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  1. #1
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    NYS made electric bikes illegal?

    Reading the paper yesterday, an article stated NYS has deemed it illegal to operate ANY electrical bicycle, anywhere in the state, NYC is cracking down, the complaint is: the electric bikes are going 30mph and bombarding people and especially (sic) taxis, I'm hoping this is false.

    Talk about two steps backwards...

  2. #2
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    Here's an article on it: http://www.electricbike.com/ebike-illegal/

    I suspect this view will grow in other cities as fuel prices rise and more people start using e-bikes. The streets of NYC are the epitome of congestion and everyone in a vehicle is fighting for their piece of asphalt.


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    Quote Originally Posted by EBikeFL View Post
    Here's an article on it: http://www.electricbike.com/ebike-illegal/

    I suspect this view will grow in other cities as fuel prices rise and more people start using e-bikes. The streets of NYC are the epitome of congestion and everyone in a vehicle is fighting for their piece of asphalt.
    My 89 year old parents have 2 condo's in Florida & looks like it's time for me to move south allthough i'm 20 miles east of NYC on Long Island & have passed a bunch of cops recently , maybe it's more of a NYC thing, got a pit in my stomach after reading this though..

  4. #4
    Senior Member chas58's Avatar
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    The grace period we all have had is coming to an end. You know it is not going to last forever. Enjoy it while you can.

    There is no infrastructure in this country for something that goes 20mph or 30mph. You are either walking or preferably driving.

  5. #5
    Senior Member bikemig's Avatar
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    I like it. Here is a product that does a good job of getting people from point a to point b and does so with a much lower impact on the environment than many of the alternatives and the city decides to make it illegal. There were plenty of ways of dealing with the problem short of an outright prohibition but apparently car pollution is preferable to e bikes . . .

  6. #6
    Senior Member DrkAngel's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    A Bill to legalize eBikes is presently before the NYS Assembly and Senate.

    It passed the Transportation committee unanimously!

    http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/bill/A1618A-2013

    http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/bill/S390-2013
    Interesting to note is -

    "BILL NUMBER:S390

    TITLE OF BILL:
    An act
    to amend the vehicle and traffic law, in relation to the definition of
    electric assisted bicycle

    PURPOSE:
    This bill clarifies the vehicle and traffic law to define electric
    assisted bicycles; establishes that electric assisted bicycles, as
    defined, are bicycles
    ; and establishes safety and operational
    criteria for their use."

    It sounds like the Bill is for the purpose for to "clarify" that electric assisted bicycles are bicycles ... already?
    Last edited by DrkAngel; 05-04-13 at 12:07 AM.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrkAngel View Post
    A Bill to legalize eBikes is presently before the NYS Assembly and Senate.

    It passed the Transportation committee unanimously!

    http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/bill/A1618A-2013

    http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/bill/S390-2013
    Interesting to note is -

    "BILL NUMBER:S390

    TITLE OF BILL:
    An act
    to amend the vehicle and traffic law, in relation to the definition of
    electric assisted bicycle

    PURPOSE:
    This bill clarifies the vehicle and traffic law to define electric
    assisted bicycles; establishes that electric assisted bicycles, as
    defined, are bicycles
    ; and establishes safety and operational
    criteria for their use."

    It sounds like the Bill is for the purpose for to "clarify" that electric assisted bicycles are bicycles ... already?
    Yeah !, yesterday every time I made a turn I was riding next to or towards a Cop for some reason, it was weird they were fine with my E-Bike I waved, smiled did the eye contact thing..Hopefully all is working out for us NYers. They just have to enforce the 20 MPH thing so people dont get mowed down by hopped up 30 MPH E-Bike riding Chinese delivery guys in manhatten

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    The delivery riders are ruining it for everyone. They are the biggest users of electric bikes and are often the worse riders. Heck, I see them going just as fast as motorcycles and they ride like bike messengers blowing red lights. It was only a matter of time before this happened. I suggest they change the ruling and force all delivery men back on regular bicycles.

