Scaliboy62

The reason why in my opinion many bike shops shy away from selling E-Bikes are the following first being is theses things are not for your average person.
E-Bikes need more maintenance then a regular bike, especially spokes also they get more flats then regular bikes & they are harder to fix the flats . I think that in order to own any brand e-bike you need to be a pretty good mechanic, also have had a lot of experience riding bicycles for many miles or better yet have cut your teeth on motorbikes for years.
Even though the gearless hub motors are whisper quiet & smooth the controllers are more complicated & they do fail I dont care what brand bike.
There's other issues that come when you electrify a bicycle it's harder on the components, brakes wear out faster, seat rails flatten easier, kick stands break easier, rims bend easier, tires wear faster.. Then there's the batteries, if you dont give the battery love, balance the charging, dont use the bike untill it's a dead battery as often as possible, leave it out in the rain, you'll be asking for a warranty replacement . Last & not least the average consumer today demands excellent customer service & warranty's with an E-Bike there's too many intangibles as far as things that can & will go wrong if not used & maintained properly. I was thinking about becoming a dealer as many others were or are but I could imagine the headaches, plus I wouldnt want to sell them to anyone under 18 years old & some of the cheaper bikes with cheap lithium batteries & cheap chargers scare me as fire hazards..so theres a lot of concerns being an E-Bike dealer. Look @ companies like Trek they cut their E-Bike line in 1/2 something like that to 3 models. & I think Prodeco is in for a surprise offering a 2 year warranty..

powell

Adrian
you mix up "made in China" with "China brand".
there is "China brand" with no connection to Western company and there is Western company manufacturing in China , 2 different animals.
Again China brand has usually no connection to any Western entity
many western companies move production faciities to China.
- Sony camera is same quality made in China or made in Japan, Sony use exact same robots in China in production environmant with supervision but with Chinese labour.

two people here said they spoke to bicycle shops who would not sell China brands I also spoke to one who would not sell them.
editing is not against any rules here , may correct spelling, people add things to posts later,

AdrianFly

It's cool friend.

One thing I've noticed is that a company (let's say Ezip who makes the Trailz) can make a thousand bikes bikes and if 5 of them turn out to be lemons.. then you can bet your back bacon that those buyers will be slamming them endless sphere-ingly style right into the dirt.. along with competitors posing as other Ezip users to discredit them.

It's E-wolf pack mentality that ends up making the whole electric bike movement look like a hobbyists experimental joke and suspends potential sales of Ebikes for ALL companies involved. Youtube vids that show kids with 1000w motors doing wheelies or throttling around in the dirt are useless as well. A couple grand for a "kit" that is essentially a toy, thumbed up by a thousand teenagers isn't a sound nor wise decision. Then again, if parents paid for it who cares how long it will last or if you'll end up back on Endless Sphere trying to figure out what went wrong. If Endless Sphere isn't there to back up my malfunctioning garbage..then who will? At the very least they will make you feel special. Very special.

Crispus, decide on a price you want to pay for a bike and then research ALL companies thoroughly that offer Ebikes in your price range. Customer Service and Warranty are key to this movement going Professionally Mainstream. Select a company that sincerely appreciates your interest in their product and is willing to talk to you about it in detail over the phone. If you are near a facility that manufactures the bikes then ask for a tour. View, touch and experience the build process. Be sure to see the interior of the mid-drive system/motor. Be sure to ask them what they expect in return from their customers. Pick a random employee in the assembly area and ask them how they REALLY feel about the bike. Be sure to stand close enough to sense whether or not they've got booze on their breath. Inquire to see whether or not they are aware of increasing reports of downtube mounted Lithium Ion batteries causing permanent Erectile Disfunction Disorder (EDD).

The other option is to follow the human instinct of gambling and just "pull the trigger" and buy something outright without fully researching. Might work.. it just might work. If this is your style then just grab an Ezip Trailz off Amazon. It's an affordable price, people love em and a good jump start into Ebiking.

fizbiz

I wonder why that is? I don't blame the consumer for the way the E-bike movement is going. You're right though. It does seem like a big experiment. I for one like to tinker and thought my E-bike would be a fun toy. I expect it to function reliably but it gives me something to work on since giving up my car to live in the city. Endless-sphere is not really the place for the average consumer though. I have a pretty good DIY aptitude and I am frequently lost in those forums. Those people are not consumers though, more like developers. Until someone provides what they are looking for out of the box they will continue making their own. That's the beauty of the E-bike, maybe more complicated than a standard bike, but still a beautifully simply and efficient machine. Motor, controller, battery. That's all you really need. I think many of the "China brand" motors have proven themselves to be very reliable. Controllers aren't really that expensive and some have earned a reputation for reliability. Finally, a good battery may be the single most expensive component, and while they can have problems (like everything else), a good brand will likely last you a very long time (assuming proper care).

fizbiz

"to be fair to papamotor RuggedRiderAUS had said the motor itself is good and the battery is excellent too, also he has said that he dropped the bike a few times, and has also ridden it off road a few times.. I think alot of kits would have same problems here if that was to happen..

also its not fair to be so judgemental on the kit when the price of the motor, controller, parts is under £250.. so your really paying for a top of the line Ping battery..

the better quality motors like bmc or crystalyte are normally around double that price and that is just for the motor alone.

But like I said. Thicker stator than the 9C or MXUS I also own."

I'm not saying this kit is top of the line, but that the company provides good service (at least while under warranty) and it may be a good foundation for upgrades when the time comes. Again, I have not ridden it much...why don't we postpone this debate for 6 months or so and I will give everybody an update on the kit's performance.

