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  1. #1
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    Am I going to be disappointed in the Dual Cross Li-ion?

    The original version, I mean. I got one on Ebay for $125 new. But now I see all of the threads about upgrading the LED's....and now the new "pro" version that puts out twice(?) the light (not to mention the Tridenx).

    My other light is a halogen, the Marwi Nightpro Torch.....15 watt (I think, or is it only 10?). It's been very dependable and casts a decent beam, but I wanted to upgrade to the LED's and the lithium battery. How do you think the two compare (if not familiar with the Torch, just replace with a 15 watt halogen you do know.....the Torch is kind of a flood/spot compromise, though I'd say more flood than spot).

    Thanks ahead of time.
    Last edited by ccd rider; 11-21-07 at 07:10 PM. Reason: spelling error

  2. #2
    reductio ad absurdum ericy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccd rider View Post
    The original version, I mean. I got one on Ebay for $125 new. But now I see all of the threads about upgrading the LED's....and now the new "pro" version that puts out twice(?) the light (not to mention the Tridenx).

    My other light is a halogen, the Marwi Nightpro Torch.....15 watt (I think, or is it only 10?). It's been very dependable and casts a decent beam, but I wanted to upgrade to the LED's and the lithium battery. How do you think the two compare (if not familiar with the Torch, just replace with a 15 watt halogen you do know.....the Torch is kind of a flood/spot compromise, though I'd say more flood than spot).

    Thanks ahead of time.
    Well, it was only 20$ to upgrade the LEDs on mine. I had the dualcross 200 - not sure, but I *think* it has the same emitters as the non-pro Lion (I recall reading that the heads are all identical - just the battery packs and chargers that are different).

    It was pretty good beforehand, but a little soldering isn't a big deal for me, so I went for it .

  3. #3
    Member Hawseman's Avatar
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    Yeah...

    My newly upgraded DC was a non-pro, Li-ion. Heads are physically the same (not sure about electronics, though). Upgrade it to a Q5 (or R2) Cree and you'll be happy camper.

  4. #4
    reductio ad absurdum ericy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawseman View Post
    Yeah...

    My newly upgraded DC was a non-pro, Li-ion. Heads are physically the same (not sure about electronics, though). Upgrade it to a Q5 (or R2) Cree and you'll be happy camper.
    Now that I think about it, you may be right about the electronics:

    http://www.cygolite.com/4-Support/FA...ery_Questions_

    Q: Can I change from Li-Ion to NiMH batteries on my CygoLite system.

    A: No, due to the voltage differences in Li-Ion batteries and NiMH batteries you cannot switch between the batteries. To prevent this, the plug sizes on the NiMH and Li-Ion batteries and chargers are made with different sizes.

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    Can anyone answer the original question? Assuming the OP does NOT upgrade the LEDs, how is the DC likely to compare to a 15W halogen?

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    The manufacturer's claim is equivalent to 20 watt halogen. And the 200 and 300 are supposed to be as well. The Pro is equivalent to 30 watt.....and the Tridenx is equivalent to HID. I know these are subjective.....and you would expect them to hype their lights up a bit. That's why I wanted a "real life" appraisal.

    That being said, I also recognize the subjectivity of even the anecdotal inputs. And I'm not expecting everyone to see it exactly the same. But often there is a consensus.....and I am curious ahead of time so that I can evaluate the light beyond my own limitations of only having two other lights ever.

    So, a supplemental question to my initial query might be.....how does everyone view the differences between the colors of light? I really like the halogen as far as being easier on the eyes.....but love the brightness and illuminating qualities of the LED's. I've heard the Dual Cross is very, very white. I have a headlamp that has more of bluish tint, so I'm looking forward to seeing that difference as well. Is it the actual lumens output they are comparing (for equivalency) when evaluating the disparities in the wattage of the two types of lights (like 3 watt LED vs. let's say a 12 or 15 watt halogen).....or are there other factors involved (including the "color" differences)?

  7. #7
    Senior Member kleng's Avatar
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    I have both a Dual Cross 300 Ni-Mh and a Dual Cross 300 Li-Ion.

    I think you'll be happy with the output versus a 15watt halogen system it will brighter, visually the spread of light will be wider due to the dual leds. I have ridden with both of these system for a year and find that there is enough light for all metro uses. The Li-ion battery will power both light heads but the ni-mh will not.

