Grun

and the size of the light is perfect

i had a kid remark, COOL DOUBLE LIGHTS!

Zero_Enigma

If you're already to try DIY clamps then check this out. The housing won't take to long to fashion if you have the right tools. With your friends around it should be quick to make and the money you save is enough for pizza every weekend for a month. LED's are cheap to get. www.dealextreme.com has lots of parts as well as lighting for cheap and bright as well. My only experience with DX is with the LED's and this was an indirect experience as my mate that made the order and I bought the LED's off him. Free S/H rocks and the prices are damn good. The guide there will help you out. I have a simple on/off setup which is pretty uncomplicated at the moment but I plan on trakign it up a level soon for more configuration. Definately something to look into seeing as ou've got a bunch of mates to ride with everyone can learn and can help repair things if something goes sideways out in the field.

dekindy

I forgot to add that if you go with 2 Dinotte's and run them both on the handlebars, then my original quote is correct. I forgot to add a $15 helmet mount if you want one on the bar and one on the helmet, which I strongly recommend. Since the special price does not include the helmet mount, new total Price is $298. Like I said, if I were purchasing lights from scratch I would purchase this combination at this price.

Dinotte offered an upgrade package for their Ultra 5, which I believe was 120 lumens, at a reasonable price. Rechargeable battery technology is only going to get better. Possibility of an upgrade and flexibility with rechargeable batteries and the ability to purchase larger battery cases makes this a great deal.

One of our retired riders that's ridden all his life has old Vista lights that still work. He felt $300 for new headlights was a realistic budget when he replaces them.

derath

I don't have a picture of it, but having my 200L next to my buddies Fenix I can tell you that they are. The 200L is brighter to begin with, and has a better beam pattern.

In the end we all use what we prefer. I wouldn't want to mount those extra large flashlights on my handlebars in the first place (maybe on my Mtn bike, the flat bar has more room). And I really wouldnt want those clamps on there all the time (nor would I want to have to take them on and off all of the time).

The dinottes and nice and small for their power, so they don't interefere with my bars. Their O-ring mount makes it super easy to take on and off (less than 30sec) and when off there is nothing left behind.

I might get a couple of those flashlights just to have around the house though.

-D

rm -rf

In a group ride, not everyone needs a bright light. If some riders only have a cheap bike light, it will still light up the road ahead to the next rider. If you are drafting the rider in front, most of your light hits the rider anyway. But at least one of the front riders needs a brighter light.

And even cheap red blinkies work when there's 5 riders bunched together, it's really noticeable from a long way back.

For AA rechargeables -- I got a set of 4 Duracell 2650 for about $10.00 and a 6 hour charger for $11.00

I'm posting a Dinotte 200L and Fenix L2D comparison later today, in a new thread. The summary: for solo riding, put a 200L on the bars, and a Fenix on the helmet, to see around curves and corners.
For group rides, the 200L would be plenty.

mulchie

I'm with dekindy on this and impressed that he went to all the trouble to do the math.
I'd suggest you call Rob at DiNotte and explain how many folks you have and see what he might do on some upgrades. The sale this weekend is great and he might not be able to beat his own offer, but I bet he'll be intrigued by the group ride thing and want to think it through. Myself, I'd want one person in the group to have a DiNotte taillight on the back because it is just a powerhouse. NOT that everyone needs one, but it is a really wonderful device.
Ditto on reflector vests, too.
I don't think you can go wrong with DeKindy's advice. esp. at this price. These lights are small, bright, convenient and elegantly designed. I mean..... ??? What more could you want?
as to rear blinkies, my Mars3 is pretty darned dim after a couple rides. I'm switching to rechargeables, but as many people note, you have to unscrew the device every time and that's a bit of a pain. If you go with Panetbike superblinkie (which I don't have) think of some way to secure it better than the given anchorage. Lots of people have them fall off and break and thats a crisp $20 down the drain in a flash.

ggg300

I have given that some thought. I think you may be right. If we run the way I think we will (one pace line of 4-5 riders) it may not be a good thing if all of our lights run out at the same time

ggg300

plz do!!! I would love that. I about ready to pull the trigger on a set.

ggg300

Dekindy's input has almost made the wife ok with the idea of a night ride (hehehe )

As for tail lights, I do think the input to run them on a solid state and two each will do. In a pace line a kick as tail light may be bad idea (blind the man in the draft)...

ggg300

If I get into the night ride, I may end up doing a DIY thing...right now, I have no tools for it.