  9. #9
    Senior Member DrkAngel's Avatar
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    Well ...
    I played with a couple eBike ... modifications, that allowed 30ish mph.

    Recently I have tended towards more efficiency and torque, pushing as far as possible ... while still meeting "legal" specs.
    Latest mods involve lowering gear ratio and upping voltage, trying to maximize watt output while limiting top speed.
    I'm hooked on the eZip external gear reduction motors, simple to tweak gear ratios and voltages.

    Of course I intend on a road bike, trick will be to trim voltage and stretch the gearing for 20mph, motor alone, but with substantial motor support past 30mph.
    Last edited by DrkAngel; 05-05-13 at 05:43 AM.
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    what is the current status? I live in the boondocks and am planning to commute to work. it's only 8 miles and very low traffic but I will have to go through a small town. if I get fined I will be PI$$ED

  11. #11
    Senior Member CigTech's Avatar
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    This well never work. If the ebikers just fellow the road laws and stop being DICKS it would not be a problem. The few that are doing this needs to be fined and have there bike taken. But for a state way ban, I don't see that happing. Also most states have a 10mph sidewalk speed limit they need to inforce that as well.
    Last edited by CigTech; 05-05-13 at 04:21 AM.
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    NYC is VERY different than the rest f the state. The law should be different between the city and the state

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    Quote Originally Posted by CigTech View Post
    This well never work. If the ebikers just fellow the road laws and stop being DICKS it would not be a problem. The few that are doing this needs to be fined and have there bike taken. But for a state way ban, I don't see that happing. Also most states have a 10mph sidewalk speed limit they need to inforce that as well.
    It's not just a couple of guys that are the problem. I see delivery men every day on E-bikes and most don't make any attempt to pedal anymore. For all intents and purposes, they are riding scooters and should be treated as such with requirment for driver's license and insurance. I don't know if any have been killed but man they are going too fast for their own good.

  14. #14
    2 Fat 2 Furious contango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve View Post
    It's not just a couple of guys that are the problem. I see delivery men every day on E-bikes and most don't make any attempt to pedal anymore. For all intents and purposes, they are riding scooters and should be treated as such with requirment for driver's license and insurance. I don't know if any have been killed but man they are going too fast for their own good.
    It seems to make more sense to put restrictions on just what is allowed to be treated as a pedal cycle and what is treated as a scooter/motorbike than to seek an outright ban.

    As I understand it in the UK an electric bicycle is legally classed as a bicycle (i.e. no tax or insurance required, allowed to use cycle lanes, no identifying plates required etc) as long as it isn't capable of more than 15mph under electric power, has a power output under a certain level, and requires the operator to at least make a token effort to turn the pedals. If you want to pedal fast you get to go as fast as you can pedal, just like any other bicycle.

    It seems like a reasonably happy medium, enforcement aside. If you had an e-bike that could do 25mph unaided and used it illegally the chances are you'd go a long time before getting caught. Even if you've got issues with lots of people using a particular type of vehicle in a way that's antisocial or dangerous it seems to make more sense to deal with the individuals rather than the tool of choice.
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    I ride an ebike in NYC, pretty stealthy although the hub motor is there if anyone looks. Still, I suspect that if I continue to ride reasonably then I won't have any problem. The model law on which the Senate bill is based says that a bike with a motor that can't go faster than 20 mph (powered) is a bike. Plain and simple. People on racing bikes blow past me all the time so it's just a matter of common sense.

  16. #16
    Senior Member chas58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CigTech View Post
    This well never work. If the ebikers just fellow the road laws and stop being DICKS it would not be a problem. The few that are doing this needs to be fined and have there bike taken. But for a state way ban, I don't see that happing. Also most states have a 10mph sidewalk speed limit they need to inforce that as well.
    Interesting. I didn't know about the 10mph ban, but it makes sense. On pedal bike I travel at 20mph, and get told all the time to ride on the sidewalk (pickup trucks here really do not like to share the road).

