KH0456

Well here is the odd thing. After you asked this, I started looking through the data of my past rides when I had the issue and the rides since it was fixed... and the firmware version is the same.
My Mini is 1.10.3. (227)
Speed sensor 1.2.39

So I reached back out to Brad who is the tech in charge of the issue I was having and asked him about the version numbers and to verify that I am on the latest.
He said that the developers did release a patch to fix the issue however like other software vendors, it may or may not have bumped up the version number as it was just a patch. He did verify that the versions I have above are the latest.
All I can say is I put it through its paces and I do not have the problem anymore. Is that the same version you have? And are still having the issue of deleting pages?

raqball

I view the Mini as a good computer for beginners, weekend warriors, commuters or people like me who don't give a hoot about data. All I really want is speed and distance. I have about 15 routes that I use and I mix them up for my daily rides. I've done these routes so many times that I don't need navigation and I know the City well enough to get where I want to go if needed.

What attracted me to the Mini is the battery, the fact the battery can be changed by the user, it's size (I like smaller computers) and the fact that it's basic in nature. The more bells and whistles, the higher the chance of firmware bugs. After years of fiddling with Garmins, I want simple, easy and works as intended.

Is that the Mini? Don't know yet as today will be my 1st ride with it.

The Bolt is a fantastic computer and should meet your needs now and in the future if you think you'll want or need the extras it provides.

raqball

Thanks for the response. Yeah, that's my firmware version too but if they pushed a patch mine has not received it. I think we both got our units on the same day and mine has not updated at all since then.

weiwentg

I didn't know that background refresh applied to both wifi and cellular. Fair point. However, why did my rides get logged when I had background refresh turned off? It looks like all rides but the one ride where I used the lap function have full GPS tracks.

I have been used to selectively disabling background refresh for individual apps. I just found the global control for background refresh in settings-> general. I can try that.

raqball

Today's ride was 2 hours and 29 minutes. The battery on my Sony Z5 Compact was at 100% when I left and after the ride was over it was at 86%. So using the phones GPS to track the ride used up a total of 14% over 2 1/2 hours. Not bad at all I'd say.

The recorded GPS track was fine for the most part. I expected, and got, issues when downtown amongst the tall buildings. Nothing wonky or major just some minor GPS track drift.

Speed and total distance were about what I expected but auto pause does take a few seconds to kick in once stopped. Not a huge deal but it's not instant either. Also when slowing or accelerating, the speed lag slightly behind. Again not a big deal but something to consider.

One bummer, and I sent a feature request to Wahoo earlier, is when a text message comes in it only displays for a few seconds then goes away. I got 3 messages during my ride but only saw one in time before it cleared off the screen. On the Bolt, you can access missed messaged in the settings screen but since no such screen exists on the Mini, if you are not staring at the screen when an SMS comes in you'd never know you had missed one. Hopefully, they can resolve this by leaving SMS on the screen until the user clears it via a button press.

Lastly, the ride did not auto upload to Strava. I had to force the upload via the Wahoo app. I am going to disconnect my Strava account then reconnect before tomorrows ride and see if that helps any.

KH0456

Good assessment of the mini and about what I've found too. I use Strava but haven't tried to have it auto upload. I'll see if I can test that as well.
Sounds about right with the GPS moving around and to be expected using a phone. They aren't true GPS units and get the location by triangulating from cell towers. The more cell towers around, the more they will jump from one to another so your location may seem to move. I ride a lot out of the city and the routes tend to be very accurate.

I see the same slight lag in starting after the pause. Not bad though. I think the feature request you sent would be nice.

raqball

Send them a feature request. The more who ask for it the better the chances of getting it implemented.

https://support.wahoofitness.com/hc/en-us/requests/new

njkayaker

This is wrong.

Smartphones have GPS receivers and work fine without any access to cell towers.

GPS is a bit slow to get an accurate initial fix. The triangulation helps with that.

