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Base maps sources for Garmin Edge

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Base maps sources for Garmin Edge

Old 12-24-15, 02:39 PM
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Base maps sources for Garmin Edge

What sources do you use? I am familiar with OpenFietsMaps. Other options? Anyone could post a link to the North American version of Garmin cycling maps? (not to be confused with city navigator)

---

My understanding is that mapping resources fall under three categories: (1) base layers showing roads, terrain and more or less features and POIs, (2) a database used to compute routes between points A and B, and (3) "pre-computed" GPS routes that are superimposed over the base layer -- the thing we do on Strava/mapMyRide, Garmin Connect, etc.)

I have a Garmin Edge Touring (Europe Edition) that comes preloaded with a map (1+2), where (2) is a tweaked version of Open Street Maps (OSM) -- AFAIK, it uses OSM base layer in conjunction with a modified database such that suggested routes are bicycle-friendly (i.e. no highway routing, bicycle paths whenever possible, etc,).

Most pointers to resources will say that the great thing about Garmin Edge is that you can get maps for free (OSM). Which is true and makes no practical difference if you always route with GPX traces (3). But routes computed by an Edge on the basis of OSM will NOT be bicycle friendly. Whereas OpenFietsMaps is cycling friendly. The "problem" is that OpenFietsMaps fully covers only a fraction of Europe (they propose a lite version elsewhere).

---

So far, I have not been greatly impressed by the routing behavior of the Edge and prefer to map ahead of time (i.e. superimposed GPX breadcrumbs over a basemap) such that cycling friendly mapping is actually not that important.

But if you know better, please educate me

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UPDATE - .img source
---------------------------

As noted below, a good source for maps covering a small area would be garmin.openstreetmap.nl

A better solution for continent-wide maps would be garmin.kyubu.de. This sites contains daily extractions of OSM maps at the continent level (as well as as the country level) formatted as Garmin-compatible .img files. File sizes vary from a low of 900M (Africa) to a maximum of 10.6G for Europe. Planet-wide coverage comes to 21.4G. I am in the process of downloading. Will re-update once everything is installed.

Last edited by gauvins; 12-26-15 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 12-24-15, 02:59 PM
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You may already have this, but this site seems to be a pretty extensive resource: Free worldwide Garmin maps from OpenStreetMap
FWIW
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Old 12-24-15, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by gauvins
But if you know better, please educate me
* "Base map" in the Garmin world refers to the world-map (lacking in details) that all the units come with.

* The Garmin Cycle Maps aren't available except as installed on the units (Garmin Express will update the maps on the unit). That is, there isn't any official source for maps for other regions.

* The "OpenFietsMap" style maps are set up to use the routing options the 800/810 (for example, they can classify cycleways as "highways"). As you noted, the Touring has no concept of "highways", which might mean the routing for these might not work exactly the way you expect.

* While I've had good luck with on-device routing, planning routes elsewhere is going to be the most reliable.

Originally Posted by gauvins
My understanding is that mapping resources fall under three categories: (1) base layers showing roads, terrain and more or less features and POIs, (2) a database used to compute routes between points A and B, and (3) "pre-computed" GPS routes that are superimposed over the base layer -- the thing we do on Strava/mapMyRide, Garmin Connect, etc.)
This is sort of correct but ends-up not mattering too much. I'd describe it like this. Mapping data: 1- image data (stuff that you see); 2- routing information (roads/paths connected with roads/paths being classified by type; 3- location/POI- names associated with coordinates; 4- elevation data. As it turns out, this stuff can be in separate *.img files or combined. It's usually combined (but the Touring maps have most of this stuff separate).

The Garmins (with maps) can use the "routing data" to calculate A-B routes on the device but they can also calculate routes based on a loaded track (in a tcx/gpx file). The Garmins (with maps) can also do basic track following.

Last edited by njkayaker; 12-24-15 at 04:18 PM.
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Old 12-25-15, 12:28 PM
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Three additional questions:

1. Can someone explain what is the difference between the "Generic Routable" and the "Routable bicycle (openfietsMaps lite)" base layers available from Free worldwide Garmin maps from OpenStreetMap. ?

