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  1. #251
    Senior Member bryroth's Avatar
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    You have quoted the OP and awoken me from my long slumber.

    Update: I bought the Dinnotte like 4 years ago and I love it. There is no alternative.

    If you can't afford it, get the planet bike super flash.

    Later!!

  2. #252
    I'm Rad. vXhanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bryroth View Post
    You have quoted the OP and awoken me from my long slumber.

    Update: I bought the Dinnotte like 4 years ago and I love it. There is no alternative.

    If you can't afford it, get the planet bike super flash.

    Later!!
    Have you had any issues with the light in the 4 years you've been using it? Any problems with the batteries, switches, etc.? I'm thinking about just spending the money and getting a Dinotte system vs. spending more money on PBSF or PBSFt.

    V

  3. #253
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    $10.22 UltraFire WF-501B Cree Q5 5-Mode 250-Lumen Red LED Flashlight - 1 x 18650 / carrying strap 15.5cm at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

    bright as the dinotte, buy yourself a 18650 battery set, a charger, and a mount, total will be around $30.

  4. #254
    I'm Rad. vXhanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbubbles View Post
    $10.22 UltraFire WF-501B Cree Q5 5-Mode 250-Lumen Red LED Flashlight - 1 x 18650 / carrying strap 15.5cm at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

    bright as the dinotte, buy yourself a 18650 battery set, a charger, and a mount, total will be around $30.
    That is awesome, thank you!
    Last edited by vXhanz; 03-21-14 at 06:58 PM.

  5. #255
    "LOGIC!" lopek77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bryroth View Post
    You have quoted the OP and awoken me from my long slumber.

    Update: I bought the Dinnotte like 4 years ago and I love it. There is no alternative.

    If you can't afford it, get the planet bike super flash.

    Later!!
    You not fully awake yet. There are much better lights out there than Planet bike super flash, and for similar price
    "The clear problem of the outlawing of insult is that too many things can be interpreted as such. Criticism, ridicule, sarcasm, merely stating an alternative point of view to the orthodoxy, can be interpreted as insult." - Rowan Atkinson
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  6. #256
    Senior Member Dave Cutter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziemas View Post
    Many of us have ridden for years without a DiNotte taillight and are some how still alive......
    I think your point is valid.

    Don't get me wrong.... I use the blinking lights even in daylight if traffic is heavy. I wouldn't even think of cycling without a helmet (the wife would kill me). I wear plenty of reflective crap.... and I practice normal cycling safety.

    But let's be adults about this. I can't recall hearing or reading of even one cycling fatality caused by.... too dim of a bicycle light. Many of us cyclist treat cycling safety equipment..... almost like a superstition.

    Millions and millions........ hundreds of millions of people regularly ride bicycles. Most are too poor for any kind of blinky (or a helmet). Yet for the most part... they do arrive back home... still a live. I am far from being anti-safety products. But good safety practices... never come from a store in plastic package.

  7. #257
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbubbles View Post
    $10.22 UltraFire WF-501B Cree Q5 5-Mode 250-Lumen Red LED Flashlight - 1 x 18650 / carrying strap 15.5cm at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

    bright as the dinotte, buy yourself a 18650 battery set, a charger, and a mount, total will be around $30.
    I have this flashlight without the red filter. It would make a terrible tail light. The beam is very narrow, and the light is not visible from the sides. The battery lasts a very short time. It's nice if you like to throw a long, narrow beam.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
    Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

  8. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    I have this flashlight without the red filter. It would make a terrible tail light. The beam is very narrow, and the light is not visible from the sides. The battery lasts a very short time. It's nice if you like to throw a long, narrow beam.
    I disagree. There's multiple modes. The flashing mode last a few hours.



    The side visibility is way better than dinotte.

  9. #259
    I'm Rad. vXhanz's Avatar
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    Did that light come like that, or did you modify it?

    The stock light you linked to has a red emitter on it already, but it doesn't list that attachment you have on there.

  10. #260
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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  11. #261
    tcs
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    Okay, we're way better off than we were all those decades when we had 0.6W incandescent tail lamps, but I have questions about today's bicycle tail lamps because I don't think the issue has been studied methodically or extensively.

    So here's a summary of the accidents we actually have while cycling.

    The best I've found on 'moth effect', which the author ultimately concludes is different from target fixation - either of which or both might come in to play with motor vehicle traffic overtaking cyclists at night.

