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Old 05-17-13, 01:59 PM   #1
harrison67
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Breaking the law?

Who here rides an ebike that exceeds the federal mandate? I ride a 2000w thunderbolt conversion kit from HPC to work every day. It's top speed I've gotten it to is 41mph. Is anyone else out there doing the same?
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Old 05-17-13, 02:35 PM   #2
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I have managed 74.4 KMH/46.5 MPH pedaling like crazy going down a hill near where I live... Technically I think it's against the law since an E-assist bike can legally only go 32KMH/20MPH around here. My E-Assist cuts out at 32KMH/20MPH like it's supposed to tho, so anytime I go faster it's my pedaling that gets me there... So what's your range with so much power?
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Old 05-17-13, 03:34 PM   #3
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32 miles if I stay below 25mph. I have a 13ah lithium colbalt manganese battery with 60amp output at 52 volts.
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Old 05-17-13, 06:12 PM   #4
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If you are in a car and the speed limit is 55mph and you are going faster than that is that not breaking the law? If you use common sense and good equipment there is no reason you can't "get away" with higher than legal speeds on/in any motorized vehicle.

There is a liability issue at point of sale of manufactured equipment so that is why they have to have a "for off road use" disclaimer if it doesn't meet the federal regs. If you get in any kind of accident there could be problems also.

Personally I am happy in the 25-30mph range using conventional bicycle frames, tires, wheels and brakes. Which oddly enough is legal in most states for gas motored bikes but not electric. Hopefully we never see the anemic EU regs over here though, 250w and 15 mph isn't worth the hassle IMNSHO. They pushed for more power last year but got shut down and are now selling 450w bikes that will do 28mph that require a moped type registration requiring a plate, helmet and insurance. Still 450w isn't going to get you up much of a hill that fast.
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Old 05-18-13, 07:42 AM   #5
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I understand the speed limit thing I'm just wondering who out there rides a bike on the street that exceeds the federal mandate of power and speed.
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Old 05-18-13, 09:59 AM   #6
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Let's get something really, really, really straight. There is no such thing as a "Federal Mandate" unless you are a commercial bike manufacturer !!! The U.S. federal law concerning e-bikes is not directed or meant for the general public and if you actually looked it up and read it you would realize this fairly quickly because it says right in the law who it applies to and in what situations !!!

All the federal law says is that if you are a bike manufacturer so long as you build your e-bikes so that they can't go any faster then 20-mph under motor power alone then the bike doesn't have to meet any additional requirements to be legally marketed and sold in the U.S. beyond the standards that already exist for pedal only bikes. All the "Federal Mandate" does is make it easier for bike companies to build, market, and sell e-bikes without having to jump through any extra hoops. If they wish they can build e-bikes that are more powerful and faster but if they do so they are subject to meeting additional regulations and such (like Mo-Peds). The "Federal Mandate" does not govern whether an e-bike is road legal or not, those laws are set by the individual 50 states for their own territories. Some states like NY have chosen to completely outlaw e-bikes and they are not road legal period and the "Federal Mandate" does not over-rule that. Other states like my own MT allow more powerful and faster e-bikes (2-hp/1,492watts & 30-mph without pedaling) then what is allowed under the so called "Federal Mandate" which as I have explained only applies to commercial manufactures not the private individual and has nothing to do with where and how an e-bike is road legal or not.

Whether you are breaking the law or not as a private individual who is not making a business out of building and selling e-bikes depends on your state law (check the traffic code section) assuming you are riding on the road. If your not riding on the road but are off road only then it doesn't matter anyway. Here is a good source of information concerning this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electri...#United_States

As to actually breaking the law (the actual law not misguided opinions on what you think the law is) that is your choice, and your consequences if you get caught or more importantly cause an accident that results in loss or injury to life or property. I do all my own builds to meet the laws in my state to be street legal in my state and I also ride legally and not make an @$$ out of myself by flying through red lights drunk as a skunk running without lights as a Night Ninja E-biker on the wrong side of the road playing chicken with oncoming traffic going 40+ mph in 25-mph speed zones (not a joke, I know someone who does that locally right on schedule when the bars close).
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Old 05-18-13, 12:37 PM   #7
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Let's get something really, really, really straight. There is no such thing as a "Federal Mandate" unless you are a commercial bike manufacturer !!! The U.S. federal law concerning e-bikes is not directed or meant for the general public and if you actually looked it up and read it you would realize this fairly quickly because it says right in the law who it applies to and in what situations !!!

