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Old 04-08-13, 11:13 AM   #1
chas58
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Small Geared hub motors speeds (RPM & mph)

Small Geared hub motors speeds (RPM)
Voltage is 36 volts, wheel is 26/700c unles otherwise indicated


Ok, that add that keeps poping up on the right ---->
makes the table hard to read, so I'll move the table to the second postition here...

Last edited by chas58; 04-08-13 at 11:16 AM.
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Old 04-08-13, 11:14 AM   #2
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Small Geared hub motors speeds (RPM)
Voltage is 36 volts, wheel is 26/700c unless otherwise indicated


Q100 Measured no load speeds.
  • 201rpm = 18 mph
  • 260rpm = 23 mph (calculated)
  • 300rpm = 28 mph (201rpm 24v Q100 run @36v)
  • 328rpm = 29 mph
Road speeds tend to be about 85% of no load speeds on this motor (assuming it has the power required to get to that speed)

Q100 measured road speeds
  • 201rpm = 15.5 mph
  • 260rpm = 20 mph (source: ES: D8Veh)
  • 300rpm = 23 mph (201rpm 24v Q100 run @36v) (rider assisted)
  • 328rpm = 25 mph (dual motor or rider assisted)

*Background
The 328 motor doesn't really have the power to do much over 20mph on its own without some type of assist. If run over 20mph, the controller, pulling maximum current and generates excess heat from this inefficiency. If put in a bag it will eventually overheat and fail. (I've run for years with the controller in open air with no problems).
I pedal at 24-26mph on a 328rpm on a road bike with 200-300 watts input from my legs.
Dave at ES has posted similar numbers, his road speeds are reported at:
328rpm = 25mph (two motors)
260rpm = 20mph
201rpm = 15mph
Q100 at 48V estimates (overvolting the 36v motor)
  • 36v-201rpm @ 48v-266rpm = 20mph (sweet spot for Q100)
  • 36v-260rpm @ 48V-345rpm = 26.4mph (pushing the envelope!)

Generic speed table
TOP SPEEDS & Range (from Papa motors)
Motor Type - Top Speed - Top Range - Battery
24V/500W 16mph (26KM/H) 17 M (28KM) 24V20AH
36V/500W 19mph (31KM/H) 19 M (31KM) 36V15AH
48V/500W 26mph (43KM/H) 26 M (43KM) 48V15AH
48V/1000W 32mph (52KM/H) 26 M (43KM) 48V15AH
24V/350W(Geared Motor) 14.29mph (23KM/H) 12.42 M (20KM) 24V9AH
36V/350W(Geared Motor) 16.77mph (27KM/H) 19.25 M (31KM) 36V9AH


Bafang BPM & CST (8fun) motor codes and RPM for 36v (from Bafang)
Code 08 is 378 rpm frt. and rear 48V slow-winds motors are Code 8
Code 09 is 335 rpm (motor code 16(9))
Code 10 is 300 rpm BMS: 48V 500w rpm393, rear, code 10 .
Code 11 is 280 rpm BMS: 48V 500w rpm393, Front. code 11.
Code 12 is 250 rpm
Code 13 is 230 rpm BPM 36V 350W front 201 rpm 26 (13) motor
Code 14 is 215
Code 15 is 205 rpm
Code 15 is 192 (BPM 36V500W 201rpm (code 15) )
For speed at 48V, use factor of 1.33 increase in motor speed.


MAC motor speeds (from http://em3ev.com)

6 turn high speed motor - 400rpm loaded at 36V; 6T - 45kph (28mph)
7 turn high speed motor- 350rpm loaded at 36V
8 turn standard motor - 320rpm loaded at 36V; 8T 39kph (24mph)
10 turn torque motor - 255rpm loaded at 36V 32kph (20mph); 10T 32kph (20mph) (STD KIT MOTOR)
12 turn low speed extra torque motor - 200rpm loaded at 36V; 12T 25kph (15mph)

Last edited by chas58; 08-29-16 at 01:14 PM.
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Old 04-20-13, 06:32 PM   #3
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Most of this is moonspeak to me, but I'd imagine these tables will be quite handy.

How much effect would tire size have on the top speed of a geared hub motor? Wider tire = bigger diameter = higher gearing = higher top speed?
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Old 04-23-13, 09:29 AM   #4
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The information is invaluable when figuring out how to build a geared hub motor bike. It really should be a sticky.