    This study of night time accidents and lights is about as good as it gets - yet even their own conclusions are contradictory and you can probably parse out of it any position you want to maintain.
    "When man first set woman on two wheels with a pair of pedals, did he know, I wonder, that he had rent the veil of the harem in twain? A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Typewriter Girl, 1899.

    "Every so often a bird gets up and flies some place it's drawn to. I don't suppose it could tell you why, but it does it anyway." Ian Hibell, 1934-2008

  12. #262
    tcs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
    Most are too poor for any kind of blinky...
    Now that's poor!
    "When man first set woman on two wheels with a pair of pedals, did he know, I wonder, that he had rent the veil of the harem in twain? A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Typewriter Girl, 1899.

    "Every so often a bird gets up and flies some place it's drawn to. I don't suppose it could tell you why, but it does it anyway." Ian Hibell, 1934-2008

  13. #263
    Senior Member Dave Cutter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcs View Post
    Yes it is. About half of the worlds population lives just on the poverty side of being able to afford the luxuries of indoor plumbing, clean water, and refrigeration. Most of the world doesn't have mail delivered to their doorstep ether.

    I have read that maybe half of the aprox. one billion bicycles in use today are push-bikes. Used for carrying loads of food, fuel, water.

    I am a sport/hobbyist cyclist myself. And I truly appreciate my undeserved good fortune.

    Quote Originally Posted by tcs View Post
    .... This study of night time accidents and lights is about as good as it gets - yet even their own conclusions are contradictory and you can probably parse out of it any position you want to maintain.
    I thought the conclusions were pretty straight forward: Only a small number of nighttime accidents can be clearly attributed to the lack of lights: Other major risk factors are driving or riding under the influence of alcohol, high- er driving speeds on empty roads at night and impaired night vision especially in older drivers....

    IMHO: Bicycling while drinking and/or drugging is comparative to drinking and driving. It's not a big killer.... it is by far THE big killer. Cyclist always divert the conversation about cycling deaths to paths, road conditions, separated lanes, reflective clothing... and bicycle lights. When the big killer is and always has been booze and drugs.
    Last edited by Dave Cutter; 03-22-14 at 03:35 PM.

  14. #264
    "LOGIC!" lopek77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcs View Post
    Sorry, but this article starts with a HUGE BS in first sentence... Each and every time I go for a ride, especially in the city, I'm NOT getting struck by a vehicle because of my rear view mirror and eyes wide open. If I didn't pay attention what's going on behind me, it would be my last ride. I add that I use my 1 watt and 0.5 watt rear light every time I ride. There is a saying here that in Michigan, squirrel is more important than cyclist...
    The guy from bicycling magazine /read advertising magazine with cycling topics/ is either very, very lucky, or never rode a bike on a city streets...
    "The clear problem of the outlawing of insult is that too many things can be interpreted as such. Criticism, ridicule, sarcasm, merely stating an alternative point of view to the orthodoxy, can be interpreted as insult." - Rowan Atkinson
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  15. #265
    "LOGIC!" lopek77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcs View Post
    500 millions It's the number of the most popular bicycle model in China...add many, many millions of other bicycles there, another millions of bicycles in many other poor countries around the world...US market is tiny comparing to the rest of the world. Having a bicycle in a third world country is like having Mercedes S class in USA...big deal my friend. Very few people ride for pleasure there...

    On the other hand...many "rich" American road cyclist are idiots for not buying $20 rear light, and even bigger idiots for explaining that the weight is the reason why they dont use rear lights...

    I'm always sorry for families of killed cyclists, but in most cases the reason for accidents is running red light, stop sign and not having rear and/or front light. Suicidal cyclists...
    "The clear problem of the outlawing of insult is that too many things can be interpreted as such. Criticism, ridicule, sarcasm, merely stating an alternative point of view to the orthodoxy, can be interpreted as insult." - Rowan Atkinson
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  16. #266
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbubbles View Post
    I disagree. There's multiple modes. The flashing mode last a few hours.



    The side visibility is way better than dinotte.
    Aha, I hadn't seen it, and I should have before I criticized. That light will serve well as a tail light!
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
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  17. #267
    Dirt Bomb sknhgy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbubbles View Post
    I disagree. There's multiple modes. The flashing mode last a few hours.



    The side visibility is way better than dinotte.
    What's that thingy you got on the end? I need to know because I have a flashlight like that.
    more cops have been killed by donuts than guns in chicago it is a medical fact ask any doctor.

