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  1. #1
    Junior Member D0gSoldi3r's Avatar
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    limit law enforcement

    I live in the U.K notorious for changing laws 'anti-fun-gestapos' within a few weeks without prior notice, as these bikes evolve i know (for a fact) our lawmakers will pass bills limiting speeds, voltages and watts & safety standards; as i haven't purchased my bike (err wheel) yet i'm a long time listener to these forums and 1st time poster, with that said...

    i'd rather have all bases covered before i make a purchase and being one step ahead of them is my priority, i'm going all in, gonna spend a fortune i so see their potential it gives me goosebumps, now say the anti-fun politicians do pull me over and test my rev is there anyway i can flick a secret switch and make it all better, so he see's the wheel turn slowly (well slower)

    it won't be till the end of mid this year gonna spend in excess of about 1.5 thousand and then another a few months down the road, but i'd like to hit the ground with all the info

    coppers in this country don't even like being wrong they'll do it just outa spite, gonna slap fake wattage stickers n all that on it but i know he'll rev it and make some down and out lie to spite me...

    not asking for anything illegal here i just know they'll try some phony tactic with me...

  2. #2
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    Use the Cycle Analyst version 3 from ebikes.ca to control your max speed. With the press of a button you could switch to a faster mode when the environment provides for it.


    If we don't make changes to our use and abuse of energy, Mother Nature will make it for us.
    Be a part of the solution to Global Warming instead of a contributor.

  3. #3
    Transportation Cyclist turbo1889's Avatar
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    Your best bet is probably to buy an Australian legal 200-watt system. To my knowledge Australia has the tightest limits on e-bike power limits other then countries that just outlaw e-bikes all-together. Thus if its Aussie legal its probably legal anywhere e-bikes are legal, and there are systems out there on the market that are specifically designed to be Aussie legal and designed to be sold in that market, go with one of them and your probably about as safe as you can legally be. In fact if it were me I'd just straight out tell the copper that I specifically bought an Aussie system because they have the most stringent restrictions and thus if its Aussie legal its legal everywhere else that e-bikes are legal.

  4. #4
    Daily Rider Robert C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBikeFL View Post
    Use the Cycle Analyst version 3 from ebikes.ca to control your max speed. With the press of a button you could switch to a faster mode when the environment provides for it.
    I have been watching the cycle-analyst discussion over at endless sphere and I have come to the conclusion that while it may have great potential, it isn't for me; or anyone else that lacks a full R&D facility. It seem that it is nearly impossible to install and make work the way it is supposed to.

    Based on what I have seen there, I suspect that most people end up just using it as an ammeter and voltmeter. Even Grin Cyclery's website points out that they are not selling a product, they are selling components for the buyers project. I did read the big Cycle-analyst thread, based on what I saw I would never recommend one.

    Yes, it is designed to do it, it really isn't important what the "it" was in the question, it is built into the design; however, there is next to no documentation and making it do, not just "it" but pretty much anything is pretty unlikely. In that thread it seems a lot of people buy it thinking they will use all of the features, then they try making the thing work. When they are done they are not doing what they hoped it would do; but they are beaming with pride and happiness that they got it to do anything at all.

    Before buying a cycle-analyst, read the thread on endless sphere.
    As a nation we still continue to enjoy a literally unprecedented prosperity; and it is probable that only reckless speculation and disregard of legitimate business methods on the part of the business world can materially mar this prosperity. Theodore Roosevelt, Sixth Annual Message, December 3, 1906

  5. #5
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    I'll second Robert's post. DO NOT BUY those CA unless you really know what you are doing. They are complicated to install on a controller and setup that was not designed for it.

    I have a CA on my 2 DIY ebike builds, but both, I bought from an endlesssphere modder, Lyen, combined with a controller. He prepares and wires the controller for the CA specifically, so connecting it is just matching up a female and male plastic connectors.

