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  1. #1
    Senior Member rapattack's Avatar
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    My brake pads wear out quick on my new ebike

    H i previously owned two other ebikes and i the only complaint i have about this ebike is the brake pads wear out too quick. I only bought it this year. I do brake a fair bit as i get a bit scared going down hills but the previous ebike i had for 3 years i never changed the brake pads and i rode the same. Rge previous bike was a ex rental as well so for me not to wear them out is saying something. Plus i had not ridden up until then for 20 years. So i was a pretty crap rider. Oh and i had not ever used gears before. In the 80's when i rode a lot and was athletic i only had an old back braking bike(Malvern Star). No gears. The last time the brake pads wore down now with hindsight i probably didnt wear them down enough but i got scared as the time it took for them to initiate was too long. I didnt know you could adjust where the handlebars are if uyou know what i mean. Remember i am still new to this sort of thing. I got the bike store to change them as i was not confident enough to change it myself but this time round i did. Well only the front pads so far. Anyway i also noticed the pads are closer to the wheel than my previous bike. I just feel the braking time is too slow when they wear down. It got explained to me there is a 'wear line' on the pad so now i know that from a community group here in sydney called bike club. So not sure what to do from here. Is there better quality pads that dont wear out so quick or am i doing something wrong? Plus youtube videos are probably the way to go so i can see what i am supposed to do :0) oh and i am on a pension so spending a lot is not something i can do :0)
    Just re looked on ebay and found these two ads...so nt sure if they are too cheap or
    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1PAIR-Baradine-MTB-Road-Cycling-Bicycle-Bike-V-Brake-Holder-Pads-Shoes-Skid-Glue-/190939553796?pt=AU_Sport_Cycling_Parts&
    hash=item2c74e26004

    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2x-Mounta...item3cbe51235b
    Last edited by rapattack; 12-05-13 at 07:24 AM. Reason: more info

  2. #2
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    ebike suppose to have regenerative /regen/ breaking.
    I have regen breaking on both my ebikes.
    On one ebike /TidalForce/ I changed pads 3 winters ago /used for winter commuting only/, still not even half worn out.
    On my EPLUS ebike I installed disc front brake 1 year ago and pads are like new after more than 2000km of use due to regen breakig.
    Basically on both my ebikes mech/griding/ brakes are use for panic/emergency on only

  3. #3
    Transportation Cyclist turbo1889's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powell View Post
    ebike suppose to have regenerative /regen/ breaking.
    I have regen breaking on both my ebikes.
    On one ebike /TidalForce/ I changed pads 3 winters ago /used for winter commuting only/, still not even half worn out.
    On my EPLUS ebike I installed disc front brake 1 year ago and pads are like new after more than 2000km of use due to regen breakig.
    Basically on both my ebikes mech/griding/ brakes are use for panic/emergency on only
    Re-gen braking is only possible with e-bikes that use a motor coupled to the wheel that does not include a freewheel (usually direct drive hub motors but can also be chain drive single gearing second chain on left side type as well). Such a bike if pedaled only without using the motor means the rider has to fight the cogging drag of the motor and also has only one gearing ratio on the motor (direct drive is obviously 1-to-1 ratio).

    For these reasons many e-bikes do not use this kind of non-freewheeling motor drive system and thus are not capable of re-gen braking and this is by no means just the cheap china bikes, quite on the contrary many of the highest priced high end European mid-drive bikes for this reason have no re-gen braking capability.

    Also, the OP is in Australia where their e-bike laws only allow 200-watts maximum power for e-bikes and I have never seen a direct drive hub motor (capable of re-gen braking) that small. To my knowledge every hub-motor of that size and every mid-drive kit of that size have been freewheeling units (and thus are not capable of re-gen braking).

    Just telling a poster to use their re-gen braking and that "e-bikes are supposed to have re-gen braking" is not very helpful when many e-bikes, especially the ones legal in the posters country, do not have it for very good engineering and component availability reasons.

    I do agree with you that if you do have a system that is non-freewheeling on the motor drive and is capable of re-gen braking then using re-gen braking will most certainly substantially reduce brake pad wear. Just not all (and maybe even the minority) of e-bikes have that capability and I have yet to see any Aussie legal system that has it, ever.