  18. #268
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    That's a diffuser cone, you can buy them or make them. You see these on traffic controllers.

  19. #269
    Senior Member 01 CAt Man Do's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post

    But let's be adults about this. I can't recall hearing or reading of even one cycling fatality caused by.... too dim of a bicycle light. Many of us cyclist treat cycling safety equipment..... almost like a superstition.

    Millions and millions........ hundreds of millions of people regularly ride bicycles. Most are too poor for any kind of blinky (or a helmet). Yet for the most part... they do arrive back home... still a live. I am far from being anti-safety products. But good safety practices... never come from a store in plastic package.
    Illogical train of thought. Whither a bike has a lamp, too dim a lamp or no lamp at all it has nothing to do with "Causing" an accident. It has to do with "Preventing" an accident. As with most preventative measures and/or safety equipment, there are no guarantees that anything you buy or do on a bike to help increase your safety or road presence while riding will make you immune to road side accidents. Most people I think already know this.

    When it comes to bike lights I think the main issue is; "How much attention can a bike light garner"? I'm of the opinion that if a bike light ( or lights ) are bright enough and clearly visible ( to anyone not drugged or not looking straight ahead ) there is a much better chance that the person who saw the light(s) will take measures not to hit the person with the light(s). The better your light strategy..ie..brighter lights, multiple lamps for a larger signature, the better your chances of being seen in low light conditions THUS lowering your chances of being hit my a motorist. I don't need a rocket scientist to tell me that my 200 lumen/blinking seat post lamp coupled with my 70 lumen flasher on my helmet is going to get me seen better than the guy riding wearing dark clothing and using only reflectors on the pedals. Now if the guy with no lights makes it home he lives to see another day. Good for him. That said I'll take my chances using my common sense and he can take his chances with his.

    I have no documented facts or bogus surveys to support my opinions only my own common sense. As such I have more trust in my own common sense that what I read in an idiotic German survey. I already know that in Germany it is illegal to use a flashing front or rear light. I'm told this is because the powers that be there "Believe" this will confuse motorists...which in my opinion is utter lunacy.
    Last edited by 01 CAt Man Do; 03-24-14 at 05:17 AM.

  20. #270
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    Somewhere, there is a point of diminishing returns where brighter does not make us significantly safer. That point may be well after we are reducing safety in other ways, perhaps for others. I agree with the person who said it's not a good idea to gain your safety by reducing someone else's safety.

    There is no level of brightness which guaranties that you will be seen and safe. A sufficiently bright light is one thing you need, but it is not all you need, and I'm not convinced that brighter than sufficiently bright is significantly better a sufficiently bright light, nor is it necessarily better than riding technique, reflectors, choice of route, and so many other things in our control.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
    Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

  21. #271
    Senior Member Dave Cutter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    Illogical train of thought. Whither a bike has a lamp, too dim a lamp or no lamp at all it has nothing to do with "Causing" an accident. It has to do with "Preventing" an accident. .....
    Illogical... no. You can't prevent something from happening... unless you remove the cause.

    You admit the lack of light is not the cause.... so how could removing it (by adding light)... be a preventive? Feelings are good things! And making people feel good with extra precautions isn't a bad thing by any means. Like I said I use blinkys myself. But precautionary behavior.... taken to an extreme.... [IMHO] is when it's called superstition.

    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    I have no documented facts or bogus surveys to support my opinions only my own common sense. As such I have more trust in my own common sense that what I read in an idiotic German survey. I already know that in Germany it is illegal to use a flashing front or rear light. I'm told this is because the powers that be there "Believe" this will confuse motorists...which in my opinion is utter lunacy.
    Police used to refer to "black&white fever". Pretty much like what the Germans what to avoid.... people making (sometimes fatal) driving errors when they become transfixed on (or distracted by) the flashing lights.

    Once again... we don't completely disagree. I use a blinky myself (again). But in the real world of facts and stats.... carrying a rabbits foot might be just about as effective at preventing accidents.

    The number of variables involved in cycling accidents are huge. being seen IS one variable! And I would guess that if a person routinely layered themselves with flashing lights and neon colored clothing with reflective trim.... that might contribute to some extent towards that one little variable. But that's it.... and nothing more. And... if we are wrong and the Germans are correct.... we're fractionally adding to our cycling risk.
    Last edited by Dave Cutter; 03-23-14 at 04:17 PM.

