exarkuhn15

Hi folks,

Can someone shed some light on the Cyo Premium headlights by B&M for me?

Lots of the models have daytime running lights, which sounds great, but I can't figure out the issue with the front reflector. Is the front reflector just reducing the output but making it street legal in Germany, or do those models actually put more light close to the bike?

I ride in the city, and don't ride that fast, so light close by seems to make the most sense, but the Cyo Premiums with the reflector are 60 lux, and those without are 80 lux. I read Peter White saying that you don't want the reflector because it's just a dimmer light, but I read on the Longleaf site something about how the reflector ones are better for city speeds because they put more light up close.

Any feedback on the differences? Thanks!

pdlamb

That "reflector" acts more like a diffuser on the light itself, spreading it out some at the bottom of the light spray. It's useful for city and suburban riding, as you have time to look down to make sure you miss that pine cone, deep pothole, or beer bottle. It's also helpful for slow turns, as when you go around a corner and want to make sure the water department didn't dig up the line to the right of the corner and left a gravel pit where you couldn't see it going straight.

The lower light level means you won't win (as many) bright light contests in a group, and you'll only be able to see the pavement far enough to roll down a hill at 20 mph instead of 25 mph (or thereabouts). If you roll along at 15 mph and don't lay the bike way over when you turn, you won't notice much difference.

It really comes down to personal preference and your riding. A helmet light may bridge the difference if you get the "brighter" light, as you can move your head to see around the corner. The helmet light can also be set to flashing if you're nervous about motorists seeing you. (They'll see your light anyway, it just helps you, or my wife, feel better about it.)

PaulRivers

I suspect you might be reading about the older Cyo lights and not the newer Cyo Premium lights. The older Cyo had different models like you're saying, the newer Cyo Premium does not. There's just 1 model, which does put light closer to the front wheel so there's no need to tradeoff and have 2 models.

Make sure it actually says Cyo Premium like this one:
Busch & Müller Lumotec IQ CYO Premium T Senso Plus - Harris Cyclery bicycle shop - West Newton, Massachusetts

There's no second model with the premium models.

hartsu

There is also a Cyo premium model with reflector. With or without daytime running lights .
Bike24 - Busch + Müller Lumotec IQ Cyo Premium R Senso Plus LED Front Light 1752QRSNDI
Bike24 - Busch + Müller Lumotec IQ Cyo Premium RT Senso Plus 60 Lux LED Front Light with DRL 1752QRTSNDI

PaulRivers

It looks to me like it might be a typo. One of those pics doesn't show the daytime running lights which were added in the premium model.
The description states 60 lux, which is the lux output of the older model, the premium is 80 lux.

Any thoughts?

hartsu

In this B&M 2015/2016 catalog, you can see the current cyo premium models.

https://www.bumm.de/fileadmin/user_up...6__English.pdf page 16.

Cyo T LED IQ-PREMIUM with daytime lights:
-T senso plus 80 Lux without front reflector
-RT senso plus 60 Lux with front reflector

Cyo LED IQ-PREMIUM without daytime lights:
-senso plus 80 Lux without front reflector
-R senso plus 60 Lux with front reflector

But i agree, too many options. At least 11 different Cyo models.

( That IQ-X looks pretty tempting....)

PaulRivers

Wow, thanks for the link!

1. They're coming out with a 100 lux iq-x dynamo light for 2016???
2. Ugh, it looks like they made:
- Cyo premimum with daytime running light (the original cyo premium)
- Cyo premium without the daytime running light
- A model of both with a reflector that reduces light ouput but appears to do nothing else useful (and all premium models have light near the bike)
- The older Cyo non-premium is still for sale

Their naming...ugh. Guess I haven't seen the model with no daytime light because they probably didn't bother to import it to the USA.

3. Doesn't look like they updated the battery equivalent models to 100 lux though
4. Their Cycle Star rearview mirror looks kinda interesting

Thanks for the link, unless I'm reading it wrong looks like they're coming out with a new 100 lux front dynamo light...

To answer the OP's question, looks like there's no good reason to get the reflector. It reduces light output without really adding anything I can tell. If you feel the need for a reflector put a cheap one on the handlebars.

fietsbob

You in Germany? there are EU requirements to have a Passive reflector even if you have an Active Headlight.

So they have them as add-ons when the headlight is made small , like the Eyc T I got.. But I'm in Oregon so I did not have to add it.

the passive Reflector, surrounding the other reflector for the downward facing LED of the IQ2 design
is what should be easy to see looking at the various models in the B&M catalog.

The daytime running lights are what it uses for the standlight when I stop. It, is a flat chip..

saturnsc2

does anybody have any additional details on that b&m 100 lux light? wow sounds fabulous! what I wonder is if it gets the 100 lux just from the dynamo. the luxos to achieve 90 lux uses a cache battery for temporary 90 lux brightness like a high beam, but just wondering if the new b&m light for 2016 is a constant 100 lux from the dynamo & no battery used. if it needs a a battery for that extra brightness then it's not a big deal...

saturnsc2

I believe the premium also comes with & without the reflector & peter white doesn't import the reflector model.

PaulRivers

It looks to me like probably an upgraded LED, different reflector, and metal housing to better get rid of heat.

Other than confirming that it's from B&M, I could not find much info on it in a google search past a few pics of the light (not running).

It looks official though, and I think 100 lux is it's constant, all the time light output. I keep hoping they'll use a nicer LED with nicer light output in their next light...we'll see.