    A 20mph limit on e-bikes is the generic US law (may be superceded by local laws), and it makes sense to me. Beyond that you are on a moped. That limit is unassisted on flat ground. As specialized has shown, you can sell a bike that can do 20mph unassisted or 27mph assisted and still meet the spirit of the law.

    Seriously, no one rides a pedal bike solo much above 20 mph sustained. I race and train with the fastest bikers in the state, and I have to be in a real hurry to sustain speeds over 20 mph. Yeah, racers can sprint at 40mph (for about 100 meters), and go faster in a pace line, drafting, down hill or down wind. but even a strong rider isn't going to sustain over 20 mph in non race conditions.

  17. #17
    2 Fat 2 Furious contango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chas58 View Post
    Interesting. I didn't know about the 10mph ban, but it makes sense. On pedal bike I travel at 20mph, and get told all the time to ride on the sidewalk (pickup trucks here really do not like to share the road).

    A 20mph limit on e-bikes is the generic US law (may be superceded by local laws), and it makes sense to me. Beyond that you are on a moped. That limit is unassisted on flat ground. As specialized has shown, you can sell a bike that can do 20mph unassisted or 27mph assisted and still meet the spirit of the law.

    Seriously, no one rides a pedal bike solo much above 20 mph sustained. I race and train with the fastest bikers in the state, and I have to be in a real hurry to sustain speeds over 20 mph. Yeah, racers can sprint at 40mph (for about 100 meters), and go faster in a pace line, drafting, down hill or down wind. but even a strong rider isn't going to sustain over 20 mph in non race conditions.
    I suppose it depends what you mean by "sustained". I've maintained 20mph for 2-3 miles riding solo a few times and I'm far from being a racer - I'm a Clyde on a cross bike with a pannier rack on it. You don't need much of a tailwind or much of a decline for 20mph to really not take a whole lot of effort.
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  18. #18
    Senior Member DrkAngel's Avatar
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    The Electric Bicycle Bill has been sitting before the New York State lawmakers since the beginning of the Century.
    But never passed!
    Do not blame the Assembly!!!
    The Bill passes the Assembly ... unanimously! ... almost every year.


    2001-2002
    A00091 Summary:
    BILL:A00091DDATE:05/30/2002MOTION: YEA/NAY:138/0

    2003-2004
    A00588 Votes:

    BILL:A00588 DATE:03/31/2003MOTION: YEA/NAY:147/0
    BILL:A00588 DATE:03/08/2004MOTION: YEA/NAY:144/0

    2005-2006
    A00071 Votes:

    BILL:A00071 DATE:05/02/2005MOTION: YEA/NAY:138/0
    BILL:A00071 DATE:01/17/2006MOTION: YEA/NAY:135/0

    2007-2008
    A00189 Votes:

    BILL:A00189 DATE:02/26/2007MOTION: YEA/NAY:136/0
    BILL:A00189 DATE:01/23/2008MOTION: YEA/NAY:140/1

    2009-2010
    A02393 Votes:
    BILL:A02393 DATE:03/02/2009MOTION: YEA/NAY:127/1
    BILL:A02393 DATE:02/22/2010MOTION: YEA/NAY:145/0

    2011-2012
    BILL:A01350 DATE:03/07/2011MOTION: YEA/NAY:129/5
    BILL:A01350 DATE:01/23/2012MOTION: YEA/NAY:136/4

    Every single year ... the State Senate kills, or allows the bill to die!

    Why?
    Such a disparity of unanimous support, from the Assembly vs continued Senate rejection is confusing ... to say the least ...
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  19. #19
    Senior Member DrkAngel's Avatar
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    Lightbulb NewYork State Senate! ... Anti-eBike?