For starters, this is a great place to start. It gives a reasonably conservative estimate of the type of hub motor, what size battery pairs good with it, and what you can expect for top speed and range:



Motor Type - Top Speed - Top Range - Battery
24V/500W 16mph (26KM/H) 17 M (28KM) 24V20AH
36V/500W 19mph (31KM/H) 19 M (31KM) 36V15AH
48V/500W 26mph (43KM/H) 26 M (43KM) 48V15AH
48V/1000W 32mph (52KM/H) 26 M (43KM) 48V15AH
24V/350W(Geared Motor) 14.29mph (23KM/H) 12.42 M (20KM) 24V9AH
36V/350W(Geared Motor) 16.77mph (27KM/H) 19.25 M (31KM) 36V9AH


Tire size in general is not going to make too much of a difference, unless you make a big jump from 26x2.125 to 26x1.0 or 700c x 23mm to 700c x 52mm. Note that a 26" wheel with a 2.125" tire has roughly the same rolling diameter as a 700c wheel with a 23mm tires.

Wheel size will make a big difference. A 26" wheel will need a different motor (RPM) than a 20" wheel.
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File Type: jpg top speed and range.JPG (34.8 KB, 78 views)
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Old 04-23-13, 09:44 AM   #5
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Also, keep in mind that slower RPM does NOT mean high torque. A fast wind and a slow wind of the same motor will have similar torque ouput, but putting too fast of a wind on a big wheel will cause the motor to operate inefficiently, and generate too much heat.

The torque comes from the current (amps), speed from the voltage.
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Old 08-29-16, 11:21 AM   #6
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updated Q100 motor information based on my testing and new motor types.
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Old 08-30-16, 07:01 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chas58 View Post
Also, keep in mind that slower RPM does NOT mean high torque. A fast wind and a slow wind of the same motor will have similar torque ouput, but putting too fast of a wind on a big wheel will cause the motor to operate inefficiently, and generate too much heat.

The torque comes from the current (amps), speed from the voltage.
With all that in mind, what is the best way to get the most torque out of a Q100H geared front hub motor? Or maybe a better way to ask that (if I am understanding correctly) is how much amp's can a Q100H handle? Do any of the bottle battery built-in controllers have amp adjustments to get more torque?
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Old 08-30-16, 08:28 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by NoPhart View Post
With all that in mind, what is the best way to get the most torque out of a Q100H geared front hub motor? Or maybe a better way to ask that (if I am understanding correctly) is how much amp's can a Q100H handle? Do any of the bottle battery built-in controllers have amp adjustments to get more torque?
Good question!

Short answer: buy a physically bigger motor. A MAC is twice the size and can take twice the current (30-40amps).

If you have an old Q100, you could purchase a bare Q100H motor and just swap out the core into your old wheel. This will reportedly give you more torque

I don't feel much torque difference between a 201 and a 328rpm motor. Maybe 10% difference? The biggest difference is the 328 has a (theoretically) higher top speed, and the 201 can go slower without generating too much heat (i.e. full throttle hill climbing).

People tend to run into problems at 20amps, 17 amps is safe (and that is a bit of a jump over the 14amp standard controllers). MotoMech turned me on to a nice 36v17a controller from elifebikes, although it is a bit too big for my taste: 36V/48V 350W 9Mosfets Brushless Hub Motor Controller -

The people who had problems at 20amps or more tended to run at 48v as I recall, giving almost 1000 watts. That is a bit much. You could probably do 20 amps at 36v, keeping it to a more reasonable 750 watts. That is about twice the nominally rated power. A judicious usage of 750 watts is about the upper limit for a Q100.

to adjust the amps you can:
- purchase a controller with higher rated amps
- solder the shunt of a 15 amp controller to give more current
- purchase a programmable Infineon Controller: 6 fet IRFB3077 Infineon Controller (Motor With Hall Sensors)
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Old 08-30-16, 02:01 PM   #9
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Thanks C58. looking to experiment with a small diameter geared front hub motor possibly mounted within the frame triangle driving the crank with throttle only for simple climbing assist. I started a separate thread HERE trying to identify any small diameter front hub motors that might work that have the wiring coming out of the right side of the hub itself and a disc brake mount on the left. Need the narrow width of front hubs at 100mm and perfer black.
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