All the federal law says is that if you are a bike manufacturer so long as you build your e-bikes so that they can't go any faster then 20-mph under motor power alone then the bike doesn't have to meet any additional requirements to be legally marketed and sold in the U.S. beyond the standards that already exist for pedal only bikes. All the "Federal Mandate" does is make it easier for bike companies to build, market, and sell e-bikes without having to jump through any extra hoops. If they wish they can build e-bikes that are more powerful and faster but if they do so they are subject to meeting additional regulations and such (like Mo-Peds). The "Federal Mandate" does not govern whether an e-bike is road legal or not, those laws are set by the individual 50 states for their own territories. Some states like NY have chosen to completely outlaw e-bikes and they are not road legal period and the "Federal Mandate" does not over-rule that. Other states like my own MT allow more powerful and faster e-bikes (2-hp/1,492watts & 30-mph without pedaling) then what is allowed under the so called "Federal Mandate" which as I have explained only applies to commercial manufactures not the private individual and has nothing to do with where and how an e-bike is road legal or not.

Whether you are breaking the law or not as a private individual who is not making a business out of building and selling e-bikes depends on your state law (check the traffic code section) assuming you are riding on the road. If your not riding on the road but are off road only then it doesn't matter anyway. Here is a good source of information concerning this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electri...#United_States

As to actually breaking the law (the actual law not misguided opinions on what you think the law is) that is your choice, and your consequences if you get caught or more importantly cause an accident that results in loss or injury to life or property. I do all my own builds to meet the laws in my state to be street legal in my state and I also ride legally and not make an @$$ out of myself by flying through red lights drunk as a skunk running without lights as a Night Ninja E-biker on the wrong side of the road playing chicken with oncoming traffic going 40+ mph in 25-mph speed zones (not a joke, I know someone who does that locally right on schedule when the bars close).
I might be moving to Montana soon, to ride me some e-Bikes with ZOOM
I believe Montana does not have the 20 MPH limit thing ? If I lived there I would on my bike work the controllerfor the extra 5 MPH or so thats in it but here in NY { NYC to be exact ** theres issues with the Food Delivery guys riding over 20 & creating a dangerous situation for the 9 million people on such a small island so 20 is a good thing for here in NY
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Old 05-18-13, 12:54 PM   #8
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Yup, up here in MT the law says we can do up to 30-mph under motor power alone and can go faster then that with pedaling as well. I've got most of my builds tuned to do about 25-mph, some a little under, some a little more. That works out well for me for riding in traffic in town riding "ALL IN" like I was a car in the center of the lane. When the speed limit is 25 and your going 25 its pretty hard to get stuck with an "impeding traffic" charge although there have been a few local officers who have tried and failed and been severely embarrassed in court as a result. Its really good when they self incriminate themselves on video because they don't know you have a camera running when they are giving you a ticket and their small man attitude and mad pig in a uniform dance complete with the "I don't care what the law says" quote out of their fat face ends up in front of a judge.