PaulRivers

Ah, that would explain why I never heard of it in the US.

znomit

Cyo iX looks great. Hopefully its still quite cheap and has a tail light output.

saturnsc2

there's a small write up on the b&m site the link is here. it looks like a supernova style light with that metal housing & the beam pic looks unbelievable. I asked the question in a different thread just how much brighter these led lights can get & I guess their still evolving. maybe they will come up with a upgraded taillight to go with it as well. i'm sure this light will cost a king's ransom though...

saturnsc2

with the old style cyo the reflector model casts a light near the bike while the one I got throws a bright smaller beam, but on the premium model all models throw a wide beam closer to the bike so I don't know why they offer the reflector model in the premium. I think peter white said it's a german law to have the reflector in it.

saturnsc2

if the luxos needs a cache battery to achieve 90 lux I wonder how the new 100 lux b&m light can get to 100 lux constant with dynamo power alone if this is how it will be....

PaulRivers

I would guess it's going to be around the current price for the Cyo. Maybe since it's metal they'll bump it up $20 or something.

I'm to lazy to look and see if anyone listed out prices lol.

Tonight I was out riding with several different lights - a Schmidt Edelux II (90 lux) dynamo light, a Light And Motion Taz 1200 (1200 lumens, but I was only running it on medium so like 600 lumens), and a Phillip Saferide Gen 2 (80 lux).

The Edelux was "sufficient", but both the Taz and the Saferide were a lot more fun to ride with. It's not the amount of light - the Schmidt led light output is white but kinda weird on the eyes. Dunno how to describe it.

Both the Saferide and the Taz have real nice light output. It's not the amount of light - it's color temperature, or color spectrum, or...something. The Edelux "worked", but the Saferide and Taz were both "pleasant". It might even be that I'm getting older, I don't remember it being as much as an issue before.

My biggest hope is that B&M uses a better LED with better color temperature or color spectrum or whatever in their new model. More light is nice, but 20% more light or something isn't going to make as much of a difference as a better LED would. (In my opinion)

Trevtassie

Just got to remember lux and lumens are two different but related things. There is a good explanation here: Difference Between Lux and Lumens | Gemini Lights Basically you could have two lights with the same lumens or total light output but one with 60 lux and one with 80 lux. The 60 lux one would have the lumens spread out over a bigger area like a flood light, the 80 lumen one would be more like a spot light.

saturnsc2

no prices as of yet. I can imagine it will be pricey though seeing it's all aluminum & 100 lux. still not sure though if the 100 lux is all dynamo or a combination of dynamo & battery power. if it's all dynamo that would be great & that's the number 1 thing that would decide if I buy this light. hell, if you have to use batteries to crank up the lux that's cheating. you can always buy a battery night rider led light right? I was out riding with my cyo last night & still love it. bright as fire & no problem seeing anywhere. anything better then that would have to be pretty bright. seeing how much the supernova lights are I still imagine the price will be expensive. I will keep tabs on this.....

saturnsc2

this whole lumen & lux thing is a bunch of crap. there's no substitute for using my own eyes to see how bright & wide the beam of any light is. I see led flashlights on ebay claiming to be has high as 25.000 lumens! the catch is the beam is probably like a laser. to spread it out the lumens drop to nothing.... all the beam shots on the internet especially peter white's site are all exaggerated.

saturnsc2

I tried to send a message through their website, but it doesn't seem to go through as it keeps asking me for a "number". a phone number?? I have no idea as I filled in the phone numbers unless it doesn't recognize an American phone number?? I have no idea...

I was asking the price, when it will be out & if it uses battery power as well as dynamo power.

PaulRivers

Historically so far they've kept the price the same as the previous model, and just reduced the price of the previous model.

There's no reason in my opinion to think it's battery power. They've undoubtedly upgraded to a more efficient led, a metal housing acting as a heat sink might improve light output as well.

It's kinda funny how opinions vary on light output. I found my Cyo fine, but could understand people wanting it brighter. Some people claim it's way way to dim. Some people think it's hella bright. Lol, opinions are all over the place. I just hope it outputs a nicer color temperature for night riding from the led...

saturnsc2

well in this case this is an all new light unlike the 2 cyo's which are alike and hence the close prices, this light is all metal & totally different. I wonder what kind of reflector it uses something new or the current premium reflector? could be the start of a completely new line of lights. as far as opinions go on brightness as the body ages eyesight changes also. that could cause the different opinions. anyway after years of using dim flickering incandescent bulbs, then upgrading to halogen bulbs then led's, all these led lights are pretty bright & useful. I used to use 2 separate generator sets with double halogen headlights & still the beams of both those at the same time were no match for the cyo's brightness & beam throw. like night & day. I still have an old 6 volt union bottle on the rear of the bike & am tempted to wire another b&m light to it & aim it higher for a much longer beam like a high beam, but it's really not needed as the cyo is bright enough. question is what do I wire to the 12 volt bottle on the other side of the bike? i wish they made more bicycle dynamo accessories like a generator powered bike sound system?

saturnsc2

I see a little more info on this 100 lux light on the b&m site & it's now on their list of products: www.bumm.de/produkte/dynamo-scheinwerfer/lumotec-iq-x.html - Translator

I e-mailed grouchy peter white who imports these lights asked him if he has any idea on when it will be available & price. if anybody would know he would....

hartsu

MSRP € 139.90
(Hover your mouse over the "LUMOTEC IQ-X black" text on that page that you linked.)