    Interesting development!
    2013 -
    BILL A1618A eBike Assembly Bill
    BILL A5058 Duplicate? eBike Assembly Bill
    Bill S390 Senate eBike BILL

    Strange is the duplicate Assembly Bill of nearly identical structure!
    Sad ... is that each Bill has a single, lonely sponsor!

    Wait! ... miracle of miracles!
    There is yet another eBike Bill ... effectively.
    BILL A6659: Defines the term power-assisted bicycle
    Same as the other eBike BILLS except ... it also allows gas motors (up to 48cc).

    Someone is making a concession to the oil industry?
    Who is the lacky sucking at the teat of the oil industry ... lets look!

    OMG! While any other eBike Bill has 1 lonely sponsor, the gas bike (Smog Hog) Bill has sponsors falling all over each other, trying to claim credit (garner oil donations?).
    "A6659-2013: Sponsor: Oaks / Multi-sponsor(s): Ceretto, Corwin, Crouch, McLaughlin, Montesano / Co-sponsor(s): Barclay, Walter "

    Definition of Power-assisted bicycle -
    "S 102-C. POWER-ASSISTED BICYCLE. A BICYCLE WITH TWO OR THREE WHEELS
    WHICH HAS A SADDLE AND FULLY OPERATIVE PEDALS FOR HUMAN PROPULSION AND
    ALSO HAS AN ELECTRIC OR INTERNAL COMBUSTION MOTOR. THE POWER-ASSISTED
    BICYCLE'S MOTOR SHALL: HAVE A POWER OUTPUT OF NOT MORE THAN ONE THOUSAND
    WATTS OR HAVE A PISTON DISPLACEMENT OF NOT MORE THAN FORTY-EIGHT CUBIC
    CENTIMETERS
    ; BE INCAPABLE OF PROPELLING THE DEVICE AT A SPEED OF MORE
    THAN TWENTY MILES PER HOUR ON LEVEL GROUND; AND BE INCAPABLE OF FURTHER
    INCREASING THE SPEED OF THE DEVICE WHEN HUMAN POWER IS USED TO PROPEL
    THE DEVICE AT OR MORE THAN TWENTY MILES PER HOUR.
    "

    Please notice this limits motor engine size to 48cc, fairly common for 2 stroke engines.
    However, this excludes the more efficient, less polluting, better fuel economy, 49cc 4 stroke engines!

    On purpose?
    Some "conspiracy" to limit fuel economy?
    Trying to make sure oil consumption isn't reduced too much???
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  20. #20
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    Actually the popular china girl engines are 49cc as well. There are 35cc 4 stroke engines by Honda and Robin/Subaru that if set up properly will do as well as a 49cc 4 stroke. At least they have e bikes written in there so that is a good thing. But there is no getting over the 20 mph limit it seems due mainly to the federal regs, although some states do have higher limits.

  21. #21
    Transportation Cyclist turbo1889's Avatar
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    I object to the vicious attacks against gasoline motor assisted bikes with similar performance and functionality to e-bikes.

    I will put the exact same question to you that I put to another #$^%R^#% piece of @#!#%&(*^&^% worthless @%^$&^)*&^ I caught in the act of slashing the tires of my motor assisted bike that uses a 25cc Subaru Robin motor that exceeds CA emission standards (strictest in the U.S.) and will meet the even more stringent Euro and Japanese standards:

    "Would you prefer I drive my truck instead and burn 15 times more gas and produce over 15 times more emissions instead? If you are slashing the tires on my motor assisted bike I sure hope you slashed the tires on every car and truck in this parking lot before you messed with my bike !!!!!"

    The individual in question was arrested and was taken away in handcuffs by the cops and I did press charges against him and I did go after him in small claims court in addition to the criminal charges.

    Done correctly using an efficient and clean burning modern four cycle motor a gas motor assisted bike produces LESS emissions than an electric car if the electric car is charged using a standard mix of US grid power.