*Added Edit Note: Not all cops are bicyclist haters that try to enforce their own opinion in direct contradiction to the law. Not all cops have small man syndrome. Not all cops are pigs. But some are, some are all of those and more.
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Old 05-18-13, 01:12 PM   #9
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I hit 25 pretty much daily with pedaling my azz off mostly a little down hill action, sometime the wind catches you just right, the other day I was freaked out because I thought my speed limiter stopped working but it was just the combination of my stamina's improvement & some wind @ my stern { boating family ** it was pretty cool phenomenon " wow the bike just got faster, cool " hmm it's my legs that are geting stronger, I've been doing 40 miles a day since the weather got nicer.
I agree with you about the police, I always support the Police it's the backbone of our Society but some a crazy MF's, LOL.. Rouges
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Old 05-18-13, 01:17 PM   #10
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Also, at least from the Wiki page MT is not the highest speed state. At least one state is listed as having a 40-mph top speed and a lot don't have info listed and could be as high or higher. I've also heard rumors of one state that has a law that simply states that bicycles with helper motors of no more then 5-hp (thats over 3-Kw) are simply to be treated the same as any other bicycle with no maximum speed even mentioned. If that is true then one could really make some interesting applications of that law, considering that with a recumbent with a fiberglass aero-pod around it can go over 40-mph under human power alone, put a big motor on that and you might have to start worrying more about getting speeding tickets.
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Old 05-18-13, 01:24 PM   #11
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5 HP is where the fat bike 3 " tires come into the picture & a serious frame & components
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Old 05-18-13, 01:25 PM   #12
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Yup, I can hit 25 on most of my pedal only bikes for short sprint distances as well. Can actually hold that speed for a while on the flat provided I'm not fighting wind or hill on my one and only drop bar road bike but I don't ride that very often, that's only for pleasure rides. Can't trust those skinny little tires and light weight frame for reliability on the commutes.

Personally I think 25 is about right, plus a little bit of top end above that provided by "mashing it" on the pedals if needed seems to do the job nicely at least for practical transportation and being able to hold my own in town traffic.
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Old 05-18-13, 01:31 PM   #13
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Agreed - If I was going to build a 5-hp build something beyond normal bicycle components would be needed. Probably start looking at Moped components at least for the wheels. I'd just weld my own frame from SS tubing stock, already done that for a few of my builds, just use bigger tubes where you need more strength. I've got one home-made frame that the tubing sizes except for the Head-Tube, Bottom-Bracket and Seat Post tube are all 1/2" and 3/4" tube for a pretty light build and I've also got a build that has 3" tubes on it.
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Old 05-20-13, 08:20 AM   #14
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2013 is the year of the illegal ebikes

I'm the proud owner of one of those rare Prodeco "Outlaw SS" Ebikes!

This Candy Orange Metallic version of the hot new Outlaw Series carries a top speed of 28 mph, which is guaranteed to take your riding experience beyond the wildest of e-bike imaginations!

What Prodeco REALLY means is, "This Candy Orange Metallic Version is a rolling "F**K YOU" to both Police and EndlessSphere.com members alike. If your mission is to just piss EVERYONE off.. just TRY and take this thing out on your local city streets and bike paths. You know you wanna!

However, the summer headlines are here "2013 IS THE YEAR OF THE ILLEGAL EBIKES" and the cops are out in full force 24/7!

Prepare for police chases that EXCEED BEYOND 20MPH!!!


I tried that "Offroad only" stuff and you know what? Deep in the woods I actually spotted BIGFOOT! He pointed out that my battery was mounted on the rear rack and that's ILLEGAL in the woods. At that very moment I flinched and hit my throttle lever (I forgot to hit the little red killswitch button) causing the front wheel the OutlawSS to fly up and nail Bigfoot RIGHT IN THE NUTS!! As he stumbled off the path and collapsed on the forest floor holding his groin I spun my bike around and took off as fast as I could!! In the distance I heard Bigfoot scream, "I got a picture of you on that thing with my IPHONE5 and I'm reporting you TO THE COPS!!"
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Old 05-20-13, 11:33 AM   #15
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^ I'm assuming that was some kind of attempt at humor. I will agree that if you break the law (the actual law in regard to street legal status in your state) you don't really have anything to complain about if you get busted by the cops.