    ----------------------------------------------------

    In answer to the OP's original question:

    I'm using higher end more expensive V-brake pads on my e-bikes (that have rim-brakes) recommended to me by my LBS that the rubber pads are replaceable cartridge units so you only have to change the actual rubber part only and not the whole metal support shoe and do not even have to unbolt them and just release the little spring catch and slide out the rubbers and slide new ones in. They are over $20 a set (need two sets for a two wheel bike) initially but the rubber replacement cartridges are reasonable and they last longer then the cheapo pads anyway so in the long run you actually end up ahead on the cost and it is also very easy to carry a replacement set or two and quickly change out without any tools on the side of the road. I never bothered to actually figure out how long they last in miles or anything like that but can tell you in general they last at least twice as long as regular cheapo pads and you get significant better braking action to boot.

    My suggestion would be to save up and buy those really good brake shoes with the replaceable slide in rubber cartridges. For this particular nitch in the long term buying the more expensive quality will actually save you money. I don't have the brand name and model of the ones I use off the top of my head since I just know where to find them on the rack at my LBS but I'll do some internet searches and see if I can find them and post a link for you.
    Last edited by turbo1889; 12-06-13 at 04:50 AM.

  4. #4
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    It is helpful to know for new to ebikes what ebkes are capable of, so it is helpful.
    Please do not judge other people posts?
    you dont know what he finally rides exactely he does not write exactely.
    I know of course that not all ebike drive can use regen, geared hub cannot , everybdy know that.
    I wrote about my situation, right?

  5. #5
    Transportation Cyclist turbo1889's Avatar
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    Went out and checked a couple bikes in the shop. What I'm personally buying and using to good effect from my LBS are "Shimano M70R2" shoes and pad inserts.

    But it does appear that this style of shoe and replaceable pad are made by many others as well and it appears that in many cases the pads are interchangeable as in you can buy one brand of shoes and put another brand of replacement pad cartridges in them. They appear to be using mainly one "70-72mm" cartridge size.

    Here is an e-bay link, can't guarantee the quality off some of the cheap off brand ones of course but I can tell you the "Shimano" brand name ones work great for me and I would be surprised if the other major brand name ones like "SRAM" and others wouldn't be reliably good to buy as well:

    http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw...brake&_sacat=0

  6. #6
    Transportation Cyclist turbo1889's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powell View Post
    . . . Please do not judge other people posts? . . .
    Please take your own advise in that area. This was not by any means the first time you have posted in this forum section basically telling other posters to "get a decent e-bike, yours don't have what it is supposed to have" instead of even addressing the question they were asking about how to make what they have work for them.

    You just don't like it because this time you got your post judged rather then you being the one doing the judging of other peoples posts like a few of your former posts in this section which if you so desire I can link too for reminder.

    The question the OP asked was not whether or not "ebike suppose to have regenerative /regen/ breaking." (direct quote of your opening line) and if his don't have it then that is his problem (as in "get a decent bike dude").

    I actually have agreed with you many times in the past where you have told people they need to buy a little better quality but in a situation where a person already has the bike already and they are asking about brake pads you tell them to get better quality brake pads not tell them to get a whole different bike because there's is somehow lacking especially when where it is supposedly lacking isn't a quality issue at all.
    Last edited by turbo1889; 12-06-13 at 06:01 AM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member rapattack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powell View Post
    ebike suppose to have regenerative /regen/ breaking.
    I have regen breaking on both my ebikes.
    On one ebike /TidalForce/ I changed pads 3 winters ago /used for winter commuting only/, still not even half worn out.
    On my EPLUS ebike I installed disc front brake 1 year ago and pads are like new after more than 2000km of use due to regen breakig.
    Basically on both my ebikes mech/griding/ brakes are use for panic/emergency on only
    Thanks i have no idea what that type of braking is. I have only seen disc brakes and vbrakes. Anyway i have mo time to research or the money to change things

  8. #8
    Senior Member rapattack's Avatar
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    Thanks Turbo i would like to know more about those. I would need to know the conversion rate but will not be able to afford them for a really long time. I am saving to go to LA in JUne 2014 so there will be no extra money coming to buy non-essentials

  9. #9
    Senior Member rapattack's Avatar
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    I am not new to ebikes powell...only this bike. This is the third ebike i have had.

