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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephenDedalus View Post
    In 2008 I was t-boned while riding my bike. The recovery was long and I put on over 130 lbs. I had previously had a lot of success losing weight cycling. I went from around 400lbs. to 230lbs. in the early 2000s and got my life back by commuting by bike. Back then I did 35+ miles a day round trip. After my accident getting started again was really hard. Low back pain, shoulder pain, you name it. I bought an e-bike to try and get my life back and so far it's worked. I now bike between 15 - 25 miles a day and I'm losing weight again. We'll see where this takes me, but my hope is that it's not too late to live a healthy, long life. For my family and for myself. The e-bike has become, as someone said earlier, my crutch to make sure I can "just keep riding" and stay moving.

    Oh, and for the OP. You mentioned that the same thing could be gained by pedaling the bike yourself. I would actually agree that bikes with throttles aren't as enjoyable. That's my personal preference. The bikes I've preferred and the bike I bought are pedal-assist bikes. Meaning I have to pedal. The bike is simply going to make life easier. It isn't going to get me where I'm going for free. And that's how I want it. I want to feel the wind on my face and all that good stuff, but I still want to ride a bike.
    You stated "the bikes you bought & ride are pedal assist meaning one has to pedal"
    Thats all of us either pedal assist or thumb throttle. E-Biking is sort of a cooperative relationship between human energy { pedaling ** & an electric motor. I have a Pedelec model with a thumb throttle mode but use the thumb throttle exclusively but I pedal I would say 60 % sometimes more. I like using my Raliegh Grand Prix road bike as well from time to time still but the fun gets cut short when the wind kicks up to 15 knots & your 8 miles from home thats when the fun just begins on an E-Bike

  2. #27
    Transportation Cyclist turbo1889's Avatar
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    Absolutely !!!

    ~ There are e-bikes and motorized-bicycles on both of which the pedals are a primary power source. They are hybrid powered bikes with a symbiotic relationship between the human power plant and the additional power of an electric (e-bike) motor or internal combustion (motorized-bicycle) engine.

    ~ And then there are Scooters, Mo-Peds, and Motor-Bikes either electric or internal combustion powered where the human power is an afterthought at best and if pedals are provided they aren't worth a ^#%^@%^^$*$ and are only there to meet legal requirements.

    They are two entirely different classes of vehicles and should be treated and regarded as such. The first is a type of efficient and effective hybrid vehicle. The second is just a two wheeled motor-vehicle often low powered trying to sneak in under the radar so to speak.

  3. #28
    Senior Member CigTech's Avatar
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    Because you don't and somebody has too.
    May your feet keep move'n with the wind to your back.

    CigTech

  4. #29
    Senior Member chas58's Avatar
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    Turbo - the big question is how do you separate the two of them?
    Power (watts)? Top speed? what?

    Personally I think ebikes should be limited to 15amps because anything much stronger than that is just going to overwhelm your legs, which by definition pretty much takes it into the moped category.

    I can ride a road bike 20, 25, sometimes 30, and top out at 40mph on a flat road. Limiting the e-bike speed to 20mph would make an ebike slower than my road bike. (In some people's mind, that might be a good thing).

  5. #30
    Senior Member chas58's Avatar
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    To the OP:

    Just building my bikes, but the goal is to add 5mph to the top speed of both. This means that the mountain bike can cruise at 20mph (which is the cruising speed of my road bike), and the road bike should be able to do 25mph. Also, I have a choice of how much to sweat: Can go easy and fast in the morning and arrive without too much sweat, then sweat and ride faster on the way home. Plus, it is just fun! ;-)


    Quote Originally Posted by shepherdsflock View Post
    I mainly follow the Commuting forum, but I see this forum and it got me wondering, why do people ride E-bikes? From my perspective, I think if I wanted something that was self-propelled I would buy a scooter or motorcycle. Not to offend anyone, that's just my train of thought. So, I'm curious, what do you find attractive about an E-bike versus a fully human powered bicycle?