OSM says that the routing data of routable bicycle is meant for recreational cycling, which is fine. It is the "lite" qualifier that intrigues me -- does that mean that the routable bicycle base layer has fewer details compared to the Generic routable??. (the file size looks the same so I presume that imagery is identical, and that "lite" refers to the routing database).

2. Is there a "convenient" OSM source for continent-size images? Or put differently -- I like the idea of having a detailed map of the entire world on my device. Downloading country by country (or even state by state in the case of North America) is a PITA. (and inefficient as there are many redundant tiles)

3. If you know how Garmin handles overlapping images, please let me know. Example would be -- I stuff the world on the SD card "once and for all" and *maybe* update the one I would have to use in a region where I travel. Which image will be used? The larger static or the smaller updated? (ex: I have a North American base layer which is 3 years old. I add the most recent image of the state of California. Which will be displayed? The most recent? The largest? The file that came first in alphabetical order when the device got a GPS fix?
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Old 12-26-15, 06:18 PM
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I haven't looked at the Garmin maps at all, but typically there are two kinds of maps. Raster map is like a picture. The corners are accurately positioned but there isn't any route ability (it's just a picture). Vector map can have point, line, and/or area features defined as points or ordered segments. these are routable. I assume that tags are tied to the segments to define the segment type. Then the routing algorithm can give priority to certain tags (eg, bike path). "Routing finding" is a classic problem in operations analysis, typically defined in terms of maximizing or minimizing some goal, such as distance. Raster and vector maps can also be used for elevation. The raster maps are specialized, typically called "DEM"s, while for vector maps all that's needed is to define the points/segments in 3d rather than 2d.

My experience on the Garmin 800 is that it will only use a single vector map file addon, gmapsupp.img. I see in the device Garmin folder there is also gmapbmap.img which is obviously the world "basemap" that is delivered with the device. There's also a gmaptz.img which I assume is a vector map of time zone boundaries.

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Old 12-26-15, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by scott967
My experience on the Garmin 800 is that it will only use a single vector map file addon, gmapsupp.img.
.
I've added several files, renaming the gmapsupp.img to a different name (Australia.img, Asis.img, etc.) and they all load without any problem.
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Old 12-26-15, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by gauvins
1. Can someone explain what is the difference between the "Generic Routable" and the "Routable bicycle (openfietsMaps lite)" base layers available from Free worldwide Garmin maps from OpenStreetMap. ?
Generic is more for cars. The cycling maps classify cycleways as highways allowing cyclepaths to be favored by the router.

Originally Posted by gauvins
OSM says that the routing data of routable bicycle is meant for recreational cycling, which is fine. It is the "lite" qualifier that intrigues me -- does that mean that the routable bicycle base layer has fewer details compared to the Generic routable??. (the file size looks the same so I presume that imagery is identical, and that "lite" refers to the routing database).
"Lite" refers to how the maps look. The maps are less cluttered visually.

Originally Posted by gauvins
3. If you know how Garmin handles overlapping images, please let me know. Example would be -- I stuff the world on the SD card "once and for all" and *maybe* update the one I would have to use in a region where I travel. Which image will be used? The larger static or the smaller updated? (ex: I have a North American base layer which is 3 years old. I add the most recent image of the state of California. Which will be displayed? The most recent? The largest? The file that came first in alphabetical order when the device got a GPS fix?
Using overlapping regions isn't reliable.

Loading detailed maps for the whole world is crazy overkill. The website linked to above makes it easy to create a map for a custom region. It's easy enough to download maps for a remote trip before you go. Note that you can enable and disable maps on the Garmin (that's one way to avoid the overlapping map issue).

Last edited by njkayaker; 12-26-15 at 11:10 PM.
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Old 12-26-15, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by scott967
I haven't looked at the Garmin maps at all, but typically there are two kinds of maps. Raster map is like a picture. The corners are accurately positioned but there isn't any route ability (it's just a picture). Vector map can have point, line, and/or area features defined as points or ordered segments. these are routable. I assume that tags are tied to the segments to define the segment type. Then the routing algorithm can give priority to certain tags (eg, bike path). "Routing finding" is a classic problem in operations analysis, typically defined in terms of maximizing or minimizing some goal, such as distance. Raster and vector maps can also be used for elevation. The raster maps are specialized, typically called "DEM"s, while for vector maps all that's needed is to define the points/segments in 3d rather than 2d.
From what I've read, the Garmin map are a hybrid of vector and raster. The routing info has to (probably) be vector. Raster is faster to create images on the screen (but the files are bigger).

