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  1. #1
    GretnaBikes gretnabikes's Avatar
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    Great Lupine Wilma Review

    GretnaBikes
    Lupine Lights

  2. #2
    Baby it's cold outside... ViperZ's Avatar
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    Nice, I need one
    -Trek 5000* -Project Litespeed* -The Italian Job* -Rocky Wedge* -The Canadian Connection*

  3. #3
    GretnaBikes gretnabikes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperZ
    Nice, I need one

    You know where you can find them
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  4. #4
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    Bleh,

    A light review without some pictures of the light at night is about as useful as the "I bought a new bike" post without pictures...

    I am sure it is a kick butt light though

    -D

  5. #5
    CRIKEY!!!!!!! Cyclaholic's Avatar
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    It's a nice unit but my 3 x Cree LED homebrew light runs at 7 watts, throws ~ 450 lumens, and gets even more runtime at 1/10th the cost of that Lupine, and I could easily build one brighter than the Lupine's 800 lumens with the same runtime for 1/5 the cost. It just doesn't look as sexy, and would weigh a little more.
    There are 10 types of people in the world - the ones that can count in base 2, the ones that can't count in base 2, and the ones that didn't expect this to be in base 3.

  6. #6
    Dog is my co-pilot 2manybikes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by derath
    Bleh,

    A light review without some pictures of the light at night is about as useful as the "I bought a new bike" post without pictures...

    I am sure it is a kick butt light though

    -D
    There are beam comparison shots and other detail photos of the Wilma here. Search the forums.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #7
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    i could build up something brighter using Cree Editions from Fenix flashlights
    using the P3D, pumping out like 800-1000lumens at less than half the cost, and still be half as heavy
    if you ask me, the lupines are ripoffs!

  8. #8
    Dog is my co-pilot 2manybikes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gretnabikes
    You know where you can find them
    He (ViperZ) won't be able to resist forever ! He's almost as bad as me.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #9
    Burn-em Upus Icephaltus Gojohnnygo.'s Avatar
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    gretnabikes, I need a couple of new Lupine Wilma 6s just for testing purposes Before I decide to buy.
    Sick BubbleGum

  10. #10
    GretnaBikes gretnabikes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gojohnnygo.
    gretnabikes, I need a couple of new Lupine Wilma 6s just for testing purposes Before I decide to buy.

    Oh no problem we always work deals like that
    GretnaBikes
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  11. #11
    GretnaBikes gretnabikes's Avatar
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    To all of you that say they can build a brighter light... well lets see it! All this talk... Can any of you build a light (just one, not several, one lamp) that can put out 1400 lumens?

    grun, lets see it! I want to see this light that puts out the lumens you stated that also has dimming control that lets you modify high medium and low to whatever % you want to put out. Because if your light just puts out all that light but can't be controled... Sorry if I missed the thread you started when you explained that your light puts out said amount of lumens and has all these options.
    GretnaBikes
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  12. #12
    GretnaBikes gretnabikes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2manybikes
    He (ViperZ) won't be able to resist forever ! He's almost as bad as me.


    2manybikes, you might want to resist for just a bit longer... keep an eye out in august
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  13. #13
    Baby it's cold outside... ViperZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclaholic
    It's a nice unit but my 3 x Cree LED homebrew light runs at 7 watts, throws ~ 450 lumens, and gets even more runtime at 1/10th the cost of that Lupine, and I could easily build one brighter than the Lupine's 800 lumens with the same runtime for 1/5 the cost. It just doesn't look as sexy, and would weigh a little more.

    Those are pretty important issues to me. After a certain level of output, I would prefer refinement over pure output and lowered costs (to a particular point). I would like convenience as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by 2manybikes
    He (ViperZ) won't be able to resist forever ! He's almost as bad as me.


    "Almost as bad" being the operative here


    Quote Originally Posted by gretnabikes
    2manybikes, you might want to resist for just a bit longer... keep an eye out in august
    OK, Spill it! .... That sounds like something big is in the pipe. I should wait to then?
    -Trek 5000* -Project Litespeed* -The Italian Job* -Rocky Wedge* -The Canadian Connection*

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclaholic
    It's a nice unit but my 3 x Cree LED homebrew light runs at 7 watts, throws ~ 450 lumens, and gets even more runtime at 1/10th the cost of that Lupine, and I could easily build one brighter than the Lupine's 800 lumens with the same runtime for 1/5 the cost. It just doesn't look as sexy, and would weigh a little more.
    Does your cost estimate include battery and charger? I'm thinking it doesn't, and that's steering me toward the cygo dual cross or cateye double/triple-shot, which might be bright enough (I am using 15/20W halo), and don't require me to develop engineering skills. Much as I would like to (I keep getting stuck on the concept of a waterproof container for the LEDs if I were to buy my own, it's really wet here).