350htrr

Yes BionX is Canadian, so what, that is not the reason bike dealers I talked to favored it, it's their experiences with BionX and other makes that count... As for me dissing "chinese" E-Systems/parts if you read all of my comments in the last sentence, I actually said that if you know what you are doing you can put together a better system for yourself cheaper than the BionX system, so I dismiss your not so subtle hint of prejudice towards BionX... And what does editing something have to do with anything?

AdrianFly

Placing my comments together brings one to conclude that the Canadian Company BionX, which many Canadians are familiar with could possibly become as popular in the United States as Justin Bieber!

When you edit a post, it allows you a reason for editing. If no reason is given then I automatically conclude that I was originally referred to as a "Hoser" somewhere in there.


Is Crispus still with us? Crisp, have you decided on which direction you might go with the information that's been provided in the thread?

Crispus

I'm still here. You guys know a lot and I'm just sitting back taking it all in. Next time my budget allows,(and I buy a bike or system) I'll reference everyone's sound, sage, advice. muy gracias

Burton

Are you a certified cynic or what?
Just speaking for myself - I post from an iPhone that has three different language keyboards and ocasionally tries to autocorrect in the wrong language and I have to go back and edit. If I need someone to sign off on that to make it legit just point me to the right people for a signature!

Next - yeah - I'm Canadian. Which doesn't mean I'll stand behind everything Canadian just because its from this country. The shop I work with tries very hard to sell products based on their own merits and local products as much as possible. Which means we also carry Argon 1, Divinci and Cannondale bicycles as well as Velec and Bionx ebikes. Look them up - they're all considered world class products.

If you want some specifics on batteries - ALL the cells used in both the Bionx and Velec batteries are currently sourced from the three largest Japanese battery makers in the world - Sony, Panasonic and Samsung. Velec tried at one point to source batteries directly from China and even after having a rep onsite there for months - there were HUNDREDS of batteries that needed to be replaced under warranty because of faulty BMS integration. Same for motors - the designs are proprietary, not just some rebranded product that already existed. There has been a small Bionx assembly plant set up in China recently. The reason might surprise you since most operations are in Canada. Its for the benifit of Trek to support their plant already installed there and to cut down on their transportation costs.

Again, speaking for myself - I only work for people I can respect. Money is entirely secondary. And other than being qualified as a tech for the ebikes mentioned, I have no direct affiliations with the company. Everyone in the shop takes training courses with every company we work with every year including Shimano. Those are technical courses - NOT sales courses.

In Canada ebikes need to be certified to be able to be legally sold as ebikes. That means they have to respect certain limits to be exempt from some regulations and meet some safety standards to be considered safe for use by consumers. Add to that the need for local repairs and service and you need a parts distribution network and a dealer system to support the product locally. Shipping of lithium batteries is becoming an increasing challange and shipping costs of a single Bionx battery from Canada to the USA would be more than the battery cost itself. So local warehousing makes more sense. Its sill a work in progress as I understand it.

So if you'd rather deal directly with some company in China - by all means! Its your money. And if you want to believe that some of the people in this forum promoting those companies have no affiliations with those companies just because they're posting from the USA - that would make you really naive!

Rocketrobo

Great advice. I'll reference when I get one.

dhiltonp

I stopped by a bike shop in Switzerland last summer, and asked about their experience with ebikes.

In their opinion:

• Panasonic is a solid product and extremely reliable (I think Panasonic ebikes have been around for about 10 years)
• BionX is ok - it provides more power like the Bosch, but fails a lot more than the Panasonic
• Bosch runs well and has lots of power, but doesn't have the proven track record of Panasonic

I'd add that the BionX replacement battery cost is a big issue.

I have a mid-drive system (Kalkhoff w/ Panasonic), and it's worked well. Kalkhoffs range in price from $2000 to $5000.

It is worth pointing out that Panasonic systems have an extended frame. BionX and most Bosch ebikes can fit in cars and on bus bike racks better.

slickdude

7,500 miles on three ebikes with thorn proof tires and tubes, not a flat on any of them. Mostly maintenance free.

zydeco

I am up to 4k miles on my juicedriders ODKv2 and 3k on my Emaxi mipower. Both bikes are still running like a champ. The only issue that has cost me out of pocket is spokes. I attribute that to the fact I load both of these bikes beyond their intended weights and I rarely tension my spokes...

timmythology

I had my regular bike shop do my build. My ebike, like the other bikes that this shop maintains runs great. After my research i choose a system off e-bay from china that covered every item needed, and than installed on a LHDT. I have used for all sorts of rides including gravel, and light trails. I also use it for pulling a trailer. The bike has fell over, and had a light crash. As a non-technical user, I also have not had any issues with the system I purchased.

IMO though you do get what you pay for, and the aesthetics of the system like Bionx really beats the one I got from ebay. When people look at my no name system, they ask "whats that?" In time I would think that as a brand Bionx will add familiarity for people to identify with.

I like mine, and have not had a issue with it. The money saved on the e system purchased a new frame to hang it on.

pashlit

So what kit did you end up purchasing off Ebay? Ebay is also different. It has some cheapo-crappy kits you could buy for less than 300 bucks with shipping included and it also have nicer and more expensive stuff. Any model names/links/pictures/etc. would be very helpful. If you just say "I bought a kit off Ebay and is extremely happy with it...." doesnt really help.

timmythology

Well first and foremost, I researched quite a lot, so that I could understand the differences. The system I purchased from ebay (some ebay store) which included a 1000w rear wheel, 48v 15 ah battery, and everything to make that work.

From gleaning information on this forum, and comparing it to the proprietary dealers out there I was able to learn what I needed to get.