    Output wise I, even though their running the the same luxeon stars, that the Ni-mh is actually brighter than the li-ion. I think they have de tuned the Li-ion output to extend the duration as a result of using the smaller battery system.

    If your not a weight weenie, I'd go for the Ni-mh model as is cheaper and in my opinion brighter, straight out of the box.

    Have a look at the thread I started with regards to upgrade the led's stars, for $20 dollars and a bit of soldering you get the power of the "pro" model which equates to about 30w and you still have the original running times.

    Cygolite Dual Cross 300 upgrade finished
    Opinions on my prospective light setup.
    Last edited by kleng; 11-21-07 at 01:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kleng View Post



    If your not a weight weenie, I'd go for the Ni-mh model as is cheaper and in my opinion brighter, straight out of the box.

    Have a look at the thread I started with regards to upgrade the led's stars, for $20 dollars and a bit of soldering you get the power of the "pro" model which equates to about 30w and you still have the original running times.

    Cygolite Dual Cross 300 upgrade finished
    Opinions on my prospective light setup.
    Thanks for this input and the attachments.

    The weight doesn't bother me. What I like is the cold tolerance of the lithium. I commute a lot in winter and the nimh's need some tlc. Besides, I already purchased the Li-ion version.

    Your idea about the upgrade sounds good. But I'm not all that inclined to alter something that expensive....I'd be afraid of damaging something. I'll leave the handiwork to the handy people!

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    Member Hawseman's Avatar
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    Agreed on the Lithium....I'm a cold weather rider as well.

    So you mainly ride on roads? The DualCross would be a pretty good light for commuting. Myself, I ride technical trails, and spill is a little more critical.

    I can't say for sure about the output of the DC as compared to a 15W halogen. What I can tell you is that pure white light is a different animal (especially off-road). I do feel as though the DC was putting out much more light out than my old halogen (10W?), but my perception seemed off. It took me a few rides to get used to it. Incandesent lights have that warm, orangey light, that you become acustomed to.

    Since you already ordered them, I'd be interested to hear your take on the 15W halogen comparison.

  10. #10
    Solo Rider, always DFL
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    The handlebar clamp on my DC 300 is CRAP. I need to wrap a velcro strap around the camming clamp just to keep it closed.

    Once that's taken care of, it's pretty good for my purposes, but for sustained (non stop and go) riding of more than an hour at night I take the L&M ARC HID. I hear the newer LEDs compare to the HIDs, but it was not so competitive a year ago when I bought them.

    I think the 200 and 300 have the same output, but the 300 has the smart charger that switches over to a trickle charge when the battery is full. I'm not sure what other differences there are...
    "Having modest aspirations RULES." --patentcad
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawseman View Post
    Agreed on the Lithium....I'm a cold weather rider as well.

    So you mainly ride on roads? The DualCross would be a pretty good light for commuting. Myself, I ride technical trails, and spill is a little more critical.

    I can't say for sure about the output of the DC as compared to a 15W halogen. What I can tell you is that pure white light is a different animal (especially off-road). I do feel as though the DC was putting out much more light out than my old halogen (10W?), but my perception seemed off. It took me a few rides to get used to it. Incandesent lights have that warm, orangey light, that you become acustomed to.

    Since you already ordered them, I'd be interested to hear your take on the 15W halogen comparison.
    I ride on mainly rural highway roads and concrete bike trails. I also ride on urban streets for a short time during my commute. I ride at night for about 70 minutes at a time in the very early morning hours....and for the last 30 minutes or so in the evening now that the time has changed and days are much shorter. That's the other reason I wanted extended battery time....as well as multiple output settings. The Nightpro halogen and it's nimh water bottle battery barely gets me home....though I do have an 85 lumen LED headlamp as a supplement.

    I will post my comparison when the DC gets here.....probably in this same thread.

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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by ccd rider View Post
    I ride on mainly rural highway roads and concrete bike trails. I also ride on urban streets for a short time during my commute. I ride at night for about 70 minutes at a time in the very early morning hours....and for the last 30 minutes or so in the evening now that the time has changed and days are much shorter. That's the other reason I wanted extended battery time....as well as multiple output settings. The Nightpro halogen and it's nimh water bottle battery barely gets me home....though I do have an 85 lumen LED headlamp as a supplement.