    According to the review, the wilma6's setting w/ 42 hr battery life is similar to 10 or 15W halo (it's disconcerting to me that the reviewer lumps those 2 together, their difference is apparent to me, an otherwise uneducated buffoon), so I am curious why other LED lights (those cygo and cateyes) don't claim 40 hr battery life at 10/15W equivalent output levels. Is the wilma6 really that much more efficiently designed?

  15. #15
    GretnaBikes gretnabikes's Avatar
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    Sounds like no one actually read the review, (except HardyWeinberg) just looking at the cost. All the options that come with the unit are the reason for the price.

    ViperZ, all I can say right now is keep an eye out during august... I will post up news, but then again most people will just complain about cost.
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  16. #16
    Dog is my co-pilot 2manybikes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperZ
    Those are pretty important issues to me. After a certain level of output, I would prefer refinement over pure output and lowered costs (to a particular point). I would like convenience as well.
    Not to mention, smaller, lighter, better programable charger, better programable controler many lighting modes, better programable fuel gauge, reserve tank (I think two steps), better resetable battery and light protection, best mounting system (conveninet and fast). Easily adjustable cable length. Etc. Without reading the book I can't remember all the other stuff. If anyone reads the owners manual they wil be pleasantly surprised.

    Oh, and the costly four way lens that gives a good beam shape for riding, not just light out the front.

    Almost as bad" being the operative here
    I'm completely reasonable.


    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  17. #17
    Dog is my co-pilot 2manybikes's Avatar
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    This is for those who say they can build a light as bright and cheaper than the Lupine Wilma.
    Consider all these features. (from Lupine site). You get what you pay for.


    Switching on/off
    Optimal dimming with variable frequency
    Protection from total discharging
    Voltage count – protects you not to go on a ride with an empty battery
    Electronic capacity display: monitors your battery, red + yellow LED warning
    3 additional settings for max. output – Power mode – normal mode – economy mode
    SOS signal -
    Alpin emergency signal
    - Superflash
    Capacity control – possible way to adjust the burn time monitor 2 steps dimming:
    High beam 100% power.
    Low beam choose from 12%, 40%, 60% and 75% for low beam 3 steps dimming: 100% 60% 12%
    Stepless dimming: 12% to 100%

    We don’t use a combination of 4 standard single collimated lenses. These are available in various sizes, beam patterns and angles but as usual, did not satisfy our demands.
    Our lens was customized and developed by Lupine; therefore it works alot more efficiently than a standard optic. Our own lens made it possible to tune the beam pattern and provide an excellent light for night rides. By engineering a special lens array we were able to build a nice and tiny light even with 4 LED’s.
    We are using 4 High Power new generation LED's, for a maximum output of 830 Lumens.
    Cleverly, the LEDs are user replaceable, as are the lenses - so that you will have the option of changing the lamp’s focus and coverage and when extra-super bright LEDs appear in the future, you’ll be able to replace them and upgrade without having to junk your lamp.
    LED monitor with 4 LED's, 8-bit RISC processor, 24 Mhz frequency, AC/DC changer and integrated EPROM, performance control via specially selected Power-MosFETs. CNC-machined (7020 aluminium), shot peened, black anodisized, cooling fins TOOL FREE. The lamp head can be mounted to a handlebar, helmet mount or headbelt with a surprisingly effective o-ring setup. Standard and oversized diameter handlebars are both easily accommodated.

    With 830 lumens, Wilma is already brighter than standard competitors H.I.D. systems at 500 lumens and already as bright as our wellknown high-end H.I.D. light Edison. But there are many advantages to this LED system over standard H.I.D. systems.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  18. #18
    Baby it's cold outside... ViperZ's Avatar
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    ^^^ What he said



    Quote Originally Posted by gretnabikes
    Sounds like no one actually read the review, (except HardyWeinberg) just looking at the cost. All the options that come with the unit are the reason for the price.