    When you can use all the features of the CA, they are absolutely amazing.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by D0gSoldi3r View Post
    I live in the U.K notorious for changing laws 'anti-fun-gestapos' within a few weeks without prior notice, as these bikes evolve i know (for a fact) our lawmakers will pass bills limiting speeds, voltages and watts & safety standards; as i haven't purchased my bike (err wheel) yet i'm a long time listener to these forums and 1st time poster, with that said...

    i'd rather have all bases covered before i make a purchase and being one step ahead of them is my priority, i'm going all in, gonna spend a fortune i so see their potential it gives me goosebumps, now say the anti-fun politicians do pull me over and test my rev is there anyway i can flick a secret switch and make it all better, so he see's the wheel turn slowly (well slower)

    it won't be till the end of mid this year gonna spend in excess of about 1.5 thousand and then another a few months down the road, but i'd like to hit the ground with all the info

    coppers in this country don't even like being wrong they'll do it just outa spite, gonna slap fake wattage stickers n all that on it but i know he'll rev it and make some down and out lie to spite me...

    not asking for anything illegal here i just know they'll try some phony tactic with me...

    I second Turbo's suggestion. Get the one that meets the strictest current limits. If you try to get cute-with some sort of "trick the coppers variable system" in short order the cops will tumble to it, and they will be looking for it-meaning it will become scrap useless.
    And as others have pointed out-the "tricky" adjustable system "cycle analyst system" apparently hasn't been debugged-
    Besides-you can always just use the 200 watt to get your feet wet-then sell it-good used stuff always sells OK(AT A DISCOUNT OF COURSE)

    200 watt= cheaper lighter simpler "Legaler"- Of course I'm a cheapskate-so my opinions are always cheapskate biased


    Slight aside-I love that "copper" -yeah in our old gangster movies cops will still called "coppers" James Cagney etc
    "Come and get me you dirty coppers"
    Copper "oldy but goody"


    Bigger aside-cops EVERYWHERE don't like being wrong or being told they are wrong or even a citizen GENTLY implying they might be mistaken

    On the BRIGHT SIDE- you "coppers" aren't lethally armed,so.....
    Here-USA- there is always the tiny chance that a road side encounter could go sideways "bang bang"

    Coppers-love that!!

  7. #7
    Junior Member D0gSoldi3r's Avatar
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    Well thanks for all the suggestions, thought i'd leave the thread a few more days to get the total opinion down...

    I'm wanting a rear hub 1000W wheel the only reason why i'm not going for anything higher is because that's the highest they sell on e-bay, i don't want to go that fast, but when i see a hill (i live in Scotland) near loch lomond, where i intend to have fun on it, plenty of hills there but i want to be able to throttle it on hilly areas. I intend on making the batteries myself, doesn't look too complicated as i'm not shelling out $450 for a new battery every 13 months when the kit to construct them is cheaper

    if cops do spot me they always like making stuff up off the cuff, and i always like arguing, recipe for disaster, i should learn to keep my mouth shut but something stops me but a quick switch that makes the wheel go slower on inspection would be perfect for me... i mean they don't pull Ferraris off the road because they can go in excess of 250+mph but they do it for excess bicycles, hypocrites...

    If your caught speeding it should be dealt to by the individual not the entire innocent E-Bike community, it's madness...

    The waiting 5 months to get my bicycle ready is killing me
    Last edited by D0gSoldi3r; 02-22-14 at 03:24 PM.

  8. #8
    Transportation Cyclist turbo1889's Avatar
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    Mid-drive allows climbing hills with low powered system. Hub motor requires lots of power to climb hills well.

    Sounds like you want to go with a big 1,000 watt hub motor and you have pretty much already made up your mind to do so.

    One possible way to "have a cheat switch" is if you get a 48V system and a controller that has a wide voltage input range so it can run on 24V or 48V and then build your battery pack as two equal size 24V packs with a parallel/series three position on/off/on double pole heavy duty toggle switch somewhere inconspicuous in the battery assembly that switches between running the two 24V packs in parallel or series and thus cuts your speed and power in half at the throw of a switch. Hard to find a controller with that wide of an input range though, usually has to be either programmable or customized. Low battery cut-off is usually the problem you run into. Some people have done it though with that kind of set-up with a parallel/series switching arrangement on two matched battery packs to double the speed and power or cut them in half at the throw of the switch.


