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Old 11-22-07, 09:29 PM   #1
yamcha
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Light Measurement

I am very confused about lighting and could use some help. I currently have a 15watt NiteRider Halogen lighting system that runs off of a 6volt battery. I would like to upgrade to something brighter and longer lasting ushc as an LED sytem. Now the thing is I don't understand all this lumens and candle power stuff, there are just too many variables. Can someone tell me how many lumens my current set up is putting out? That would be a great help.
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Old 11-22-07, 10:53 PM   #2
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15w halogen is prob 70-90 lumens
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Old 11-23-07, 01:06 AM   #3
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Where are you getting your numbers? How do you know?
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Old 11-23-07, 06:00 AM   #4
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If that Nightrider uses the MR11 bulbs running on 6V he's probably just about dead on, but I wouldn't know where to get specs on that light either.

Upgrade to an overvolted 20watt MR16 system and you can supposedly get over 1000.
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Old 11-23-07, 06:36 AM   #5
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http://www.galesburgelectriclighting...6V-p-3008.html

6v 5w mr11 150 lumens...just googled for 6v mr11 lumens and that was the first result. A 15w should put out more than a 5w.

My NiteRider 15w halogen definitely puts out more light than my Fenix flashlights, which have lumen claims of 160 and 200.

I saw that you posted this thread in commuting as well, and edzo said the same thing without providing support, so it's probably better just to disregard edzo's statement.
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Old 11-23-07, 11:43 AM   #6
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Where are you getting your numbers? How do you know?
A convenient place to get information on the light output of halogens and what happens if you run them at higher voltage is here. I haven't done measurements (I don't have the equipment) and most of his information is for 12V lamps but 6 V puts out about the same amount of light.

The simplest way to boost your light output is to get a new battery and run the lamp at 7.2V. This will double your light output for the cost of a new battery. If you use these packs with a 15W bulb and get about 1.5 hours run time (this is only an estimate...good for within 10% of the actual run time). They have other higher capacity batteries that will give you a longer run time in the same size battery for about $10 more. You will have to rig a connector and your bulb life will be cut down but I haven't found that to be much of an issue in the 15+ years I've been doing this.

Now if you are willing to do some homebrewing, you can make a light set that will put even HID to shame. An MR16 overvolted to 14.4V will put out over 1500 lumens for pretty cheap. Even a 13W HID doesn't come close to that! I just finished cludging together a system that has 3 lamps and puts out over 4600 lumen for somewhere in the range of $75 without the batteries (I already had them.)
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Old 11-23-07, 03:21 PM   #7
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4600 lumens? Holy crap! Do you have some pictures?
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Old 11-23-07, 10:51 PM   #8
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4600 lumens? Holy crap! Do you have some pictures?
Not yet. I'll try Sunday. It's too cold right now to go stand outside and take pictures
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Old 11-23-07, 10:55 PM   #9
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Please don't forget to do it? How bright is the sun, Like 4800 lumens? hehe
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Old 11-24-07, 08:16 AM   #10
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The simplest way to boost your light output is to get a new battery and run the lamp at 7.2V. This will double your light output for the cost of a new battery.
Has anybody tried a DC-DC Convertor/Regulator like the AnyVolt Micro
to boost voltage? Looks like us dyno hub people could get a pretty easily overvoltage setup for about $25.
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Old 11-24-07, 02:13 PM   #11
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Just a question about the halogen output:

I know that the LEDs basically emit in the visible range, so all (or most) of the lumens are visible light. My understanding of halogens is that they radiate a lot of energy in the infrared range (heat, not light). When you speak of the lumen output of a halogen, is that across the spectrum, or just in the visible range?

I realize that "lumen" may relate only to the visible spectrum- if so, someone will let me know the error of my ways I hope. I'm still learning about this stuff.

I do know that halogens are really cheap compared to other systems, so it seems like just over-volting them to destruction is OK. Just buy another for a couple of bucks and get on with it.