  6. #31
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    the question is : why do you ride an e-bike ?

    because I want to commute all days. On my journey, there are many slopes !!! With this bike, I'm less tired than with a normal bike. Since I have this bike, I ride much more en bike than before.

    You understand my sentences ? ( see my signature)

    My journey to work : about 18 miles for round trip
    Last edited by Axelle; 04-30-13 at 09:36 AM.
    I begin to learn English...sorry for my many mistakes and my incomprehensions !! pouwęt-pouwęt, what else !

  7. #32
    Transportation Cyclist turbo1889's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chas58 View Post
    Turbo - the big question is how do you separate the two of them?
    Power (watts)? Top speed? what?

    Personally I think ebikes should be limited to 15amps because anything much stronger than that is just going to overwhelm your legs, which by definition pretty much takes it into the moped category.

    I can ride a road bike 20, 25, sometimes 30, and top out at 40mph on a flat road. Limiting the e-bike speed to 20mph would make an ebike slower than my road bike. (In some people's mind, that might be a good thing).

    In answer to "The Big Question" my personal answer would be ~ Fully functional pedal drive that BOTH allows the operator to ride the bike with relative ease on pedal power alone AND provide meaningful input by continuing to pedal that directly and noticably results in improvement of the performance of the bike along the entire speed range from initial acceleration from a dead stop to the top speed when under motor power and is built with the full intentions of the rider pedaling most if not all of the time. A Mo-Ped/Scooter does not meet that most important criteria in my mind and the pedals are just mainly for show. An e-bike or motorized-bicycle most certainly does. The power asisted bike I ride most often and that I commute on multiple times every week on a 10+ mile one way commute will go just under 20-mph under motor power alone on the flat, by continuing to peddle I can push my cruising speed on the flat up to slightly over 25-mph which is noticeably faster, I climb hills noticeably faster if I continue to pedal, and I can accelerate from a dead stop nearly twice as fast by pedaling hard as well as engaging the motor. In every way unless I'm beat tired there is more then enough encouragement built into the system to keep me pedaling strong while the motor is engaged.

    If you can't make a noticeable difference by continuing to pedal that is a strong enough incentive to keep you pedaling then you are beyond the "bicycle" status and have just built yourself another Mo-Ped. That is where the line lies in my mind. It is the emphasis on preserving the human power output as a strong part of the equation that makes the difference. Both a Mo-Ped/Scooter and an e-bike/motorized-bicycle can and should be able to keep up with 25-mph in town traffic in my mind and fully mix with traffic at that speed but shouldn't be able to go much faster then that without a big down-hill section and/or a strong tail wind (you can also build yourself a lower powered e-bike if you want as well but unless your handicapped I don't see the point and would just use a pedal only bike for lower speeds in my mind and for short distances I can go that fast on a light weight pedal bike just can't maintain for distance).

    Anyway, that's where I draw the line as far as speed, but speed isn't the big question to me, and the total power however it is measured is even further down on the list. THE BIG QUESTION to me is whether the human power output is fully taken advantage of and is considered a primary output in the hybrid drive system. Are the pedals there for real and set-up to be used most of the time, or are they just there for show to meet legal requirements and they are hardly usable and just used as a place to rest your feet while the motor pulls your fat @$$ around ?????????? That is THE BIG QUESTION to me.


    *Added Note: The speeds I list are for a "commuterized" mountain bike type set-up either pedal only power or hybrid human/motor power. A road bike is not rugged enough for a reliable daily commuter on the roads I ride on up here. Medium Weight Sturdy Mountain Bike Frame + Tough, Minimum-36spoke (48 is better), Double Wall Mountain Wheels + Puncture Resistant, Armored, 1.9"-2.25" Wide, Tough, Street Tread Tires + Fenders + Decent Rear OverWheel Cargo Rack + Good Lights Front & Rear is the kind of set-up you need for the roads up here for a reliable daily commuter whether you have a motor on it or not. "Running Light" (no cargo) I can push that kind of a set-up to 25-mph on the flat for a short sprint distance under pedal only power, maintainable distance speed on the flat under pedal power only is about 15-mph for that kind of a set-up. Running a motor and pedaling together lets me push up to 25-mph for distance without having to resort to a stripped down road bike that I can't depend on to go the distance with the conditions up here in the wilds of MT.
    Last edited by turbo1889; 04-30-13 at 06:56 PM.