Smartphones can also use wifi to assist in getting a fix (there are databases of wifi networks associated with location).

Once an accurate fix is obtained, GPS on smartphones is fast and very accurate (equivalent to a handheld dedicated GPS).

GPS has known limitations in canyons (natural or urban) and heavy tree cover.

WT21

But Apple Maps always says location is better if you leave wifi on? I know there's been a GPS chip since v2 I think of the iPhone, but it seems to also use Wifi for some reason??

njkayaker

Yes, it does say that. The phone says it when using the location service (it's not Apple maps).

GPS doesn't work very well inside buildings. WiFi might work inside when GPS doesn't. WiFi location is very approximate. Also, there is no inherent location associated with a wifi router. "Somehow", the wifi SSID has to be associated with a GPS or triangulated tower location and stored in a database. Apple might want wifi on to collect that information.

So, you are generally better-off, sometimes, with wifi on (Apple is trying to make things simple).

Keep in mind that wifi range is very limited. If you are outside, you are typically out of wifi range (having wifi on or off is irrelevant).

Smartphones GPS receivers work as well as handheld dedicated GPS units (basically).

Because smartphones have other stuff, they have some tricks that dedicated GPS units can't use.

===============

GPS units are typically used for relatively long periods.

Smartphones often use location data for quick hits (very short periods of time). GPS doesn't work well for that. That's another reason smartphones also use towers and wifi.

KH0456

True and I stand corrected in that smart phones have a GPS chip in them. They do in fact work even if the phone is in Airplane mode. But the issue is that you still need cell service for most apps to work reliably. And that is the point I was making with the location jumping around on the map. If you ever look at something like google maps on your phone while standing still and see your location move around a bit, thats the cell towers. Turn off cell service and it stops moving. Your phone will use both GPS and cell tower to help locate you faster.
Sorry if I misspoke before. But you are correct.

KH0456

Great idea... and done.

njkayaker

It's usually a case of working or not working (not being "reliable").

People need to be aware whether or not a particular app needs cell service. (I wouldn't really use an app that required cell service.)

But it's easy to find apps that don't need cell service at all.

A dedicated unit does what it does "easily" but what it does is much more limited than a smartphone (a smartphone is a really a fairly general-purpose computer, with the attendant complexity of options).

I don't see that. The degree might depend on the particular phone model but there is no inherent reason that it has to be worse than a dedicated unit.

Dedicated GPS's have "jitter" too. It's noticeable in displayed speed (the units might smooth the location).

The jitter in both will be larger at start up. Smartphones start up frequently. Often, the GPS isn't kept on in smartphones, which means you might see the jitter more frequently.

Using towers (or wifi) is fast but has low accuracy (it's not usable for navigation but it might be good enough to recommend a nearby restaurant).

Using GPS is slow at startup but much more accurate and fast over more time.

Steve B.

Puzzled as to what exactly a smart phone does better then a dedicated unit ?. We are talking about the functions of a cycling computer in this thread, so a smart phone would have to have additional cycling specific functions that a dedicated cycling GPS unit doesn't have.

Never seen that.

What I've seen is that smart phone app's are typically free or very low cost, so there's the advantage of pricing, as well they then replicate what a lot of Garmin units provide.

njkayaker

Ask what a dedicated unit does better than a smartphone. People already have a smartphone and it does (basically) what the Garmins do and a whole lot more.

The Garmins are very slow compared to smartphones as well.

The thread is talking about more than just that.

KH0456 was talking about smartphones (and said some things that weren't correct) and my reply was to that (you are taking what I said out of context).

Cycling specific computers have the advantage of being smaller, better battery life, and better screens for sunlight. Cycling specific computers also tend to have better sensor support but that wouldn't be hard to add to smartphones (ANT+ appears to work better than BLE but it costs extra and there isn't enough of a market to justify it).

Apps for smartphones haven't quite duplicated the navigation that the Garmins provide. It would be easy to add it but there isn't (it appears) a market for it (partly, because people don't want to spend any money for apps).

