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Old 10-20-07, 05:15 AM   #1
kleng
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Cygolite Dual Cross 300 upgrade finished

Just finish the upgrade of my Dual Cross 300 light head.
Replaced the Luxeon led with Cree Q5 stars ordered from

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2394

Job took about 30 minutes with a bit of soldering which is a bit messy given access is limited and the contacts on the Led stars are galvanised so solder doesn't adhere as well.

Some points

1) Use flux from a pen on the Cree Q5 contacts and let completely dry, otherwise solder will not adhere to the contacts.

2) Easier to cut old wires connecting the luxeon stars as solder joints are covered with some sort of epoxy. There is plenty of wire inside the casing to extend the leads. Then just unscrew the 2 screws holding the Luxeon star to the heatsink.

3) Put a drop of solder on Cree contacts before attaching the led stars to the silver heat sink.

4) Attach stars to heat sink via the 2 screws and then feed connecting wires through heat sink.

5) Add a drop of solder to leads

6) Solder + and - wires by joining both drops of solder.

7) Clean inner surface of main lenses and Cree lens


Light is definitely brighter using both the Ni-MH battery and the Li-Ion

So for US 20.00 its definitely worth it.

I'll post some comparison photos later in the week, between the old luxeon light head and the new Cree version.

Last edited by kleng; 10-20-07 at 06:00 AM.
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Old 10-20-07, 05:39 AM   #2
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How much additional heat, if any, is created by the more powerful LED? If there is additional heat, have you tested it adequately to determine if it will tolerate the additional heat?

What do you mean by both Ni-MH and Li-ion batteries?
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Old 10-20-07, 05:57 AM   #3
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How much additional heat, if any, is created by the more powerful LED? If there is additional heat, have you tested it adequately to determine if it will tolerate the additional heat?

What do you mean by both Ni-MH and Li-ion batteries?
There doesn't appear to be any additional heat, the heat sinks in the Dual cross are very large and should handle it no problems. I have had the Cree's on for 15 minutes will no abnormal heat issues. On the bike the heat should dissipate effectively. I'm not over volting the Leds, so the dual cross standard specifications should allow the Cree's to run just like the Luxeon's

I have 2 Dual Cross lights one with the Ni-Mh battery and one with the Li-ion, I just modified one of the light heads.
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Old 10-20-07, 07:41 AM   #4
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Cool Upgrade!

I dig cleanly executed custom home projects
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Old 10-20-07, 09:59 AM   #5
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Kleng?

Want to hear what Grun has to say?
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Old 10-20-07, 01:15 PM   #6
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Nice job, Kleng....appreciate the update - especially the help with the soldering.

How's the beam? I know the Cree's tend to be a more concentrated point light, which can cause more of a spot (as compared to a Luxeon or Seoul). Some comparison beam shots with your stock DualCross would be kewl.

I've got 2 Seoul P4-Ubins and 2 Cree Q5's coming from Dealextreme.....I'm torn on which ones to use for my DualCross upgrade.
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Old 10-20-07, 03:06 PM   #7
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Kleng?

Want to hear what Grun has to say?
Grun

Yes I do, it was your advice and Zero Enigma which point me in the right direction as to what stars to get.
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Old 10-20-07, 10:20 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by kleng View Post
Grun

Yes I do, it was your advice and Zero Enigma which point me in the right direction as to what stars to get.
Grun: You took an existing model, to which the company upgraded, and the company won't do anything to help you. You go out and make something even brighter than the COMMERCIAL DUALCROSS PRO. You took a finger to them-the company. Booooo-yahhhhh!!!

Q5>SSC that Cygolite offers.

So now your older model is even stronger than the newer one out there!

<------that is all i have to say to you kleng - tiger
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Old 10-21-07, 12:50 AM   #9
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Nice job, Kleng....appreciate the update - especially the help with the soldering.

How's the beam? I know the Cree's tend to be a more concentrated point light, which can cause more of a spot (as compared to a Luxeon or Seoul). Some comparison beam shots with your stock DualCross would be kewl.

I've got 2 Seoul P4-Ubins and 2 Cree Q5's coming from Dealextreme.....I'm torn on which ones to use for my DualCross upgrade.
The soldering is the challenging bit, I couldn't reproduce the quality of the factory job.
I think the Dual Cross lenses design will standardised the light pattern, so the concentration of the led won't really matter.

I've got no experience with the Seoul P4, maybe Grun or Zero Enigma have an opinion.
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Old 10-21-07, 12:55 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grun View Post
Grun: You took an existing model, to which the company upgraded, and the company won't do anything to help you. You go out and make something even brighter than the COMMERCIAL DUALCROSS PRO. You took a finger to them-the company. Booooo-yahhhhh!!!

Q5>SSC that Cygolite offers.

So now your older model is even stronger than the newer one out there!

<------that is all i have to say to you kleng - tiger
Grun

I'm not sure if its as bright as the pro, as I have no way of comparing. I can't figure out how many mA are driving the light at full power, I think it would only be 350mA. Do you know ?

Thanks
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Old 10-21-07, 03:26 AM   #11
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Here are the comparison photos

Top photo - New Cree Q5 on the left and Luxeon 5w on the right. (both are Cygolite Dual 300 light heads)
As you can see Crees have a wider throw of light due to the increased intensity being magnified by the standard Dual Cross lenses.
Outside this translates into a wider and brighter beam.

So I'm very happy with the 20.00 investment.