  8. #33
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    I ride an ebike for health improvement and exercise. I'm 70 years old and just retired. I lost 30 lbs riding and am now down to about 250. I put a BionX system on a Trek Verve 4 and love it. I can't stay off the damn thing! There is no way I could do 30+ miles a day on any bike that didn't have electric assist. I know because I've tried it. Turning into the wind on the back half of a 30 mile ride without assist is not fun at my age.

    From a health standpoint, my doctor was surprised to discover (as was I) that my atrial fibrillation has gone away as a result of the bike riding I've been doing. This has been a fantastic benefit. Interestingly, I was off the bike for over a month due to a hip injury (not bike related) and the afib came back. Once I got back on the bike for a month, it disappeared again. The doctor said to keep doing what I'm doing. You can be sure I will!

  9. #34
    Senior Member chas58's Avatar
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    What kind of setup are you using where you can ride between 15-25mph (morot, controller, battery)?

    Quote Originally Posted by turbo1889 View Post
    *Added Note: The speeds I list are for a "commuterized" mountain bike type set-up either pedal only power or hybrid human/motor power. A road bike is not rugged enough for a reliable daily commuter on the roads I ride on up here. Medium Weight Sturdy Mountain Bike Frame + Tough, Minimum-36spoke (48 is better), Double Wall Mountain Wheels + Puncture Resistant, Armored, 1.9"-2.25" Wide, Tough, Street Tread Tires + Fenders + Decent Rear OverWheel Cargo Rack + Good Lights Front & Rear is the kind of set-up you need for the roads up here for a reliable daily commuter whether you have a motor on it or not. "Running Light" (no cargo) I can push that kind of a set-up to 25-mph on the flat for a short sprint distance under pedal only power, maintainable distance speed on the flat under pedal power only is about 15-mph for that kind of a set-up. Running a motor and pedaling together lets me push up to 25-mph for distance without having to resort to a stripped down road bike that I can't depend on to go the distance with the conditions up here in the wilds of MT.

  10. #35
    Transportation Cyclist turbo1889's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chas58 View Post
    What kind of setup are you using where you can ride between 15-25mph (morot, controller, battery)?
    Sorry, forgot about getting back to you on this. I've got two main motor assisted bikes that I use for commuting almost all the time out of my fleet that are right in that speed range notch and are "commuterized" MTB set-ups as I explained. On is a gas motor assisted bike and one is electric.

    For the gas this is what I'm using with a 60t-11t gearing (consistently gets about 150 miles per gallon): http://www.staton-inc.com/store/prod...it-389-14.html

