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Thread: Efficiency

  1. #1
    Senior Member DrkAngel's Avatar
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    Cool Efficiency

    Thought I'd graph a direct comparison of the electrical watts supplied into a motor and the actual motor output (watts) power.
    Based on a 750w motor at full throttle ...


    At 1mph energy efficiency is ~3% ... 97% wasted heat.
    Flat line at low speed is the A, (= Amps), limit of the controller.
    A lower Amp controller reduces waste at low speed without affecting higher speed performance!

    Best ... response?
    Pedal assist getting started ... and up to more efficient speed?

    Data provided by ebikes.ca/simulator
    Last edited by DrkAngel; 08-09-14 at 11:28 AM.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Ypedal's Avatar
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    Controllers are not rated in Amp Hour ..... and your graph is just as ridiculous.
    Last edited by Ypedal; 07-24-14 at 08:27 AM.

  3. #3
    Senior Member DrkAngel's Avatar
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    Cool 50A vs 30A Controller

    I've always recommended restrained throttle combined with pedal assist, from a dead stop ...

    For those incapable of throttle restraint, I recommend a reduced amperage controller.

    Full throttle - 50A vs 30A Controller

    At sub 40% speed, amperage, (effectively = throttle), is forcibly limited.
    Peak motor output and top speed are not affected!
    Last edited by DrkAngel; 07-24-14 at 08:49 AM.
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    I thought the whole point of an electric bike is that you didn't have to do any work?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by gl98115 View Post
    I thought the whole point of an electric bike is that you didn't have to do any work?
    No, it's for some assistance when you need it, If you want an E-Bike so you don't need/want to pedal you need/should get a moped... JMO
    He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts...for support rather than illumination. I do like my beer, so sometimes I do end up leaning on the lamp-post...

  6. #6
    Senior Member DrkAngel's Avatar
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    Cool eaBike vs eBike vs eMotorcycle

    Yes ... both of you ...
    Something to consider ...
    What do you expect of an eBike?
    See - eaBike vs eBike vs eMotorcycle
    Last edited by DrkAngel; 07-26-14 at 10:19 PM.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member DrkAngel's Avatar
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    Cool Aerodynamics

    Bicycle type, (largely aerodynamics), determines the amount of power to acquire various speeds.


    Frontal area is not as much a factor as the shape of the frontal area!

    See - Aerodynamics
    Last edited by DrkAngel; 07-29-14 at 06:58 AM.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member DrkAngel's Avatar
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    Cool Speed vs Range

    Speed vs Range

    Everyone likes more speed!
    Well ... most everyone.

    What most don't realize is the cost of more speed.
    Pulled from the ebikes.ca simulator, I noted the various ranges supplied at different speeds.

    Generic Mountain bike - motor only.
    665w peak output motor w/48V 10ah battery = similar to a 24V 450w peak output eZip motor - pushed to 36V 675w peak output motor.

    Anyway
    10mph = 46 miles range
    15mph = 30 miles range
    20mph = 20 miles range
    25mph = 13 miles range
    30mph = 8 miles range

    Wow! ... calculator - click click click ... Every 5mph increase in speed decreases range by 33%!

    Most are shocked at the affect wind resistance plays.
    Wind resistance is the major factor, but road load, tires, drive train etc. also contribute.

    Makes me reconsider a lot!
    Do I need 30mph capability? Nice to have it but ... don't need to use it! - OK! - Still a go.
    Road Style bike with high pressure tires and crouched position? - Working on one!
    Motor only, crouched behind an Aerodynamic fairing? Sounds almost essential - for sustained 30mph! - Battery pack mounted between bars and fork is a partial fairing. I'm sure I could easily enhance that!

    Fortunately, I tend to cruise at 15mph, commute at 20mph with only very limited bursts nearing 30mph.

    I'm even considering not upgrading (choke) my latest eZip Trailz LS.
    (I use 3 eBikes + latest eZip, + building a road version and an eTrike ... also.)
    OEM configuration is limited to 15mph in TAG (Twist And Go) mode and ~10mph in PAS (Pedal Assist System) mode.
    Well, not upgrading, till after I run a range trial with my prototype 22.2V 40Ah pack.
    I will add high pressure 1.75" tires for less rolling resistance and comfort seat and suspension post ... <15mph range trial might mean 5+ hours in the saddle!


    A differing summation of watts required for a mountain bike to maintain various speeds.

    *5mph = 22w
    10mph = 68w
    15mph = 163w
    20mph = 333w
    25mph = 601w
    30mph = 993w
    35mph = 1532w
    40mph = 2247w
    45mph = 3147w
    50mph = 4280w
    * from ebike.ca simulator

    30mph requires almost precisely 300% the energy as 20mph.
    Of course, it does not require 3x the energy per mile.
    163w/15mph = 10.86wh/mile
    333w/20mph = 16.66wh/mile
    993w/30mph = 33.1wh/mile
    Still 30mph require 2x the energy per mile, or ...
    Same ~36V 10Ah battery ...
    15mph = 30+ mile range or - 92.08 miles per kWh = 6 hour cruise time
    20mph = 20 mile range or - 60.02 miles per kWh = 3 hour cruise time
    30mph = 10 mile range or - 30.21 miles per kWh = 1 hour cruise time
    "Best of all! ... I get to play. ... http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...&thumb=1&stc=1
    Sorry! ... I'm addicted to improving enhancing.
    With side orders of inspiring enlightening!"

    Acronyms

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