Vector gives much smaller file sizes and can be used for all zoom levels but favors having a fast CPU/computer (the Garmins are slow). Raster maps have different bitmap images for different zoom level ranges.

It appears the routing info in the Garmin maps is separate from the info used to draw the image (that is, you can remove the routing info from a map file).

Originally Posted by scott967
My experience on the Garmin 800 is that it will only use a single vector map file addon, gmapsupp.img. I see in the device Garmin folder there is also gmapbmap.img which is obviously the world "basemap" that is delivered with the device. There's also a gmaptz.img which I assume is a vector map of time zone boundaries.
The 800 and later units handle multiple map files just fine. They can even overlay multiple maps (raster or vector). They can get confused if routing data overlaps.

Last edited by njkayaker; 12-27-15 at 08:59 AM.
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Old 12-27-15, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by njkayaker
Loading detailed maps for the whole world is crazy overkill
Yes and no. I've been traveling in many parts of the world where connectivity is not good and I wished I had a map (Middle East, India, Haiti, etc.). Not for cycling. But walking/driving. Street-level whole world seems to be in the 20G range. Fits easily on a micro SD.
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Old 12-27-15, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by gauvins
Yes and no. I've been traveling in many parts of the world where connectivity is not good and I wished I had a map (Middle East, India, Haiti, etc.). Not for cycling. But walking/driving. Street-level whole world seems to be in the 20G range. Fits easily on a micro SD.
No, it doesn't make much sense. Why would you want stale maps?

The openstreetmap maps get updated very frequently. Even in the US. It makes more sense getting more up-to-date maps before you go.

I download maps to my smart phone for the places I'm visiting but before I go.

No one is suggesting you get maps when you arrive (that might not work at all).
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Old 12-27-15, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by njkayaker
No, it doesn't make much sense.
Better fresh than stale. Better stale than none.
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Old 12-27-15, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by gauvins
Better fresh than stale. Better stale than none.
It's easy to get fresh. There is no reason to get stale at all (it's a waste).
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Old 12-27-15, 06:41 PM
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OK OK, got your point . Let's just say that I like the idea of having a reasonable map of the world. Because I may forget to get a copy when I head for someplace outside of the first world. (I have recent paid maps of Europe and North America auto-updated)

But arguing back and forth is not very enlightening... so:

1. At what rate would you say that a map gets stale? POIs probably change quite a bit, streets much less, roads even less. Do you update every time you travel? Once a year? If you travel to Italy, or Wisconsin, you update the immediate region or its continent?

2. If I carry the complete set of continents on my device, what is the waste factor? Purchasing a 32G SD?
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Old 12-27-15, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by gauvins
OK OK, got your point . Let's just say that I like the idea of having a reasonable map of the world. Because I may forget to get a copy when I head for someplace outside of the first world. (I have recent paid maps of Europe and North America auto-updated).
Seems like bad planning. Keep in mind that no one is keeping you from doing whatever you want.

I use the Garmin and a smartphone app. They don't use the same map files.

Originally Posted by gauvins
1. At what rate would you say that a map gets stale? POIs probably change quite a bit, streets much less, roads even less.
It appears the problem with OSM maps is that the data often is kind of old. Sometimes, even in places you wouldn't expect. In a few years, it's possible that one won't need to update the OSM maps as frequently.

Originally Posted by gauvins
Do you update every time you travel? Once a year? If you travel to Italy, or Wisconsin, you update the immediate region or its continent?
I don't usually visit the same places repeatedly. I download just the region I need before I go. It's silly to download a map for Sweden if you are going only to Italy.

The nice thing about this website is that you can download just the map region you need.

Free worldwide Garmin maps from OpenStreetMap

Originally Posted by gauvins
2. If I carry the complete set of continents on my device, what is the waste factor? Purchasing a 32G SD?
There's no real value for doing so. And you are stuck with stale data for no good reason. No one is stopping you from doing something that doesn't make sense.

Last edited by njkayaker; 12-27-15 at 07:24 PM.
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