  10. #10
    Senior Member rapattack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbo1889 View Post
    Went out and checked a couple bikes in the shop. What I'm personally buying and using to good effect from my LBS are "Shimano M70R2" shoes and pad inserts.

    But it does appear that this style of shoe and replaceable pad are made by many others as well and it appears that in many cases the pads are interchangeable as in you can buy one brand of shoes and put another brand of replacement pad cartridges in them. They appear to be using mainly one "70-72mm" cartridge size.

    Here is an e-bay link, can't guarantee the quality off some of the cheap off brand ones of course but I can tell you the "Shimano" brand name ones work great for me and I would be surprised if the other major brand name ones like "SRAM" and others wouldn't be reliably good to buy as well:

    http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw...brake&_sacat=0
    Oh thanks will check them out in a day or so :0)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapattack View Post
    Thanks i have no idea what that type of braking is. I have only seen disc brakes and vbrakes. Anyway i have mo time to research or the money to change things
    Regen breaking is an electric breaking when your motor starts to work as generator during breaking or while going downhil - in general.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbo1889 View Post
    .... not tell them to get a whole different bike because there's is somehow lacking especially when where it is supposedly lacking isn't a quality issue at all.
    I do not tell anybody to get any "different" bike, read my posts.
    If it is usefull or not leave it to other members to decide , you do not stay on topic yourself.
    Last edited by powell; 12-07-13 at 11:34 AM.

  13. #13
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    I think the OP needs to buy better brake pads, may be more expensive at the start, but they would last longer and be cheaper in the long run... JMO
    He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts...for support rather than illumination. I do like my beer, so sometimes I do end up leaning on the lamp-post...

  14. #14
    Senior Member rapattack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powell View Post
    Regen breaking is an electric breaking when your motor starts to work as generator during breaking or while going downhil - in general.
    Maybe thats the type of braking i had in the previous bike when i first bought it. It had a lead acid battery system and the brakes were inbuilt or on the outside/next to the motor on the rear wheel. Later when we upgraded it to a lithium system we had to put v bar brakes on the frame...anyway thats the previous bike and not this one

  15. #15
    Senior Member rapattack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
    I think the OP needs to buy better brake pads, may be more expensive at the start, but they would last longer and be cheaper in the long run... JMO
    Yep looking at all the options. Just need someone to point to the better brakes. Its not like stores are going to give balanced advice. They want to make sales. I also am on a pension so i can't go too far with money

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbo1889 View Post
    Re-gen braking is only possible with e-bikes that use a motor coupled to the wheel that does not include a freewheel (usually direct drive hub motors but can also be chain drive single gearing second chain on left side type as well). Such a bike if pedaled only without using the motor means the rider has to fight the cogging drag of the motor and also has only one gearing ratio on the motor (direct drive is obviously 1-to-1 ratio).
    Sorry for the thread hi-jack but you sound knowledgeable and I have a few questions on e-bikes. I saw a Smart (from Mercedes) e-bike the other day and the specs indicated it was limited to 32kph (or close to that speed). What happens if you pedal faster than 32kph, would the bike start charging the battery? I presume this happens going down a hill, i.e. the motor limits the speed to 32?

    I would consider an e-bike if I could have it help me go 40kph. I have a 33km one-way commute that takes around 1:10 and wouldn't mind shortening that time a little. I have one hill that takes about 3 min and wouldn't mind a couple hundred extra watts for that hill as well. I currently go about 18-22kph up the hill with around 320-350w but could go quite a bit faster with 600w.

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    If you pedal faster than 32Km/Hr you go faster but without the help of the E-Assist as it just cuts out at 32Km/Hr... And no you don't re-gen when you go faster normally, but you can usually engage the re-gen whenever you want with the console, the bike also usually/automatically is in re-gen when you use the brakes... And no, the motor doesn't limit the speed of the bike, it just cuts out allowing the bike to go as fast as you can without any assist. To go faster than 32Km/Hr with assist, you will need to hack the computer nanny...
    Last edited by 350htrr; 12-08-13 at 04:19 PM. Reason: spelling
    He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts...for support rather than illumination. I do like my beer, so sometimes I do end up leaning on the lamp-post...