  22. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
    I can't recall hearing or reading of even one cycling fatality caused by.... too dim of a bicycle light.
    one month ago here
    A bicyclist was killed Saturday night after being struck by a car in east Athens, Athens-Clarke County police said ... riding a bike westbound on Winterville Road near Hancock Road at about 7:20 p.m. when he was struck from behind, according to police.

    The motorist, a Spring Valley Road resident, reportedly observed the bicyclist suddenly and then swerved in an unsuccessful attempt to avoid the collision, police said.
    ...
    The motorist was not immediately charged and an investigation continued, police said Sunday morning. Police noted that the bicycle was not equipped with lights or reflectors.
    I don't know whether lights or reflectors would have prevented this death, and I haven't seen any more news about it.

  23. #273
    Senior Member Dave Cutter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athens80 View Post
    .... I don't know whether lights or reflectors would have prevented this death, and I haven't seen any more news about it.
    It certainly reads as though at least the legally required reflectors might have helped. And certainly riding at night would require lights... I would think. I would NOT blame the cyclist. I would think that the 7:20 PM time would be inside the sunset limit that requires a light.

  24. #274
    Senior Member 01 CAt Man Do's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
    Illogical... no. You can't prevent something from happening... unless you remove the cause.
    I couldn't disagree more. Case in point: I'm riding down a road at night without lights on my bike. Suddenly I endo because I've hit a pot hole and flipped my bike. While I can't remove the cause of the accident ( the pot hole ) I can increase my likely hood of "not hitting it " by using a good lamp. With a good lamp I'm not going to drive over a pot hole unless I'm not paying attention to where I'm riding ( which can happen ).

    On the flip side of this point it is much harder to change the actions of another person ( the motorist ). While it is hard to do it is not impossible. Most people behind the wheel don't want to hit someone riding a bike. Sadly though the modern conveniences of life can be a dangerous distraction to operating a motor vehicle. Anything the cyclist can do to attract the motorist's attention sooner ( rather than later ) should be considered.


    Summarizing, while no one can prevent every type of motorist/cyclist related accident you can still use products and tactics that will in the long run, "increase your chances of arriving alive". If this were not true there would be no reason for anyone to use lights on their car or bike.

    Once again, you said, "You can't prevent something from happening...". While somewhat vague this would be true if you had said, "You can't prevent EVERYTHING from happening..." In light of this it should be noted, somethings can be prevented from happening when precautions are taken. Regardless, you can't prevent everything that is bad from happening. Simply not possible. Change what you can to realistically make yourself a safer more visible rider and accept what you can't change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
    ...But in the real world of facts and stats.... carrying a rabbits foot might be just about as effective at preventing accidents.
    Okay Dave, you stick that rabbits foot on your rear seat post and see if that helps you. Good luck with that. Myself, I'll stick with my current set-up and call it a day. As for "real world of facts and stats" I'll use my own reality.
    Last edited by 01 CAt Man Do; 03-24-14 at 01:00 AM.

  25. #275
    Senior Member Dave Cutter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    I couldn't disagree more. Case in point: I'm riding down a road at night without lights on my bike. Suddenly I endo because I've hit a pot hole and flipped my bike. While I can't remove the cause of the accident ( the pot hole ) I can increase my likely hood of "not hitting it " by using a good lamp.
    You make my point. If NOT seeing the pot hole is A cause (in the two-part cause/effect situation you describe)... adding a headlight removes (one part of) the cause (and potentially prevents the accident). If not paying attention to the road is the cause... no light of any brightness would prevent the accident. MOST CERTAINLY... a blinky behind you... would do nothing to prevent your pothole example.

    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    Okay Dave, you stick that rabbits foot on your rear seat post and see if that helps you. Good luck with that. Myself, I'll stick with my current set-up and call it a day. As for "real world of facts and stats" I'll use my own reality.
    I am pretty sure that a rabbits foot attached to the bicycle... ONLY protects the bicycle. For "luck" to work properly the cyclist would want the rabbits foot in a jersey pocket (or on a chain around his/her neck). But once again... in my world... that would just be arbitrary superstitious behavior.

    But please... AGAIN... I use blinkys myself (I am NOT giving you a hard time here). I just don't assign blinkys mystic powers like rabbit feet and other such trinkets.
    Last edited by Dave Cutter; 03-24-14 at 08:02 AM.

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