Bottom photo- Luxeon 5w on left and Cree Q5 on right.



After 15mins new Crees are running slightly cooler than the Luxeons.
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Old 10-21-07, 07:55 AM   #12
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Sweet....I'm going with the Q5's for my DualCross. I'll save the Seouls for a future light build. What I should do is try and find another DualCross head. They'll probably be cheap this winter, since the Pro model has been released. A definite easy upgrade and bargain.

As for the Seoul's - I've built a triple from scratch based on this DIY guide. During my many hours of research, I've found that the Seoul seems to work well with Luxeon optics and reflectors. It's basically a direct replacement, whereas the Cree have a different pattern. The DualCross seems deep, with optics/reflectors that may favor a more forward throw. I think your beam shots show that may be the case.

This thread has been very helpful....thanks. I'm looking forward to this upgrade mod.
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Old 10-21-07, 10:54 AM   #13
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Great job!
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Old 10-21-07, 01:38 PM   #14
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Excellent job.

My question has to do with how many hours of runtime would you get on a single charge..
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Old 10-21-07, 01:59 PM   #15
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Yes, excellent job on the mod! I'd like to see some comparison projection shots if possible.
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Old 10-21-07, 08:53 PM   #16
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As I look into it a little, it appears that the current draw for the Cree is similar to the Luxeon - just that you get more light out of it.

I did some rough calculations - with the Luxeon, you get about 20 lumens/watt. With the the Cree, you get closer to 65 lumens/watt. I was reading on the web that Cree hopes to have 80 lumens/watt available by the end of the year.

I have read reports that in the lab they have gotten 130 lumens/watt, and that some believe that 200 lumens/watt is possible.

http://www.cree.com/press/press_deta...=1189687350946

Quote:
DURHAM, N.C., SEPTEMBER 13, 2007 — Cree, Inc. (Nasdaq: CREE), a leader in LED lighting components, today announced it has achieved R&D results of 129 lumens per watt for a cool-white LED and 99 lumens per watt for a warm-white LED. These are the best results reported for packaged, high-power LEDs, and they clearly indicate that Cree is extending its lead in solid-state lighting through its continued investments in LED technology.
...
Quote:
In coming years, such investments in core LED technology could lead to products that replace traditional light sources in all commercial applications. Customers may see these technology advancements in commercial products within 12 to 24 months.
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Old 10-22-07, 02:13 AM   #17
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Excellent job.

My question has to do with how many hours of runtime would you get on a single charge..
I don't expect there to be any significant difference in the runtime between the Cree's and the Luxeons
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Old 10-29-07, 10:30 AM   #18
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Completed my Q5 upgrade to my DualCross. All I can say is WOW, mega light. I find there are some of those Cree anomolies using the Cygolite-Lumiled optics. Definite hot center spot and halos that weren't as evident with the Luxeons. I bet using the Seoul U-bins, though less powerful, would provide a more balanced beam. I'm not complaining, this is definetly going to vaporize any trail varmints that cross my path.

I'm not sure what current the DC is pushing on high, but the Q5's seem brighter (and a bit bluer) than my homemade triple Seoul U-bins running at 1 amp. Very impressive.
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Old 10-29-07, 10:36 AM   #19
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Do you know if anyone has done an upgrade to a Light and Motion Vega or how difficult or practical it would be?
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Old 10-29-07, 02:39 PM   #20
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Do you know if anyone has done an upgrade to a Light and Motion Vega or how difficult or practical it would be?
What made the dual cross upgrade simple was that the standard sized luxeon led stars were just attached to the heat sinks by screws and that the connecting wires were just soldered on. Are you able to disassemble the Vega to see if it uses a led star or some proprietory led setup ?
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Old 10-30-07, 11:53 AM   #21
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Kleng, how is the light working for you?

A few of my riding group may pick up the 300...I'd like to upgrade it for them if they want to later..
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Old 10-30-07, 12:23 PM   #22
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Kleng, how is the light working for you?

A few of my riding group may pick up the 300...I'd like to upgrade it for them if they want to later..
no problems so far, runs like the original except brighter, run times about the same although I haven't run the battery completely down
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Old 10-30-07, 12:28 PM   #23
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I can also say after 2 nice rides that the DC runs well with the Cree's. I have not run the battery all the way down either...but, based on the odd battery meter light, it seems to show the same run times (which is what I would expect). Lumens are much, much better - more in-line with my triple Seoul.
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Old 10-30-07, 01:18 PM   #24
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Grun

Yes I do, it was your advice and Zero Enigma which point me in the right direction as to what stars to get.
I'll take my traditional 10% cut or a LED to try out.

My LED experience is only with SSC P4 U-bin and Luxeon III red-orange. The SSC P4's are bloodly bright as they are and staring at them or getting beamed in the eyes with 5+15 degree lenses leaves to dazzled for about 5 mins. I really would like to try the Cree Q5 and see how that LED is. One item I'm really itching to try is the Luxeon tri-rebel 540lm @ 700mA which is the size on one normally star but uses 9.45vf. OMG I must be insane for thinking this up but having 2 x tri-rebels in a dual cube LED helmet light will be so awesome. Not sure if the heat will melt the joints or something but you'd better be going 400W for the whole ride.
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Old 11-09-07, 09:49 PM   #25
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Smile

Sir which is brighter? the Cree Q5 or the Seoul P4? I'm planning to buy but i can't decide which one because i want to have a bright light. I'll also install it on my dualcross300. Thank you
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