  18. #18
    Transportation Cyclist turbo1889's Avatar
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    Every speed limiter I have ever seen just turns the motor off once you go above a certain speed. Reg-en braking would actually probably not be good to engage since if your pedaling that fast you want and need all your pedal power to punch through the air resistance at those kinds of speeds and you don't need any extra drag. Re-gen braking is about getting something back when you hit the brakes and the drag created by turning the motor into a generator acts like you applied the brakes part way (and is usually activated by doing so with the real brakes adjusted to not make contact and start real braking until you pull the brake levers more then about half way).

    Where re-gen braking really shines is when descending a long steep grade where normal brakes start to overheat and fade. The feeling is the same as downshifting to slow down and brake on a heavy truck and resting against the compression of a big block engine instead of engaging the air-brakes and only using the air-brakes for the last bit of stopping or if you need to stop quicker then downshifting alone does.

    Basically with e-bikes re-gen braking is like down-shifting to brake in an automobile with a manual transmission, but you get a little bit of charge boost to your battery as an extra bonus. It's a good principle but not all drive systems are capable of it.

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    350htrr, turbo1889: Thanks for the info. How difficult is it to modify the BionX controller to allow assist at higher speeds? I've seen some references to using dealer software to modify some firmware limits but not sure if it still works for current versions of BionX firmware. It seems like the 500w versions sold in Europe would be a better deal if you could get them. Also seems unfair I can't get a Cdn product shipped across the country due to some arbitrarily low speed limit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbo1889 View Post
    Every speed limiter I have ever seen just turns the motor off once you go above a certain speed. Reg-en braking would actually probably not be good to engage since if your pedaling that fast you want and need all your pedal power to punch through the air resistance at those kinds of speeds and you don't need any extra drag. Re-gen braking is about getting something back when you hit the brakes and the drag created by turning the motor into a generator acts like you applied the brakes part way (and is usually activated by doing so with the real brakes adjusted to not make contact and start real braking until you pull the brake levers more then about half way).

    Where re-gen braking really shines is when descending a long steep grade where normal brakes start to overheat and fade. The feeling is the same as downshifting to slow down and brake on a heavy truck and resting against the compression of a big block engine instead of engaging the air-brakes and only using the air-brakes for the last bit of stopping or if you need to stop quicker then downshifting alone does.

    Basically with e-bikes re-gen braking is like down-shifting to brake in an automobile with a manual transmission, but you get a little bit of charge boost to your battery as an extra bonus. It's a good principle but not all drive systems are capable of it.


    OK, Terminology, to me re-gen is when you specifically try to re-gen power, going down hills or re-gen while pedaling. That is separate/different as to when you are using the brake lever to slow you down and re-generate power at the same time... EDIT; Now the "effect" is the same, the bike will slow down as the rolling resistance is raised, but not nessesarially for the same reason. (wanting to slow down, willing to put in more effort to pedal to make power)... JMO
    Last edited by 350htrr; 12-08-13 at 05:16 PM.
    He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts...for support rather than illumination. I do like my beer, so sometimes I do end up leaning on the lamp-post...

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
    350htrr, turbo1889: Thanks for the info. How difficult is it to modify the BionX controller to allow assist at higher speeds? I've seen some references to using dealer software to modify some firmware limits but not sure if it still works for current versions of BionX firmware. It seems like the 500w versions sold in Europe would be a better deal if you could get them. Also seems unfair I can't get a Cdn product shipped across the country due to some arbitrarily low speed limit.
    The older models have a code floating around out there that you can use to modify the speed limmit... The newer models have one too I'm sure, but it's a big secret...
    He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts...for support rather than illumination. I do like my beer, so sometimes I do end up leaning on the lamp-post...

  22. #22
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    @ 350htrr

    Topic of the thread is braking. I was using "re-gen braking" as a single complete phrase. Not re-gen standing along without braking immediately following. Same is true for other posters in this thread, at least powell's post #2 in this thread which brought it up.