    Dude - get a clue, one would think you would be tickled pink that someone is reducing their gas usage and emissions footprint by several orders of magnitude and you don't need to get your panties in a twist because they didn't reduce them as much as you did with your e-bike and be happy that it is one more car off the road.

    I will also ask - please enlighten us as to what you use to charge your batteries and what the footprint that generates is.

    I have pedal only bikes (plural) that I use as transportation proper, I have e-bikes (plural) that I use as transportation proper, and I have gas motor assisted bikes (plural) that I use as transportation proper . . . and yes I do also have a truck and a car. I use what is appropriate to cover my needs for a particular trip for a particular purpose. As of yet I have not yet figured out how to bring home 3-tons of feed on a bike in a single trip. I have also yet to figure out how to make an e-bike travel 100-miles non-stop through the teeth of a blizzard in sub-zero temperatures - I know for a fact that my bikes equipped with small efficient clean burning gas motors that burn many times less gas and produce many times less emissions then a full size vehicle will do that when asked to do so because I have done it and I don't get fat and lazy either.



    I'm sick of you scum and your vicious vandalizing ways - I ought to kick your teeth in, I nearly did to one of your kind already and I would have if sounder judgment hadn't prevailed and the scum was led away in handcuffs instead.

    Oh - yah - I've also had pedal only bicyclists vandalize and sabotage me e-bikes as well. I hate scum like your kind, you won't let a guy try to do the right thing with free will freedom to do it the way of his choosing - you know it all, your way is the only way that is right anything else and you just have to stop him (or her) by hook or by crook.

    Don't you understand - your slimy vile attitude against gas motor assisted bikes that use far less gas and produce far less emissions then cars is no different then the attitude of those that made e-bikes not street legal in NY. You're complaining about someone kicking you because your different while at the very same moment doing the exact same thing and kicking someone else because they are different. What utter despicable tools you are.
    Last edited by turbo1889; 06-09-13 at 12:34 AM.

  22. #22
    Senior Member DrkAngel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbo1889 View Post
    Don't you understand - your slimy vile attitude against gas motor assisted bikes that use far less gas and produce far less emissions then cars ...
    "'MythBusters' asks: Are motorcycles greener than cars?

    ... Selecting three motorcycles and three cars that represented popular models from the '80s, '90s and '00s, they put the six vehicles through a 30-minute, 20-mile course. Seventy-five percent was freeway driving; the other 25 percent was in the city. Savage drove the three cars. Hyneman trailed him at speed on each of the three bikes. None of the vehicles' makes and models were disclosed.

    All of the vehicles were equipped with portable emissions-measuring systems that took exhaust gases from a probe in the tailpipe and engine information from the engine control unit. The devices determined the vehicles' fuel economy and emissions profiles while the vehicles were running on the real-world course in California's Alameda County earlier this year.
    The upshot? Motorcycles were indeed more fuel-efficient than cars and emitted less of the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide, but they emitted far more smog-forming hydrocarbons and oxides of nitrogen, as well as the toxic air pollutant carbon monoxide. For the most recent model year vehicles tested -- from the '00s -- the motorcycle used 28% less fuel than the comparable decade car and emitted 30% fewer carbon dioxide emissions, but it emitted 416% more hydrocarbons, 3,220% more oxides of nitrogen and 8,065% more carbon monoxide.


    The MythBusters' conclusion: "At best, it's a wash. Motorcycles are just as bad for the environment as cars," Savage said on the show. "At worst, they're far worse." ... "
    Logically ... gas powered bikes, without any degree of emission controls, are libel to be even worse! (percentage wise)?
    2 cycle being much worse than 4 cycle!
    Last edited by DrkAngel; 06-09-13 at 01:49 AM.
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  23. #23
    Transportation Cyclist turbo1889's Avatar
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    Okay, very simple 101 level college physics dictate that how much carbon is in the fuel is burned is directly relative to how much carbon based pollutants come out the tail-pipe. So if you burn 15 times more fuel of the exact same fuel with the exact same carbon content that means 15 time more carbon based emissions out the tail pipe. The only way matter can be destroyed or created or changed from one element to another is through a nuclear reaction so unless you have a nuclear reactor built into your internal combustion engine using 1/15th the amount of fuel (assuming same fuel) means 1/15th the carbon based emissions out the tail pipe.