    The electric is a little more complicated and I didn't just use a kit as is. I did pick up the "guts" of a GNG brushless mid-drive. The one they are selling as a 450watt model but controller and motor is actually rated for 20A at 48V. Bought it off of a guy who didn't like it because it kept chewing up belts all the time and he broke the wimpy freewheeling crank set that comes with that kit. We haggled over price and he sent me what was left of the kit for $150 shipped including the broken crank parts but with no battery and a chewed up belt (kit is $400 new plus shipping). I then used a dremel on the motor side belt pulley and smoothed the sharp edges which are part of what makes them eat belts and put on a new belt and then ran it off of a 36V 15A old Crystallite hub motor controller I had laying around. This puts a lot less stress on the belt and also reduces the motor speed by about 25% so that it more closely matches pedal speed on the crank and it isn't trying to spin the crank so fast that you can't pedal fast enough to keep up and help out with your human power input. All these modifications based on the experience of others posted on the endless-sphere forum about this kit. I am powering it off of twelve LFP-G20 cells in series (LiFePO4 Screw Top Terminal Prismatic Cells, 3.2V, 20Ah, 10C, 1.65lbs) separated into three sets of four cells to allow 12V parallel charging and 36V series output. I then used freewheeling crank components purchased from both Sick Bike Parts (.com) and Staton-Inc (.com) to build a much better stronger freewheeling crank using their heavy duty parts and mounting double big chain-rings on it. Outboard chain-ring runs forward with a short chain to the mid-drive motor kit mounted just forward of the bottom bracket on the down-tube and the inboard chain-ring runs back to an 8-speed free-hub cluster with a 12t,13t,14t,15t,16t,20t,26t,34t set of sprockets in the rear (custom layout pieced together). I usually pull away from a dead stop in second gear (save first gear as a granny gear only for BIG hills when loaded down with cargo) and only have to shift twice to be in my high range for travel speed on the flat and all the gears after that are single tooth difference to trim my gearing for conditions usually cruising in seventh or eighth gear on the flat pedaling at about 90-RPM pedal cadence with the motor and my pedaling running smoothly together.

    I've got other electric and gas set-ups that run a little faster or slower but in every case I've got them set-up so that my pedaling and the motor work together. Most are mid-drives that run the power of the motor through the gears of the bike but I do have one hub-motor bike (my fastest bike that will do 28mph under motor power alone and go over 30mph with pedaling but short range and heavy with its 1.4Kw "Brute" rear hub motor) and I've got a total of two of the Staton-Inc axle mount kits which are single gear ratio for the motor. There is also my bike with just the hill helper motor which is a cheap junk 200-250 watt hub-motor outside of a wheel that drives the rear wheel through a 2.125 gearing reduction so it is only good for help to climb hills and on the flat you can go faster then the motor can spin just by pedaling. All the rest of my motor assisted bikes both electric and gas (and one that is both) put the motors power through the bikes gears for multiple drive ratios matching the motors RPM to the pedal RPM so they work together in unison. Wheel RPM has a much wider "sweet spot" range then pedal RPM so if you match the motor up to the pedals instead of the wheel and take advantage of the bikes gears it makes for a much better build in my opinion. But then it is all about what your looking for to begin with.
    Last edited by turbo1889; 05-12-13 at 02:12 AM.

  11. #36
    Kamek ralph12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axelle View Post
    the question is : why do you ride an e-bike ?

    because I want to commute all days. On my journey, there are many slopes !!! With this bike, I'm less tired than with a normal bike. Since I have this bike, I ride much more en bike than before.

    You understand my sentences ? ( see my signature)

    My journey to work : about 18 miles for round trip
    I understand it, at least. Congratulations on your progress in English.

    I'm sure that you'll achieve fluency soon enough. English and most of the Latin/Romance languages (like French) have a lot of vocabulary in common.

  12. #37
    Doug CaliforniaEbike's Avatar
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    I take your question as an honest question. Indeed, for those who are fit, pain free and living in areas where you can navigate the hills by all means, a standard bike is probably for you. However, many people want to get good exercise and enjoy the fresh air of the out of doors but can no longer ride without assistance. Ebikes are not intended for lazy people they are intended to assist those who need assistance to the level that they need it. Whether it be a baby boomer with arthritis, the person who wants to arrive at work not drenched in sweat or those of us who want to leave from home and return home and have the ability to climb a 17% grade without a heart attack.

    Another reason that is finally getting some traction because of the cost of gas nowadays is, why take your car to Starbucks to have a latte with your friends that will cost you $5 when riding a bike or ebike will cost you practically zip?
    califronia-ebike.com

  13. #38
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    I just got my first e-bike (pedal assist) 3 days ago mainly to commute 25 miles round trip at night. Being self employed I can be working/commuting/ any time/several times during a 24 hour period 7 days a week. I have been riding non powered bikes for day time duties for the last 1+ years as I was tired of paying high prices to the oil barrons for fuel and finaly said enough is enough.