    I will post my comparison when the DC gets here.....probably in this same thread.
    First impressions.....nice! This is quite an upgrade for me. The versatility of this light is more than anything I have ever had. I ran through all of the various settings.....very cool arrangement, albeit quite cumbersome to run through. Of the 4 brightness settings, the second brightest is not significantly dimmer than the highest.....with even longer run times. The light spread seems as advertised.....with a very bright center and perfect compromise between spot and flood. This was only in my garage this evening. I'm going to commute at o' dark 100 tomorrow morning.....so that will be the real test.

    So far, the brightness is substantially more than the 15 watt halogen I have. I'll be curious to see how well it illuminates things in the roadways....esp. on the surfaces themselves. I really did like how the halogen shows definition and is easy on the eyes....but after seeing what this thing will do, I already feel like I've answered the question of my own post. And that would be a profound no!

    I'll have more feedback after the ride(s).

  13. #13
    reductio ad absurdum ericy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccd rider View Post
    First impressions.....nice! This is quite an upgrade for me. The versatility of this light is more than anything I have ever had. I ran through all of the various settings.....very cool arrangement, albeit quite cumbersome to run through. Of the 4 brightness settings, the second brightest is not significantly dimmer than the highest.....with even longer run times.
    Is this out of the box, or did you upgrade the emitters?

    I had mine on earlier tonight. My only beef with the thing is that the mount is a little soft - it keeps slipping down, especially if I hit a bump, and then I have to reach down and pull it up again. I suppose I need to tighten the screw a little more (have already done this twice - I think the foam rubber is getting compressed). Then again, where I aim the light depends a bit on conditions - at twilight, I have the thing on so that others can see me, but gradually as it gets darker the need changes to actually lighting up the road.

    With the upgraded emitters it really does a fine job of lighting up the trail (and then the streets when I leave the trail to come home).

    I saw a deer on the MUP on the way home from work today. It didn't seem to be too bothered by my presence though. Although now that I think about it some, I think it did have that deer in the headlights look .

  14. #14
    Member Hawseman's Avatar
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    Glad to hear it. After I built my homemade triple Seoul headlamp, it seemed underpowered. After the Q5 upgrade, it made a better compliment.

    I agree with your settings assessment. High, Medium and Low would be the most needed...even just High & Low. Not enough noticable difference and awkward button pressing.

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    Second impressions after the road test this morning. Man, this thing is stupid bright compared to what I'm used to!!! I used med-high and it was still more than bright enough. High seemed to reflect back too much into the eye from the surface. I can't imagine needing to upgrade this thing.....but I suppose it's all what you're used to, and what you need it for. It was difficult at first to get used to how white the light is.....the halogen is definitely easier on the eyes. Plus, I liked the extra coverage and the definition of the halogen.

    I so far haven't had the problem with the mounting bracket sliding.....mine seems very solid. But I did tighten the screw until it clamped down as tight as possible without breaking.

    So, here are the pros and cons how I see them:

    Pros:
    - Insanely bright for commuting. I had more cars dimming their high beams than ever before on a single ride.
    - Versatility. The various settings are indeed overkill and cumbersome, but handy nonetheless.
    - Longevity. How can you beat the run times for this thing??? I probably will rarely even use the highest setting, so I'm going to get amazing run times (up to 7 hours) and fewer charges. I could only get an hour and a half out of my halogen with no settings options. And the LED's will not burn out.
    - Peace of mind. Knowing that there is a gauge for the battery time.....and that even on the lowest setting there is useable light for 45 minutes when it gets to the final warning. That will get me home even if I forget to charge it.
    - Cold tolerance. No more worrying about keeping the nimh's warm!
    - I get my bottle holder back! The small and very lightweight li-ion battery straps easily to the handlebar stem.
    - Value. This might be the best value out there lumen for lumen vs. run times. I paid $125 for this brand new and I may not have to buy another light for a long time.

    Cons:
    - Not as good for "seeing" definition and depth of things in the road. It illuminates great, but the halogen is so nice for actually seeing what's there.
    - Spread of the light is better than most LED's with the cross action.....but still does not light up as broad an area as the halogen.

    More later.

  16. #16
    MAK
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    I have the same light and absolutely love it. I bought a Cateye EL 410 on sale to mount on the helmet and I'm a real happy camper. Turn the head slightly and street signs are easier to read and cars seem to react better to the two lights, particularly when the Cateye is on blink mode.

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