    You are correct that those carbon emissions can come in different forms, carbon particulates (that black stuff that coats the inside of the tail pipe) or various carbon based gases of which of considerable importance is the ratio of CO^2 to CO. You are also correct that it is not a closed system and that nitrogen from the atmosphere also gets into the act combining with oxygen under high temperatures and producing various nitrogen oxides.

    You are correct that 2-cycle oil mix is not the same fuel content as straight gas and depending on the oil used in the mix usually (but not always) makes for a much dirtier fuel that starts out from the get go with a significantly higher potential pollutant content. Just like the old leaded gas contained lead that was sooner or later going to end up out the end of the tail-pipe that unleaded gas did not start out with. Same thing with different fuels from the start not making for an apples to apples comparison.

    Speaking of apples to apples comparison I was not talking about a big high speed (as in full road speed capable) motor cycle AND MORE IMPORTANTLY NEITHER IS THE LAW IN QUESTION AS CLEARLY EVIDENT IN YOUR OWN POST AND SINCE YOU POSTED IT YOU KNEW THAT !!!. Yet you still chose to refrence something that is talking about big powerful full size motorcycles. 48cc is a whole different world then 1400cc which is about the mid-point for high speed capable motorcycles (same definition as before see above) you usually need at the very, very least 250cc on a very light weight bike to get a full highway speed capabilities and many full speed capable motorcycles out there are running over 2000cc which is a bigger motor by displacement size then in many compact cars !!! Would it be any surprise if they produced just as much emissions while consuming only slightly less fuel (your 28% less fuel used tells me right away what kind of motor bikes the study you reference is talking about). You aren't even getting close to the same class as 48cc or less until you start talking about bikes that consume 100% to 1,900% less fuel then the full size car it is being compared too (that would be comparing a gas hog of a motorized bicycle that only gets 100-mpg to a very fuel efficient car that gets 50-mpg and a very efficient motorized bicycle that get 200-mpg to a gas hog muscle car that only gets 10-mpg respectively, as used "% less fuel" in this case can be more then 100% even though usually that is not the case with percentages).

    If your argument was based purely on carbon count and fuel used alone you wouldn't have a chance in ^#$%^#@$% of making a decent argument. BUT, that wasn't your entire argument. You do make valid points about 2-cycles starting with a (usually) dirtier fuel and all that junk has to come out the tail pipe sooner or later - very true and if you had made an argument for the law specifying that two strokes or any other engine requiring the use of an oil mixed fuel were not allowed I would mainly agree with you on that point but still pointing out that there are two stroke mixes that are possible that burn cleaner then gasoline alone does and almost all of them are alcohol based instead of petro based with exotic oils being used. So a clean 2-cycle is possible - just not very likely to be encountered in common use.

    So limiting further argument to purely 4-strokes, I would point out that not all four strokes are created equal most certainly and that the two major concerns from an emissions standpoint are "oxidization rate" and "combustion temperature". The oxidization rate of the combustion cycle (or cycles, plural, in the case of secondary burning such as in a catalytic converter) is what determines how much of the carbon consumed from the fuel exits the tail pipe as CO^2 and how much exits as CO and how much particulate carbons are produce. The combustion temperature is the main contributor to nitros oxides being produced. The higher the combustion temperatures the more easily nitrogen and oxygen combine to form nitros oxides.