    Commuting just during the day proved how much money I save in fuel and now commuting day and night by bike is even a better savings! Traveling home at 3:00 am after 6-8 hours of work I thought the help of a pedal assist bike would be helpful and I hope to put the money saved in fuel away for retirement.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBikeFL View Post
    +1

    Also, the cost of owning a car keeps going up: Cost of Owning and Operating Vehicle in U.S. Increased 1.9 Percent According to AAA?s 2012 ?Your Driving Costs? Study | AAA NewsRoom

    It's cheaper to ride an e-bike. If you use a scooter or motorcycle you'll still visit a gas station. The last time I visited a gas station for fuel was last year.

    My friends all own bicycles but they drive more than they bike. Since I finished building my e-bike I ride more than I use my car. How many U.S. Presidents have said we need to break our addiction to oil? Well there you go...I just did.
    You're on the money for not having to pay for fuel to go forward, but I can reach 35 kph on a non-assist bike, so really what's the use of burning money on an e-bike? For the price of a Bionx kit you can get a very neat bike...

    And a good 2-stroke Euro scooter can climb at 80 kph easily (a whopping 100-105 kph if you mod the piston to 70cc). Given those awful speed limits enforced by e-bike companies, that's more than twice the speed. They'd better find a way to protest these stupid laws if they wanna keep selling stuff.

    If you got about 2000$ to spend on a fast transport option, either get one of these scooters or a used car... Legal e-bikes are just useful for lazy people or senior citizens.

  15. #40
    Senior Member profstack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boobsports View Post
    ... Legal e-bikes are just useful for lazy people or senior citizens.
    If you have ridden an e-bike for more than a few miles, then I'll forgive you your "lazy people" comment. If you are over 50 and riding hills, great job!

    I'm approaching "senior citizen" status and live in very hilly Seattle. Trust me, I get a workout riding here. But the big thing is that I am riding more than I would my regular bicycle.
    Give your best every day. Each morning brings new opportunities.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by boobsports View Post
    You're on the money for not having to pay for fuel to go forward, but I can reach 35 kph on a non-assist bike, so really what's the use of burning money on an e-bike? For the price of a Bionx kit you can get a very neat bike...

    And a good 2-stroke Euro scooter can climb at 80 kph easily (a whopping 100-105 kph if you mod the piston to 70cc). Given those awful speed limits enforced by e-bike companies, that's more than twice the speed. They'd better find a way to protest these stupid laws if they wanna keep selling stuff.

    If you got about 2000$ to spend on a fast transport option, either get one of these scooters or a used car... Legal e-bikes are just useful for lazy people or senior citizens.
    Really? I think you are confusing E-Bikes with EA-Bikes...
    He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts...for support rather than illumination. I do like my beer, so sometimes I do end up leaning on the lamp-post...

  17. #42
    Senior Member heywood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boobsports View Post
    Legal e-bikes are just useful for lazy people or senior citizens.
    ehh..do you not see this as insulting?? why would you do that?

  18. #43
    Senior Member Ridefreemc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    ehh..do you not see this as insulting?? why would you do that?
    +1

    - and great first few posts boob (not).

    To answer the OPs question, I got it because it is so cool! Literally and figuratively. I use the throttle to get to work in the morning without sweating. It's often 86 or 87 degrees with 100% humidity when I go to work at 6 AM. Coming home I peddle and use assist. Other times I just enjoy doubling my miles with the same effort as half the miles on my non-electric. The kids use it too and even pick up their friends on it (it is an Xtracycle with Bionx kit).

    I haul stuff with it without effort. I use about $5 per work day, or $25/week driving and get zero exercise. The e-bike uses maybe $0.05?? $0.10 at worst.
    On the move!
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