    ViperZ, all I can say right now is keep an eye out during august... I will post up news, but then again most people will just complain about cost.
    I read it

    August will just be in time for me to start thinking about what I need for the winter commuting again
    -Trek 5000* -Project Litespeed* -The Italian Job* -Rocky Wedge* -The Canadian Connection*

  19. #19
    CRIKEY!!!!!!! Cyclaholic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HardyWeinberg
    Does your cost estimate include battery and charger? I'm thinking it doesn't, and that's steering me toward the cygo dual cross or cateye double/triple-shot, which might be bright enough (I am using 15/20W halo), and don't require me to develop engineering skills. Much as I would like to (I keep getting stuck on the concept of a waterproof container for the LEDs if I were to buy my own, it's really wet here).

    According to the review, the wilma6's setting w/ 42 hr battery life is similar to 10 or 15W halo (it's disconcerting to me that the reviewer lumps those 2 together, their difference is apparent to me, an otherwise uneducated buffoon), so I am curious why other LED lights (those cygo and cateyes) don't claim 40 hr battery life at 10/15W equivalent output levels. Is the wilma6 really that much more efficiently designed?
    Yes, my cost includes the battery and charger, and it's not an estimate it's what I'm using right now.

    You make a good point on the engineering skills, I'm fortunate that I'm qualified in electrical engineering and have access to a good array of r&d tools.

    I glad you brought up efficiency because that's what its all about. The efficiency is primarily determined by what LED the manufacturer uses. The LED has to convert electrical energy (watts) into light (lumens) the more lumens it can make out of each watt the more efficient the light. As the LED's P-N junction gets hotter it loses efficiency at a fast rate so cooling of the LED is absolutely critical. In my case I used the CREE XR-E Q4 bin, 88 lumens per watt @350ma (Tj=25degC) rated up to 3 watts, which translates to just about the brightest and most efficient LED on the market today.

    I'm not sure which LED the Wilam uses but it's physically impossible for it to be much more efficient than my light. In fact, to get over 800 lumens from 4 LEDs it has to be running each LED in a less efficient operating region, remember that LEDs are more efficient at lower wattages. I'm producing ~450 lumens from 3 LED's whereas the wilma makes ~850 from 4 LEDs.

    I'm driving my LEDs with a 1,000ma BuckPuck with infinitely adjustable brightness and over 97% circuit efficiency (I confirmed it with some bench testing) its impossible for the wilma to be much more efficient with commercially available circuit components, they may possibly be working with NASA and sharing communications satellite technology but I somehow doubt it

    The Wilma's lenses are polycarbonate and a proprietary design, I'm also using polycarbonate lenses that are made by a company that specialises in polycarbonate lenses. The material has certain physical properties including light conduction (over 90% in a good lens) so the wilmas lense can't phisically be more efficient than that, and in fact without independent testing I suspect it may be a little more lossy than a specialist collimator lens like mine. There are also a lot of benefits to using an individual lens on each LED. I have two 9-degree spots and a 15-degree oval pattern. I might experimentwith other combinatins at some point.

    The wilma has a bunch of "microprocessor controlled" features, which is great if that's what you're looking for. I have a number of RISC micro controller units, any one of which I could program with the exact same feature set as the wilma, the chips cost a few dollars each and are available everywhere. They're blindingly fast, extremely efficient, very easy to program, and complete overkill for controlling a bicycle light. They have RAM, ROM, EEPROM, an ADC, a CPU, and more buffered I/O pins than you can poke a soldering iron at all in one tiny little CMOS package, they can be put into sleep/standby mode in software and their power consumption drops to almost nothing. All they needs is a crystal and a +5vDC regulator chip. I chose not to implement it because I have absolutely no need or desire for the bells & whistles. I did take advantage of the buckpuck's dimmer and use a switch for a low power setting (about 3 watts, approx 15 hours runtime), but I've never actually used it on the road yet.

    I haven't even begun to cover the wilma's potential lack of efficient cooling for the LEDs. I know exactly how efficient my design is because I tested it, I see no data available on the wilma so I can't comment on it but that housing is certainly not designed for efficient heat dissipation from the P-N junction where it really counts. Furtunately I didn't have to concern myself with the marketability aesthetics.

    Please don't misunderstand, I'm not trashing the wilma, not at all. Overall it's a good light, just way overpriced in my opinion. If I couldn't design & build my own and the price wasn't an issue I'd buy it. I'm just in a position where I can build something which is functionally equivalent (or better in some aspecs) at a fraction of the cost.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2manybikes
    This is for those who say they can build a light as bright and cheaper than the Lupine Wilma.
    Consider all these features. (from Lupine site). You get what you pay for.
    Don't be fooled by marketing hype. Some of those claims are unsubstantiated, and worthless without numbers from independent testing. The rest are dead easy to implement and in no way justify the high cost of the unit. I'm not talking about the quality of the product, just the marketing hype.
    Last edited by Cyclaholic; 07-04-07 at 08:34 PM.
    There are 10 types of people in the world - the ones that can count in base 2, the ones that can't count in base 2, and the ones that didn't expect this to be in base 3.