For software (which is all that navigation needs), smartphones are a much better platform than the slow/limited CPU's in the Garmins.

raqball

I did the same route today and my ride time was 2 hours and 31 minutes. My battery started at 100% and at the end of the ride, it was at 90%. So 10% used for a 2 1/2 hour ride.

For today's ride, I changed the location settings on my phone to test out the differences and that may account for the better battery life.

On Android, you have 3 options:

1. High Accuracy (uses GPS, Cellular, and Wifi)
2. Battery Saving (uses Cellular and Wifi)
3. Device Only (uses the phones GPS)

My 1st ride that was previously mentioned, I had the phone location setting to High Accuracy but for today's ride, I set it to Device Only. In device only mode I got better battery life. The tracks are similar and I again saw issues when downtown. Minor GPS drift but nothing wacky or major.

I did disconnect my Strava account and reconnect it but the ride did not auto upload afterward. I again had to force the upload in the Wahoo app.

Android Location Setting Screenshot:

Steve B.

I had a similar issue with my Bolt, inability to automatically send a finished ride up to RWGPS. An e-mail to Wahoo yielded this response:

"I'm sorry you're having issues with the app. At this time, there is a different login between our web browser and our app logins. You will need to set up a new account to use with the apps. With that being said, however, you can use the same login information as the web browser, but it won't be connected.
From there, you should be able to sync RWGPS to automatically sync your ride results!"

In reality the iOS app version uses the very same RWGPS login info - e-mail and password as the web log-in, you just need to set it up on the app as if it were new. After that all works as intended and all my rides port to RWGPS correctly.

raqball

Thanks for that and I'll give it a shot. So I basically need to create a new Wahoo login that matches my Strava login credentials? Odd because auto upload works on my Bolt.

Steve B.

Which raises the question as to whether the phone app recognizes the Mini as a separate device to upload. I've no experience with this and in your shoes might be contacting Wahoo,

raqball

I called them and he said he'd file a bug report. I also found comments on a Wahoo Google Group where a few others mentioned the Mini is not auto uploading rides.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...rs/jynu4LsruQU

Thanks

lightbulbjim

I’m also seeing the problem with custom pages being reset. Hopefully it’s fixed soon.

Steve B.

They supposedly pushed a bug fix last week that fixed this

lightbulbjim

I saw mention of that but I've not seen any updates come through and the bug is still present on my device. Also, pushing a software update without incrementing the version number sounds... wrong.

I discovered another fun little bug on my Mini. I wanted to confirm that it can store multiple rides on the unit itself, so I switched off Bluetooth on my phone and recorded three dummy rides on the Mini. I made them five, ten and fifteen seconds long to aid identification. When I switched Bluetooth back on they all synced, but the five second ride was duplicated many times. Every few seconds another copy of it would appear on my phone. Factory resetting the Mini fixed it.

I'll do a bit more testing to confirm it's easily reproducible and then report a bug to Wahoo.

raqball

To update a little more on the Android location settings. Today I rode in both modes, Device Only, and High Accuracy. I started in Device Only mode and noticed the speed lags behind quite a bit. From a stop I'd read zero for several seconds then it would jump to something like 8, then something like 12, then 16 ect. There didn't appear to any shown incremental speed increases.

At my turnaround point I stopped and changed over to High Accuracy. This was much better as far as showing the incremental speed increases and eliminating the lag. There is still some lag but not as bad as in device only mode.

Bottom line:

Device Only gives better phone battery life but the speed displayed on the unit head lags. High Accuracy mode uses slightly more phone battery but reduces the speed lag displayed on the head unit.

raqball

Here is a tip to access some internal settings on the Mini:

1. Power on the Mini
2. Press both buttons together and quickly release them
3. The Mini internal setting page will be displayed

Helpful if you accidentally delete the Mini from the companion app and need to repair with the barcode (use the forget phone option) or to factory reset it.