    I have only one e-bike that is capable of "re-gen braking" and I do use it to advantage on that one, it is my only direct drive hub motor bike. I also have a cargo hauler that I hesitate to call a bike that is ugly as sin but capable of hauling a full 1/4-ton load of cargo in a low front flat-bed that is three way powered with human pedal drive, super efficient and low emission 25-cc 4-stroke (150-mpg and many times less CO2 then any car and no worse smog emissions then 2010'ish average car) and 3/4-hp industrial monster PM brushed DC motor and I've got a double electric clutch assembly between that big heavy weight ancient mammoth of a motor and the micro 4-stroke so that you can run it as a generator either standing still or going down the road to charge the batteries (4-stroke is slightly more powerful then the electric motor so you still have about 200 watts of power plus whatever you can muster on the pedals to drive rear wheel when at max generating). That isn't re-gen though since the wheel is still freewheeling since its a mid-drive that goes through the bikes gears, just generate no "re-" about it.

    What I would really like is some kind of "re-gen only" front wheel hub that freewheels with zero extra drag except for when the brakes are engaged and then it does a whole lot of re-gen power that is nearly as effective of a braking system as a good disk brake on the front wheel and then I could have a good mid-drive for the rear wheel that goes through all the gears on the bike for hill climbing gears and then good re-gen braking on the front wheel where braking is most effective for going down the hills and in my area mountains not just hills, I do bike over mountain passes at times and brake fade can get scary on the down-side but a direct drive hub that has re-gen braking capability is also the worst climber of almost any e-bike drive system so the system that works best for going down a hill is the worst for climbing a hill and the best for climbing is the worst for descending because of no re-gen braking capability. Best solution would be to have the rear wheel being drive only with a good mid-drive (which is the most effective drive wheel) and then have the front wheel (which is the most effective braking wheel provided you don't hit the brakes too hard and go over the handlebars) with a positive clutching mechanism for zero drag when disengaged (electric clutch best, maybe?) but when engaged get some serious good re-gen braking action. That would make the perfect e-bike for mountain roads.
    Last edited by turbo1889; 12-08-13 at 07:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbo1889 View Post
    @ 350htrr

    Topic of the thread is braking. I was using "re-gen braking" as a single complete phrase. Not re-gen standing along without braking immediately following. Same is true for other posters in this thread, at least powell's post #2 in this thread which brought it up.

    I have only one e-bike that is capable of "re-gen braking" and I do use it to advantage on that one, it is my only direct drive hub motor bike. I also have a cargo hauler that I hesitate to call a bike that is ugly as sin but capable of hauling a full 1/4-ton load of cargo in a low front flat-bed that is three way powered with human pedal drive, super efficient and low emission 25-cc 4-stroke and 3/4-hp industrial monster PM brushed DC motor and I've got a double electric clutch assembly between that big heavy weight ancient mammoth of a motor and the micro 4-stroke so that you can run it as a generator either standing still or going down the road to charge the batteries (4-stroke is slightly more powerful then the electric motor so you still have about 200 watts of power plus whatever you can muster on the pedals to drive rear wheel when at max generating). That isn't re-gen though since the wheel is still freewheeling since its a mid-drive that goes through the bikes gears, just generate no "re-" about it.
    Yes, I think we are all saying the same thing, but I am just pointing out that there is "different" types of "re-gen braking"... 1, where the main reason is to slow down, but you may as well use the possible re-generated power for two purposes, or 2, where the main reason re-gen is used is to make power, usually accompanied with slowing down because the energy gained is more important than speed, not really meant to slow down... JMO...
    Last edited by 350htrr; 12-08-13 at 07:28 PM.
    He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts...for support rather than illumination. I do like my beer, so sometimes I do end up leaning on the lamp-post...

  24. #24
    Senior Member rapattack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
    Sorry for the thread hi-jack but you sound knowledgeable and I have a few questions on e-bikes. I saw a Smart (from Mercedes) e-bike the other day and the specs indicated it was limited to 32kph (or close to that speed). What happens if you pedal faster than 32kph, would the bike start charging the battery? I presume this happens going down a hill, i.e. the motor limits the speed to 32?

    I would consider an e-bike if I could have it help me go 40kph. I have a 33km one-way commute that takes around 1:10 and wouldn't mind shortening that time a little. I have one hill that takes about 3 min and wouldn't mind a couple hundred extra watts for that hill as well. I currently go about 18-22kph up the hill with around 320-350w but could go quite a bit faster with 600w.
    This is my third ebike and the motor is not used when i go down hill so it goes as fast as any bike would when pedalled or gravity taking it downhill

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