out for a spin in the parking lot. It's sweet!
One thing though is that I have to apply throttle super gently when starting off or the bike will do a wheelie really easily.
Pics to follow when I get time.

fizbiz

So I got my kit a few days ago and have been working on it (no rush as the battery has not arrived yet). I had a question about the torque bars though. The squared out hole for the axle to go through is a few millimeters wider than the axle. Not nearly enough that it can rotate in it, but enough that the torque will be applied to a point rather than a surface. It seems to me that will cause the steel to distort over time (maybe days, weeks, or months). Have others used the supplied torque arms with success? I was going to drill out a hole in the second piece (the one that generally gets clamped to the frame) and screw it into my fender mounting hole. I imagine that would be stronger than hose clamps, and more importantly more rigid.

EBikeFL 

I'm using the universal rear torque arms from ebike.ca and haven't any problems. They're a bit expensive but it's worth the peace of mind knowing the rear is secure. I use two hose clamps on each side with those 1/4 inch torque arms (hose clamps come with the torque arms) https://www.ebike.ca/store/photos/TorqArmRev4.jpg. Also, you will want to place a thin gasket material or rubber piece between where the torque arm touches the bicycle frame to prevent it cutting into the frame's paint.

Of course, the Kona Lanai didn't have any free play with the hub motor axle, it fits like a glove. Look through this thread's pages and you'll find a picture of my setup.

Please take some pictures for us of your current setup. I'm not sure about your reference to the "second piece".

sammy5001

Pics of my build as promised.

Bike: Dahon Vector P8
Kit: Papamotors 48V 1000W RWD

I've put ~10 miles on this bike so far.
* Easily maintains 24mph on the flat.
* I was able to maintain 20mph on a hill. Don't know what the slope was but IIRC (from a long time ago) it's ~7%.
* SUPER quick acceleration from a stop.
* Maxes out at 24mph on the flat which I think it's due to the 20" wheel size. This is more than sufficient for me. Frankly I feel uncomfortable going downhills at 30mph+ on this 20" bike even without the electric kit.
* Stills folds and does not affect the footprint (compared to w/o the kit) so I can still fit it in my cube and he-man lift it onto a bus.

My only concern right now really is the weight distribution of the bike. As it stands, there's like ~50lb on the rear and maybe ~10lb in the front. I really have to baby the throttle from a stop otherwise I pull a wheelie easily. I compensate by leaning forward which so far is working out fine.

The bigger problem is the weight overall which makes it hard to lift and move. I'm brainstorming some mods that allows me to put the battery back on the flat frame post to bring the weight distribution forward a little. More importantly, allow me to make the battery more easily removable.

julie0217

Hi Fizbiz,
I think you can get the battery pack soon.
About the torque arms installation:
Please refer to our online user manual first.
Before you install the torque bar at the side with motor cable.
You should disassemble that 5 pins big housing first.
https://www.electric-bikekit.com/temp...ion/2.4.1.html
After you disassemble the housing,you can place into the torque bar successfully.
https://www.electric-bikekit.com/temp...ion/2.8.5.html
Actually our torque arms is designed for our kits use.
So it should be suitable for converting the E-bike.
You can also see the above Sammy5001's pictures.
Thank you

EBikeFL 

Wow, sammy5001! Your e-bike looks great. The Papamotor 48v 1000w hub motor looks huge on those 20" rims! I like the rear rack and the placement of the controller. You could probably paint the rear rim red to match the front.

Great job. I think you may have the first folding Papamotor e-bike.

fizbiz

So today was the day. Finally all systems were go and I went for a test ride. First impressions...this thing is quick. Good torque. I was expecting to have to pedal to get it moving, but even that is unnecessary (although I do anyways because it feels like a lot of stress to the components otherwise). It feels really fast. I'm actually wondering if I am in fact limited to 20 as I believe is the default on these kits. (Is that 20 mph an approximate based on an amperage limit, or is it an RPM limiter?)

I have only done about 10 miles so far so my one month review will be much more in depth and informative, but so far the only thing I don't like about the kit is the controller. Not that it doesn't function as advertised, but I feel that a few extra bucks spent on improving the finish would help inspire confidence in the unit. This company could do very well for itself with the exceptional customer service they provide but little things like this are a must if they are to do well in the US and UK. I am pleased about everything else in the kit. Electrical connectors are solid. Anderson powerpoles and XLR connectors. I LOVE that. No proprietary bull****. This makes repairs simple. Naturally, the Ping battery performs admirably. If the motor and controller prove to be reliable then this kit is hard to beat. How do I post pics?

EBikeFL 

Great write-up, fizbiz.

Welcome to the addiction.


Did you mean 30 mph?

The controller may not look pretty but it works. I had an issue with mine during the first month and Papamotor replaced it very quickly. If you can find a similar way of hiding the controller and wires as I did you will not have to worry about water issues or protecting the wires. I swapped out the bullet type connectors on the blue, green, and yellow wires from the motor and controller with Anderson connectors of the same color and love the changes. It's very easy to grip the wires and separate them and also to know if any of those connections are loose which doesn't happen now with the Anderson connectors but did with the bullet connectors.

I agree, everything is plug-in-play with other components should you decide to upgrade or replace.

Select the insert image icon next to the film strip looking icon. Make sure the images are jpeg, bmp files won't work. Image size also needs to be small (~ 1Mb).

Let's see some pictures!!

fizbiz

I thought these kits were set to a 20 mph limit by default? I'm almost positive I read that earlier in the post. I was under the impression people removed some sort of limiter in order to achieve 30 mph and up.

That is a good idea about switching the bullet connectors to Anderson powerpoles. What amp connectors did you use? I imagine 20 amp connectors would be sufficient, but overrated equipment is never a bad thing. Do you actually use the crimping tool or just squeeze with pliers?

EBikeFL 

Negative. The 48v 1000w Papamotor kit is rated to 34 mph and does not have any limiter unless you consider your thumb or wrist as a limiter.

The 15-45 amp Anderson connector housings are all the same. You'll need to get the right size contacts for the two different sizes of wire. The wires from the hub motor are smaller than the same wires from the controller. Here's where I ordered the connectors and contacts: https://www.powerwerx.com/anderson-po...ings-contacts/

I used connector housing colors that matched the colors of the wires. You may want to get a few extra pieces of everything in case you make a mistake crimping.

I used a crimping tool which is a good investment for future repairs/modifications. You should be able to pick one up at RadioShack, Home Depot, or Loews.

julie0217

Hello fizbiz,
So sorry to see your bike can reach 20mph only.
May I know which throttle (thumb or twist)did you install on your bicycle?
Usually it will be caused by the incorrect throttle installation.
If you install the thumb,please note there is a ring which should be installed together.
Sometimes when we place the ring in an improper position (get stuck)which will affect the speed a lot.
Personally,please double check the throttle installtion.
If your bike can still reach 20mph after you checked everything.
Please feel free to contact us then.
Your kindly understanding will be appreciated so much.
Best regards

fizbiz

Thanks for the response Julie, but it is working just fine. I never actually measured my speed. I just thought there was a limiter based on a previous post (prob for a different kit).