Rick
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Old 11-24-07, 07:26 PM   #12
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Just a question about the halogen output:

I know that the LEDs basically emit in the visible range, so all (or most) of the lumens are visible light. My understanding of halogens is that they radiate a lot of energy in the infrared range (heat, not light). When you speak of the lumen output of a halogen, is that across the spectrum, or just in the visible range?

I realize that "lumen" may relate only to the visible spectrum- if so, someone will let me know the error of my ways I hope. I'm still learning about this stuff.

I do know that halogens are really cheap compared to other systems, so it seems like just over-volting them to destruction is OK. Just buy another for a couple of bucks and get on with it.

Rick
Lumens are a measure of the 'perceived' light, i.e. it's a measurement based on what we see. That's from 380nm (violet) to 780nm (red). The total light output of the lamp is the radiant flux which measures the amount of light that is emitted in the ultraviolet and infrared portions of the spectrum. A lumen from an LED and a lumen from a halogen are the same.

There's another measure called color rendition which is how close the light is to the natural visible spectrum of sunlight. Halogens, as well as most incandescent bulbs, mimic natural sunlight quite well. Gas emission (HID and florescent) and LED light have a narrower spectrum and don't do so well. That's why they tend to be bluish. Florescent tubes can be treated to get a more natural light.
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Old 11-25-07, 09:05 AM   #13
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Quote:
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Just a question about the halogen output:

I know that the LEDs basically emit in the visible range, so all (or most) of the lumens are visible light. My understanding of halogens is that they radiate a lot of energy in the infrared range (heat, not light).
As a previous poster mentioned, lumens are a measure of visible light only. But since I want to confuse you further here's some interesting info. White LEDs actually emit in the ultra-violet spectrum. This UV light isn't visible to the eye, but it's broadcast in to phosporus powder which glows in a variety of colors. The phosphorus poweders are mixed together to produce what we see as a "white" light. The same thing is done with florescent tubes. In a florescent tube mercury gas is ionized and gives off UV light which hits phosphorus powder to produce the white light we see.

With any incandescent light is produced by heating a metal conductor until it glows. This produces a very nice white light but also produces a LOT of heat (infrared). A big chunk of the power put in to the metal element becomes heat so much of the juice in your battery goes towards heating stuff. That's why an LED is more efficient, a lower percent of its power is turned in to heat, more of it goes towards visible light.

Amid all the hub-bub around lumens the REAL important factor is where all those lumens go. A light that makes a lot of lumens but does a poor job focusing them where you need them is not a good light. The only lumens that count are the ones that end up where you want them. So optics are just as important, perhaps moreso, than raw light output.

I really light this site for a good example of optics performance:
http://eddys.com/page.cfm?PageID=493
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Old 11-25-07, 05:09 PM   #14
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So what would be a ballpark figure for the amount of lumens from a car headlight on low beam?
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Old 11-25-07, 05:59 PM   #15
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cyccommute, don't forget to take a picture of your light tonight!
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Old 11-25-07, 07:28 PM   #16
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So what would be a ballpark figure for the amount of lumens from a car headlight on low beam?
Here's a few examples. My 91 Escort uses the 9004, which produces 700 lumens on low beam and 1200 lumens on high beam. I think this is one of the weaker headlight bulbs used.
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Old 11-25-07, 10:21 PM   #17
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Lots of pictures...WARNING

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cyccommute, don't forget to take a picture of your light tonight!
Bar lights

Hampton Roads MR16 track light mounted to an old Vista Light mount



An Optronic driving lamp. Switch is from BatterySpace and all connectors on all lights and batteries are Dean's Ultra connectors. The mount is from BatterySpace as well.



Helmet lamp is the other Optronic lamp with similar wiring to the other lamp



On the bike



And where the light meets the dark



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Old 11-25-07, 11:30 PM   #18
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God that is awesome. That is brighter than a car's lights! Thank you!
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