As to batteries on a rear rack being illegal in the woods - I think your BigFoot (Perhaps a smart ass hiker with big feet who didn't like you and your e-bike on the same trail as him?) was just pulling stuff out of his @$$. I've had the US Forest Service about tie themselves in knots trying to answer my question as to whether e-bikes are legal on all trails that bicycles are legal on or if they are only legal on trails accessible to motorized travel since their rules don't address e-bikes and they can't figure out an answer they can conclusively back up in writing. About the closest I have come is one of them who although she wasn't willing to put it in writing basically said that on federal forest lands if my e-bike met the federal manufactures standards (750watts, 20mph max) then I could probably make a case that would hold up in court if they tried to bust me for riding on a trail that was open to bicycles but not open to motorized ATV's but I probably couldn't make a case that would stand up if my bike exceeded the federal manufactures standards. The state trust forest lands office had even less of a clue as to how to answer the question for the lands they are responsible for.

No-where did where the battery was mounted ever come up as even a question.
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Old 05-20-13, 02:06 PM   #16
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I'm the proud owner of one of those rare Prodeco "Outlaw SS" Ebikes!

This Candy Orange Metallic version of the hot new Outlaw Series carries a top speed of 28 mph, which is guaranteed to take your riding experience beyond the wildest of e-bike imaginations!

What Prodeco REALLY means is, "This Candy Orange Metallic Version is a rolling "F**K YOU" to both Police and EndlessSphere.com members alike. If your mission is to just piss EVERYONE off.. just TRY and take this thing out on your local city streets and bike paths. You know you wanna!

However, the summer headlines are here "2013 IS THE YEAR OF THE ILLEGAL EBIKES" and the cops are out in full force 24/7!

Prepare for police chases that EXCEED BEYOND 20MPH!!!


I tried that "Offroad only" stuff and you know what? Deep in the woods I actually spotted BIGFOOT! He pointed out that my battery was mounted on the rear rack and that's ILLEGAL in the woods. At that very moment I flinched and hit my throttle lever (I forgot to hit the little red killswitch button) causing the front wheel the OutlawSS to fly up and nail Bigfoot RIGHT IN THE NUTS!! As he stumbled off the path and collapsed on the forest floor holding his groin I spun my bike around and took off as fast as I could!! In the distance I heard Bigfoot scream, "I got a picture of you on that thing with my IPHONE5 and I'm reporting you TO THE COPS!!"
It's common knowledge Prodeco uses many Chinese parts on their bikes, I believe Bigfoot would have nothing to do with those rides, maybe a you saw a Panda though
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Old 05-20-13, 08:05 PM   #17
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It's common knowledge Prodeco uses many Chinese parts on their bikes, I believe Bigfoot would have nothing to do with those rides, maybe a you saw a Panda though

My Production E-bike would totally blow away your Production E-bike any day of the week in a street race.

Your bike was designed for old ladies that smell like mothballs!
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Old 05-21-13, 05:45 AM   #18
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Wow , sensitive guy, just a joke my friend i
Old ladies ? really ! 5 minutes work to the controller & I'll come close to 28 MPH's but I dont want to break the law, because I have respect for the hobby/sport . Who needs to create issues for others with 28 MPH E-Bikes ? Big problems with them in NYC. On a lighter note, i do like the color of your Outlaw..he he
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Old 05-21-13, 07:51 AM   #19
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Wow , sensitive guy, just a joke my friend i
Old ladies ? really ! 5 minutes work to the controller & I'll come close to 28 MPH's but I dont want to break the law, because I have respect for the hobby/sport . Who needs to create issues for others with 28 MPH E-Bikes ? Big problems with them in NYC. On a lighter note, i do likethe color of your Outlaw..he he
Naw, not sensitive. I'm just up for the challenge. Up for the Ebike challenge!

However, since the thread topic is "Breaking The Law" I wanted to imagine late night street-races with Illegal Ebikes, Drive-in restraunts that serve insanely GREASY burgers and Fries with girls in miniskirts serving it all up on roller skates! Just like those old-school muscle car movies!

But alas, here we are.. 2013. We're a bunch of DORKS gliding around on battery powered bicycles, buying "healthy" fast food from Burger King which the government has set new standards to which makes it all taste LIKE CRAP! Then we glide off like sweet little E-princess's at a "governed" 20MPH back home where it's another exciting evening of internet porn with the jergens and kleenex.