I'd love to find a way to put the batteries inside the handle bars and run the wire under the bar tape to a nice small head lamp. Keep it on the winter/night bike all the time. It would be a clean set up.

alexdrozd

Check out the Cygolite Dual Cross Pro. Works great for me and plenty of battery life all in one complete package.

rm -rf

The Dinotte and Fenix review is here.


Taillights:
Some of the brighter taillights can be annoying in a paceline when blinking. Really, even the dimmest taillights work within a group. I've been using this Topeak Redlite for a year now. It's really tiny. It stays on my bike all the time, and uses 2 coin batteries. I got replacement batteries from an online battery store for about a dollar each. The main LED is bright, and there's two smaller LEDs aimed off to the side.

Grun

they don't have to be. It is a dual quick release mount, meaning you can either choose to take just the light off, and leave the clamp there, or take the whole thing off with the light,

it is quick, takes about 1-2 seconds, and you don't risk anyone stealing the parts off you.

it is similar to the quick release off the cygolite dualcross, quick off bar, but this clamp i find is actually faster

john bono

It depends on the bars. On my road bike, with 31.8 bars, Bar Fat gel, and nice, big, thick tape, the lights are on solidly, and hardly move. On my mtn bike, with 25mm bars, they flop around like Wilford Brimley's man-boobs.

dekindy

I don't think you can go wrong with PBSF. My Mars 3.0 is great but it suddenly started eating a set of batteries about every other ride. Blackburn sent me a new one at no charge, but it would be better not to have the hassle. I like my Mars 2.0 well also but the seat post mount broke on both mine in less than a year and I have seen many complaints about it. Blackburn sent me new seat post mounts for these also. I may have figured out why the 2.0 mount broke. The instructions specify installing the belt clip and the seat post mount together. The belt clip does fit tightly against the exact spot that the seat post mount broke so this may be the reason. Nobody, including me, read the directions or if they did read did not understand the significance. I cannot guarantee this will work but it makes me feel better about the Mars 2.0 which is also a bright tail light. I currently have mine clipped to the saddle bag loop and have not tested the new mount/belt clip combination.

dekindy

Good summary.

derath

Good to know. The pictures didn't show the bar end so it looked like the older style screw mounts. Moot point for me though since I already own all the lighting I need

ggg300

Thank you guys!

I went ahead and got two dinno's for me...and I recommended the Cygolite Dual Cross or the dinno for the rest of the group...the flash light did not go over too well...when you can get a whole bike set up for 150 with the Dual Cross it kinda makes sense...

From here, I need batteries and charger and may get a light for the helmet

HiYoSilver

You have a choice: either follow the herd and ride a bit safe at night or ride safely.

The herd's view: I can see therefore others can see me well enough.

Is that adequate to keep you safe?

A. what's your maximum speed at night?
B. what's your reaction time: from the time you see a hole/rock/branch/water patch/animal and decide to move? Probably in the 3 to 5 second range.
C. What's the lowest temperature during your ride?
D. How many feet does it take you to stop at 20 MPH?

Calculate the light you need to see [being seen is another issue and not discussed here]
Take your max speed and calculate the feet you travel per second. Remember NOT to take your average speed, but max, i.e. downhill speeds.
Feet/mile == 5280
miles/hour == 20
feet/hour == 105600 [20*5280]
feet/minute == 1760 [above divided by 60]
feet/second == 29.3 [ditto]

So, say your reaction time is 3 seconds, then you need to see clearly 91 feet ahead of you. Say you need 75 feet for an emergency stop. [I don't have a clue if that number is close. I'd have to test it] Add another 10 feet if you have to unclip. That's 176 feet.

The final variable is your eyesight. To test your vision, set your bike on a safe level spot with no traffic. Turn on the light you are testing. Measure out 176 feet and put a halloween size Milky Way on the ground. I'd use two, one at right angles to the other. Then walk back to your bike and see if you can see both bars. If you, you probably have enough light. If you can't be sure, you don't have enough light.

Say you have good sight, you are still not done. Do you ride at temps under 50F or during rain/mist? If under 50F and not using Li-ion batteries, then you need to double the light you need.

Ok, long winded but that's the scientific explanation. Here's a riders explanation. I used to commute and so in winter needed lights in am and pm. One pm I slipped on a downhill curve where there was a bit of water at the apex of the turn. I didn't like my lights and so slowed to about 15mph. I didn't like it, so I started reading about lights. It was about 40F. I had 30w Halogen light system, with NiMH batteries. NiMH loses about 1/2 it's power at that temp. Moreover 30w Halogen is not sufficient to ride safely at 20mph.

