Scaliboy62

Check the huge list of high end e-bikes that use this system or a variation of it designed by Bosch, some of the companies offer different drive units like Grace which offers Bionx hub motor drives too with a neat belt instead of chain, also check the video great eye candy @ the end
https://www.bosch-ebike.de

EBikeFL 

Very nice but I did notice they only guarantee the battery to 500 recharge cycles. I know Bosch is well known for their spark plugs.

Scaliboy62

Hmmmm that is pretty low 500 hours, I wonder how that compares to Panasonic's system's guarantee . You would think Bosch's R&D team is on the cusp of the latest battery technology also maybe this design creates a bigger load on the battery compared to the hub design motors ?

Allen

In real terms that is probably a two to five year warranty. That is about as good as you are going to find.

Allen

500 cycles, not hours.

charlieg

Looks like this will be my first forum post what grabbed me when searching the mid-drive world was this Bosch. I went to well known maker Cannondale and they have a beautiful E-Series but I can't find US dealers..any info would be appreciated. BTW..I'm so happy I found a solid e-bike forum, thanks

powell

yes it is candy for an eye.
does BIONX offers like 1000 cycles battery , do not think so.
in picture on site ebike shown with Bosh system in frame ABOVE lowest tube of frame - dramatic improvement over Cyclone BB drive and other BB drives where motor hangs low BELOW frame. Bosh designed it to last and endure with everthing sealed with parts fitting with precision for all kind of weather.

charlieg

Powell, are you able to get E-Series up there?
I called a large local Cannondale dealer and they aren't sure they can or will get it..old school MandPop with excellent machanics but still still not hip to the e-bike market but I think they are looking closer at this E.

powell

NO it is not available , might be in Vancouver, but not in central provinces of Canada.
https://www.electricbike.com/bosch-cannondale/
From this VERY comprehensive review it is evident how high tech and wonderfull e system it is.

Mabman

I got the opportunity at the Demo Day part of Interbike in Sept. to ride a Bosch equipped Kreidler. Let me just say that it did not disappoint my expectations. I have ridden many different types of e bike systems and it was by far the most intuitive of any I have tried. You pedal it goes, you pedal harder it goes harder but such that you cannot really feel it happening because it is so smooth. There were two brands at the show, Kreidler that was there looking for a distributor and HaiBike that is being distributed by the same people that do IZip.

Unfortunately at this time Bosch is choosing to focus solely on the EU market and their 250w/35kmh requirements although they have started to make a 450w/28mph system that will fit in to moped laws in SUI and the DE. So while there are a couple of EU brands becoming available, the Cannondale is strictly overseas oddly enough, it will be awhile before Bosch will fully support their brand here in the US. Too bad.

Dux_Helm

Stromer uses Samsung cells, but they guarantee the battery for 700 cycles, which is a bit better, but not crazy.

I would like to point out though that this is counted by Ah not every time you plug a battery in.
So if you plug the batter in at..say 50% charge, the system will count that as 1/2 charge.
So if you always charge at 50%, that is 1000 plug-ins (1400 for Stromer).

That is how long the battery is GUARANTEED for, so it SHOULD last longer.

powell

how may cycles?
it very, very much depends on user.
somehow some owners cannot get it that
they should charge at every opportunity in general.
The more shallow discharges the longer battery life.
Full discharges are big NO, NO with all batteries chemistries.

magic carpet

I see you guys drooling over German technology are both 'Left-coasters'. I bought a Canadian mid drive bike with its own patented motor system and the company is located in Vancouver, just around the corner from both of you! The Epik could be even better than the Bosch and for a lot less money. The batteries are made by Leyden Energy who supply Brammo and are claimed to have twice the number of recharge cycles of most other makes. My other bike is a new BionX 350 DT on an Opus Zermatt and it is an awesome piece of machinery. My Epik Whistler is equally fantastic for considerably less money.

100bikes

Being a typical German company, Bosch is taking a complete market approach before they bring their drive system to the US.

With over 40 nameplates using the system in Europe, this central drive model is definitely one to watch.

Bocsh will be entering the US market in time for the 2014 season. The word is that Haibike, part of the Accell/Currie Tech family will be the first model available for sale in the US. Pricing should be in the $2850 to $3550 range, with a dual suspension model on the horizon.

According to Bosch people, the company wants to have a full compliment of customer service, technology support and warranty systems in place before they ship the first model into the US.

Scaliboy62

I believe his may be " the shot in the arm " the Industry or E-bike hobby/culture needs here in the USA, I wonder if they're going to offer a kit as well ?

Allen

No. Like the Panasonic system the Bosh system has to be hung on a specially made frame.

magic carpet

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Since there seems to be either a cultural bias or inferiority complex at work here, let me put it a different way.

Mercedes Benz buys Hubmotors from BionX in Canada and ship them to Germany where they install them in Smart Ebikes. They are arguably the best hubmotor system in the world.

Epik is a Canadian designed, crank drive Ebike with a proprietorial, co-axial motor and patented battery design that offers nearly twice the number of charge cycles as Bosch.

I prefer the Epik's fully internal to the bottom bracket, motor over any other German or Japanese design for it's stealth, protection and appearance.

The Epik is not a 250 watt, Euro spec motor and easily hit's the legal speed limit, to say the least. No Bosch or Panasonic, bottom bracket drive Ebike is faster.

My Epik Whistler sells for less than $2000 and has been 100% reliable.

The Epik is arguably the best bottom bracket drive system in the world and iike the BionX is a Canadian product.

I'm pleased Bosch is investing in Ebikes, but will stick with my Home Grown, BionX hub and Epik BB Ebikes, danka.

Mike

100bikes

One other issue concerns the CHARGE CYCLES, or the number of proposed cycles more accurately.

Batteries will have a certain usable life expectancy and charge cycles are one way of comparing them.

While 500 charge cycles seems low, expecially for a battery that can retail north of $500. The term charge cycle is one complete chage from basically dead to fully charged and then depleted to dead once again.

In earlier generation of LI Ion batteries complete discharge was the best method to exptend the life and range of the battery. Modern BMS(battery management system) have all but eliminated the need for the complete discharge of the battery before recharging and eliminates the need for exercising the battery as well. Generally a rider will deplete a % of the full charge - say 25%. If this were always the case, you would achieve 2000 charge cycles( 2000 charge cycles at .25 of a charge will yield 500 full charges).