    My personally I wouldn't try to fool the cops with a system with a cheap switch but would rather go with something I knew was legal and work to get the law changed. I agree that the way most road laws are written and how they are enforced in prejudiced towards an automobile centrist societal pre-supposition. In my view laws regarding road legality and licensing requirements should be such that what matters is how fast, how heavy, and how big the vehicle you want to operate around other innocent people is and thus how important it is to make sure your going to do it safely so as to not do harm to the lives, health, and property of innocent people. An e-bike weighing maybe 80-lbs. max if you have a big motor and battery going up a hill at 20-30 mph is far less of a "real" societal concern then a 3,000-lbs. much larger vehicle going up the same hill at 60+ mph and yet in many cases the laws are written and enforced in such a manner as to be more stringent against such an e-biker with a system capable of doing that on the hill rather then the motorist operating a significantly more dangerous faster, heavier, and larger vehicle. That's not right and the laws need to change in that regard, but its also not right to just decide to break the law and be sneaky about it either. I actually personally have more respect for someone that knowingly counts the costs and believes the law is unjust and makes a conscious moral choice to engage in civil disobedience and break it accordingly and does so openly as apposed to someone trying to do a sneaky run around and figure out a way of hiding that they are breaking the particular unjust law.

    Ultimately, though its your decision and considering your not anywhere near where I am your actions aren't going to effect me. Now if you were in the same legal jurisdiction I am and were aggravating the same "coppers" I have to deal with then that might be different. Thankfully though in my legal jurisdiction due to long term efforts in the past by devoted individuals both on the legislative and common law court end of the equation we have a pretty good law that basically says so long as the motor doesn't make it go faster then 30-mph and the motor isn't bigger then two horsepower (easily converts to 1.49 Kilowatts) and if its an internal combustion motor it isn't more then 50cc and if its still got pedals that work its fully road legal and you don't even need a drivers license (still have to follow rules of road) and you can even take the lane all the time like a motorcycle and they can't give you a ticket for taking the lane like a motorcycle. It's not too hard to stay within those limits although I have been pushing for a while to have it whittled down to just a simple speed only standard. Fact of the matter is that excessive speed is really what makes people end up hurting other innocent people with their out of control vehicles. Whether I have a 1,000 watt (1-Kw) motor or a 2,000 watt (2-Kw) motor really doesn't make my e-bike any more dangerous to others if they both go the same speed and the bigger motor is just geared down and has more torque and not more speed. Speed is what really kills, with weight and size coming in next and if anything that is where any additional requirements should be focused not on the exact power or size of the motor. Take that 250+ mph capable Ferraris you mentioned for example its not that it has a big motor that makes it a potential problem for other innocent people, its the fact that all the power of that motor is geared for speed combined with a dumb ape behind the wheel who cares more about the thrill of speed then the lives, health, and property of other innocent people. The same power of that big motor could be geared down to produce a far more useful and safer result of allowing for better towing and hauling capacity and the ability to pull big loads up big hills which is far safer for everyone else rather then the speed crazed ape behind the wheel scenario. Seems that the numb (or possibly even empty?) skulls who make the road laws and enforce them can't handle the simplest rules of Newtonian physics that dictate the KE = v^2 * m. More simply stated when you double speed you four times the lethal energy, when you triple speed you nine times the lethal energy, when you quadruple speed you sixteen times the lethal energy. That also translates to braking distance once the brakes are applied, double speed four times braking distance, triple speed nine times braking distance, quadruple speed sixteen times the braking distance. Then you have to factor in the reaction time reductions for the operator of the vehicle. Thankfully that isn't to the square as well but twice the speed still means twice the reaction time and distance traveled before the driver can even react (or three times, or four times, etc . . . ). Double the weight, triple the weight, quadruple the weight, that only doubles, triples, and quadruples the danger and has no effect on reaction times and provided you have good brakes on all wheels also has little effect on actual braking distance, twice the load means twice as much force pushing the tires into contact with the road and thus potentially twice as much braking force capability possible before the tires break loose and skid provided you have strong enough brakes to take advantage of that double traction due to double the load.

    So I agree, rules as to what is and is not road legal are not logical and sensible but rather are prejudiced towards an auto-centric speed demon "get moving, get out of the way, or get run over" type of tyrannical system. But we should work towards getting that changed rather then turning into outlaws, for the ultimate good of the future it is the best path.
    Last edited by turbo1889; 02-23-14 at 11:42 PM.

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