Bottom line:
A- want to ride as fast as possible and as safely as possible and remembering the most expensive bike solution is at least 1/4 the cost of any hospital visit, buy a Lupine light [about $800]

B- want to ride fast, but save some money. Get a Light and Motion or NightRider HID light. about $400.

C- need to save money first, buy a cheaper light and use the above calculations to figure out how fast you can ride. Rough rule of thumb: a 30watt Halogen will let you ride safely at 15mph. I think the best LED's have lumens about equal to a 20watt Halogen.

Hope this helps and you can ride safely.

derath

Keep in mind that on group rides helmet lights sometimes aren't the best. Especially if you keep forgetting not to look at one of your buddies (and blind them)

HiYoSilver, maybe my eyes are just better than yours, but with my full setup (2x200L on my bars, 15wHalogen helmet) I have hit 40+ mph on a downhill with plenty of light to negotiate.

-D

rm -rf

Those are good points. I'm not going to blast down hills with my setup, it doesn't project far enough to really see way down the hill. I'll have to test the run times of my lights when it's cold, but I probably won't be out much below 35F or so.

During a daytime ride, how far ahead do riders look for debris on the road? Small items like rocks probably are too small to see over 100 feet or so. Farther down the road, riders are looking for big holes, animals and cars, and turns in the road.

I'm thinking that 2-3 seconds is plenty of time to dodge potholes, etc. But not enough time to stop completely. I'll have to try a panic stop today, and see how far it takes to stop and how many seconds.

Night group rides:
My local club night rides try to pick urban streets that don't have too many downhills. The street lights take care of the longer distance seeing--looking for cars, etc. Group rides tend to spread out on downhills, and riders need to look well ahead to judge turns and what the other riders are doing. So lights that are fine on the flats might not be enough on downhills.

One ride I did last winter would typically ride at 18-24 mph in a tight pack, with short sprints up to 30. It was all on flat streets with (mostly) good street lighting. Even though nobody had lights to handle 30 mph, the streetlights took care of the longer distance seeing.

dekindy

The lack of adjustment of the Dinotte helmet mount is about the only disadvantage I see and consider it a minor one. My helmet mount is adjustable. Before I strapped the wire to my helmet, I made sure that I could move it completely up and down without the straps constricting movement. When we stop I flip it up in the air. I can flip it straight down to see the ground immediately below me if I needed to fix a flat or find something on the ground. You cannot do that with a fixed mount. But you could loosen your helmet straps and tilt your helmet back so that the light would shine up and not into other riders' eyes.

dekindy

Fast riders that start riding at night with us have to make an adjustment. We average in the 15-16 mile range when riding at night and stay together. If the group starts spreading out we either slow down or stop and get the group back together. Expectations have to be realistic. Our winter night riding is social and casual. If you want to train at high speeds you need to rethink your lighting needs. You need a Light and Motion, Niterider, Lupine,etc. HID type light or Jet Lite Halogen or an expensive LED that start in the $300 ranger per light if you want to do that kind of riding. A first aid kit would be adviseable also because you will probably need it.

ViperZ

I think you'll do well with the 2x 200L's. Enjoy!

Pick up a Planet Bike Super Flash, or Blinky 7 for the back and you're good to go!

freako

If you look at the pics that DERATH took on page 1 you will notice that the NiteRider 12 watt halogen is brighter then the expensive Dinotte; take that a step futher to a 16 watt halogen and you got even more light. Cygolite makes a 16 watt light called the Night Rover Xtra, and you can get these for under $90. Plus the Cygolite has dual beams thus you can choose between flood or spot or both, the flood beam will run buy itself for as long as 6 hours on a charge, and if one bulb was to burn out on a ride you can still use the other beam. I have this light and it's great.

Also instead of the Dinotte taillight that, as one poster mentioned, that can blind riders behind you, look into the Cateye LD600. The Cateye LD600 is inexpensive yet rugged and water resistant, and if you mount the light vertically it has the most side visibility of any LED tailight on the market whereas the Planetlight SuperFlash is barely visible from the side, and from the rear it's VERY bright and at least equal to the SuperFlash from what I could tell at an LBS that sold both. I also have this light and even run it during the day and people can see it! And it's gentle on batteries.