  20. #20
    CRIKEY!!!!!!! Cyclaholic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperZ
    Those are pretty important issues to me. After a certain level of output, I would prefer refinement over pure output and lowered costs (to a particular point). I would like convenience as well.
    Hmmmm, what is this 'refinement' you speak of?

    P.S. I love that photo of your bike with all the lights! it looks like those mechanical monsters with the funky tentacles in the Matrix. Howm much weight in batteries do you have there? ....and ofcourse, it's worthless without a beam shot!
    Last edited by Cyclaholic; 07-04-07 at 08:36 PM.
    There are 10 types of people in the world - the ones that can count in base 2, the ones that can't count in base 2, and the ones that didn't expect this to be in base 3.

  21. #21
    GATC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclaholic
    Yes, my cost includes the battery and charger, and it's not an estimate it's what I'm using right now.
    I think poking around the web I came up w/ ~$US20/LED ($60 for 3), and for simplicity's sake the biggest Li+ battery I could find at batteryspace.com, w/ smart charger (I guess that's a budget increase, but I myself am not a smart charger so need electronic help there) for ~$120, and that got me close enough to a commercial light price to stop my thought process there (considering how long my development time would be if I did get the parts all in a pile in front of me).

    Your summarization of actual details of your light is exactly what I can't find on pretty much any light mfr's web site, leaving me at the mercy of whichever brands the various LBS' here are stocking. I shouldn't sound like they're MDs pushing samples their pharm reps are paying them to hand out, but you just never know.

  22. #22
    Dog is my co-pilot 2manybikes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclaholic
    [Don't be fooled by marketing hype. Some of those claims are unsubstantiated, and worthless without numbers from independent testing. The rest are dead easy to implement and in no way justify the high cost of the unit. I'm not talking about the quality of the product, just the marketing hype.
    Don't be fooled by thinking Lupines performance claims are over rated marketing hype. I speak from experience. That's why I have something to say about the light, I trust them. My experience has shown they tend to be conservative on ratings, they don't need to exagerate. That's why I am speaking up in favor of a Lupine light, I already know it will do what they say or better.

    Lots of peolple can build a light similar this and save money, it still will be bigger and heavier.
    Lots of people can't build one and need, or just chose, to buy a finished bike light. Compared to what all the finished bike lights on the market sell for, you realize this light is priced according to what you get. It's value and price is compared to other finished lights, not do it yourself projects. That's apples and oranges.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  23. #23
    GretnaBikes gretnabikes's Avatar
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  24. #24
    Baby it's cold outside... ViperZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclaholic
    Hmmmm, what is this 'refinement' you speak of?
    Something that is small, compact, lightweight, waterproof, cold weather resistant, quick and easy to mount/dismount, is not quirky to use or charge, and does not make my bike look like the Back to the Future Delorean when it's on the bike.

    My HID Alias fits my year round commuting bill, however I could always use another Premium lighting system.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclaholic
    P.S. I love that photo of your bike with all the lights! it looks like those mechanical monsters with the funky tentacles in the Matrix. Howm much weight in batteries do you have there? ....and ofcourse, it's worthless without a beam shot!
    Thanks

    If you are refering to this Picture:



    Or this one:




    The lights as seen attached at top, weight in at 520g, slightly less for the 2nd picture with out the Knog Frogs.




    However seeing as your real question was "Howm much weight in batteries do you have there? "

    Only 212g for +3 hours of ride time, and lots of sexiness




    As for the beam shot, I don't have too many, but here is one from a dark backalley.

    Last edited by ViperZ; 07-05-07 at 08:51 PM.
    -Trek 5000* -Project Litespeed* -The Italian Job* -Rocky Wedge* -The Canadian Connection*

  25. #25
    why act my age? marko_1111's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2manybikes
    and when extra-super bright LEDs appear in the future
    ... this is the intriguing part. I love my l&m, but the - extra-super bright LED - upgrade path - in the future - part sounded like this technology may be coming of age. in august.

    so how do you like the knog lights? cool site. I'd like one of each. are they fun or just distracting? they look like good party favors.
    any excuse to get on a bike...

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