    Although in many places in the US no standards exist for very small engines (such as used in motorized bicycles yes but far more commonly used in small power tools especially lawn care tools) and the emissions they create in CA they do exist as in other parts of the world to an even more stringent extent such parts of Europe and Japan. I will not argue that the standards are as strict as those for larger more complex engines but they are far stricter then the standards of only a couple decades ago for the US automobile industry and small engines built to meet those standards in order to be sold in those markets burn clean with a high oxidization rate and low running temperatures. Some of the better cleaner 4-cycle engines even go to the extent of having catalytic screens built into their muffler boxes something previously unheard of for that motor size especially in years past when they were all 2-strokes.

    Wake up to the advancements in modern technology and the new clean burning micro 4-cycle engines which you have a hard time detecting their emissions with a sniffer wand (YES - I've tried it). 48cc isn't a hurdle at all 25cc, 33cc, 35cc, 41cc models are available if your willing to look for them and know what your looking for, in fact it makes at least some sense to my mind since gasoline burning 4-strokes of the old technology that wasn't nearly as clean were rarely built that small so limiting to that small of a size (if we also limit it to 4-strokes) provides a relative standard where only the newest and cleanest technology is readily available in that size range.

    Even if you want to talk only about the "China Girl" 2-stroke smoggers (where your argument might find a leg to stand on) their relatively small size and much smaller fuel consumption and air cycling they produce far less emissions then an old 70's car or truck which is at the same level of technology even with the 2-stroke mix oil meaning the "China Girl" starts with a dirtier fuel with the oil mixed into it.

  24. #24
    Transportation Cyclist turbo1889's Avatar
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    One additional note, to my knowledge sniffers (at least the ones I have used) display results as PPM or "Parts Per Million" and if you are measuring exhaust gases this can result in some very incorrect conclusions if you don't take into consideration the volume produced per given amount of time. For example if you have a car that is pushing "A" cubic foot per minute of gases out its exhaust and you register "B" on your sniffer of PPM of a particular pollutant in the exhaust gas and you are comparing that to a bike that is pushing "X" cubic foot per minute of gases out of its exhaust and you register "Y" on your sniffer of PPM of a particular pollutant in the exhaust stream you can't just compare the two PPM numbers "B" and "Y" without taking into consideration the volume numbers of "A" and "X" as well. If the car engine is pushing 50 times the volume that must be taken into account and you can't say the bike produces more pollution just because it's PPM number is 10 times as high. In fact with that exact hypothetical ratio the car is producing five times the total quantity of that hypothetical pollutant.

  25. #25
    Senior Member DrkAngel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrkAngel View Post
    "'MythBusters' asks: Are motorcycles greener than cars?
    ...
    The upshot? Motorcycles were indeed more fuel-efficient than cars and emitted less of the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide, but they emitted far more smog-forming hydrocarbons and oxides of nitrogen, as well as the toxic air pollutant carbon monoxide. For the most recent model year vehicles tested -- from the '00s -- the motorcycle used 28% less fuel than the comparable decade car and emitted 30% fewer carbon dioxide emissions, but it emitted 416% more hydrocarbons, 3,220% more oxides of nitrogen and 8,065% more carbon monoxide.


    The MythBusters' conclusion: "At best, it's a wash. Motorcycles are just as bad for the environment as cars," Savage said on the show. "At worst, they're far worse." ... "
    Logically ... gas powered bikes, without any degree of emission controls, are libel to be even worse! (percentage wise)?
    2 cycle being much worse than 4 cycle!
    Well ...
    If we give the motorcycle a liberal 50mpg
    and compare it to a gas bike
    a 2 cycle at 100mpg produces
    more than 2x the hydrocarbons
    more than 15x the oxides of nitrogen and
    more than 40x the carbon monoxide
    of a car ...
    per mile!

    A 4 cycle at 150 mpg might do a bit better ...
    but still ...
    more than 1.33x the hydrocarbons
    more than 10x the oxides of nitrogen and
    more than 25x the carbon monoxide
    of a car ...
    per mile!
    "Best of all! ... I get to play. ... http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...&thumb=1&stc=1
    Sorry! ... I'm addicted to improving enhancing.
    With side orders of inspiring enlightening!"

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