Sad. However, I believe in you Scaliboy62. I believe that deep down you wanna hotrod that Rmartin, hit the throttle and light up that back tire filling an entire intersection up with smoke from burning rubber! Or better yet just lean the bike down and spin doughnut after doughnut. Other men will hate you! Children will worship you! Women will WANT you! Well, they might want you to come over and fix their malfunctioning washing machine but that's beside the point.

Listen Scali, we are in this together. It is time.. time to rock.

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Old 05-21-13, 08:32 AM   #20
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If I lived in a state where it's OK to go over 20 MPH I would tweak it, not that I'm a saint when it comes to the law when I ride but I just would'nt want to risk having my bike taken away I enjoy it so much or have the Cops crack down on the E-Bikes in my area.
It's really about the exercise & running errands for me & 20 MPH is really fine, I'm doing 40 miles a day lately & my blood pressure is close to normal.
The race to have or the " challenge " with e-bikes is an " Endurance" challenge. I've hit 4000 miles on mine just recently 8 months ago & I feel it's a quality bike my Prodeco Storm I hated but tha's an entry level bike for them to be fair & I noticed they have much better components on their more expensive bikes. One thing about Prodeco they seem to listen to their customers in the sense they offer better components the customers want..
I think I still have a slight bad taste in my mouth as I took a 500 dollar hit when I sold my bike a month after buying it but it was a learning experience. I'll have to work my controller & install a toggle switch with an over 20 MPH WOT position if any Outlaw bikes are around & they want to run

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Old 05-22-13, 05:41 AM   #21
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If I lived in a state where it's OK to go over 20 MPH I would tweak it, not that I'm a saint when it comes to the law when I ride but I just would'nt want to risk having my bike taken away I enjoy it so much or have the Cops crack down on the E-Bikes in my area.
It's really about the exercise & running errands for me & 20 MPH is really fine, I'm doing 40 miles a day lately & my blood pressure is close to normal.
In the state of New York, I believe it to be a smart decision to be "cool" since those ******bag delivery guys in NYC are apparently ruining it for everybody.

Sensitive issue for sure. Ride safe Scali.. ride healthy!
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Old 06-07-13, 10:06 AM   #22
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Where I live it is illegal to ride what I ride
How do I get away with this
By applying COMMON sense and drawing as little attention as I can
Those videos showing bikes overtaking cars .....
So person on already illegal vehicle exceeds speed limit to "show off"
like in HighPowerCycles video
Such stupid videos will only create backlash against ebikes
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Old 06-10-13, 08:18 PM   #23
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Cool

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Where I live it is illegal to ride what I ride
How do I get away with this
By applying COMMON sense and drawing as little attention as I can
Those videos showing bikes overtaking cars .....
So person on already illegal vehicle exceeds speed limit to "show off"
like in HighPowerCycles video
Such stupid videos will only create backlash against ebikes

My heavily modified Prodeco OutlawSS would totally SMOKE that bike your riding on Powell. Illegal? Pffft.. what you've got is a step up from a plastic battery powered Walmart Strawberry Shortcake trike for little girls.

I say we dragrace. Maybe my bro Scali will bring his Mipower and burn some up some of his own Lithium.
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Old 06-11-13, 04:16 AM   #24
Scaliboy62
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Remeber the IROC races { International Race of Champions ** all the cars were perfectly tuned , same HP, suspension totally identical.
Picture an E-Bike race like that- say all Prodeco Outlaws calibrated @ 30 MPH bikes on a special private course, twisties,straight away maybe 1/2 mile around, heck throw some trails in there too grass, dirt.
Make the race 40 laps everyone has a 9 AH battery. Now that would be fun using your body's stamina combined with electrical power & technique.
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Old 06-11-13, 03:15 PM   #25
powell
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I did not build ebike to race
It is commuter
My point is that repeated pattern of such behavior on bikes can only result in complain from drivers and public
Look what happened in NYC
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