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-   -   Dinotte Tail Light Alternative (http://www.bikeforums.net/electronics-lighting-gadgets/413833-dinotte-tail-light-alternative.html)

Ziemas 05-12-08 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarracksSi (Post 6682912)
I'm kinda surprised by the implication that a dimmer light would be safer.

On second thought, not "kinda surprised"... more like "stupefied".

Where do you see this implied?

BarracksSi 05-12-08 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziemas (Post 6684260)
Where do you see this implied?

Look for any post that puts down bright lights. "False sense of security", etc.

If bright lights were truly less safe, than all the safety advocates would be pushing the "bike ninja" idea instead.

BarracksSi 05-12-08 10:47 PM

And, honestly, even Dinottes aren't prohibitively expensive. It's like what I said elsewhere about getting a good bike lock -- if it got to the point where I worried about being able to afford something like that, I'd be more worried about being able to buy food.

BarracksSi 05-12-08 10:50 PM

(I keep thinking of stuff after I hit the "post" button)

If someone's stupid enough to completely rely on a light to keep them safe, there isn't ANYTHING that will keep them safe.

That's why the "false sense of security" statement is simple bull****.

Ziemas 05-12-08 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarracksSi (Post 6684271)
Look for any post that puts down bright lights. "False sense of security", etc.

If bright lights were truly less safe, than all the safety advocates would be pushing the "bike ninja" idea instead.

Why don't you calm down and read those posts again; they imply nothing about dimmer lights being safer. What they do say is that just because a light is brighter doesn't mean that it is safer.

One exception would be the 500 lumen tail light; in an urban environment it runs a danger of seriously blinding drivers.

tdister 05-13-08 10:17 AM

The TL-LD1100 is great, I just replaced my last Mars 3.0 with it (Mars was bright, but after breaking/losing my 3rd one I was done with them). I keep a superflash as a backup light.

While the superflash might blind you a little more when it's in your hand, the sheer size of the 1100 helps it to be better in my experience. This goes triple when it's wet out.

Better yet, get one of each and put them at different heights. I have been running just the 1100 in light to moderate traffic, adding the superflash to my backpack when desired.

hammond9705 05-13-08 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziemas (Post 6684311)
Why don't you calm down and read those posts again; they imply nothing about dimmer lights being safer. What they do say is that just because a light is brighter doesn't mean that it is safer.

One exception would be the 500 lumen tail light; in an urban environment it runs a danger of seriously blinding drivers.

+1 I'm not sure that a Dinotte is any safer then 2 PB SF. In fact, having 2 PB SF is nice in that you still have a light in case of a failure of one. I would argue that you are better off spending the money you save on the taillight on a better headlight.

BarracksSi 05-13-08 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammond9705 (Post 6687951)
In fact, having 2 PB SF is nice in that you still have a light in case of a failure of one.

I still have a PBSF on the seatstay below the Dinotte.

Ziemas 05-13-08 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarracksSi (Post 6688096)
I still have a PBSF on the seatstay below the Dinotte.

I guess you belong to the 'more is always better' camp. Clearly we will never agree.

BarracksSi 05-13-08 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziemas (Post 6690717)
I guess you belong to the 'more is always better' camp. Clearly we will never agree.

Ah, so you really do think that less is better.

No, we'll never agree. I think you're being stupid.

Ziemas 05-13-08 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarracksSi (Post 6690890)
Ah, so you really do think that less is better.

No, we'll never agree. I think you're being stupid.

Wow, do you really need to be personally insulting when talking about bicycle lights?

You clearly don't want any kind of constructive dialog as you repeatedly and intentionally misstate what I write. Enjoy all your lights and your smug sense of thinking that your are riding the only right way.....

mrbubbles 05-14-08 12:31 AM

Dinotte is an overkill. PBSF is adequate. PBSF can be seen over 500m, that's plenty enough time for a driver to react. If your rear light is getting the attention of cops, it's an overkill, I had that happen to me with my DIY that's half of what Dinotte is.

More light isn't better. It's the same dumbass argument as "Is 10 speed enough? Should we go 11 speed?."

BarracksSi 05-14-08 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziemas (Post 6691039)
Wow, do you really need to be personally insulting when talking about bicycle lights?

Might as well, since it's just as idiotic as saying "less is more".

slvoid 05-14-08 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarracksSi (Post 6691376)
Might as well, since it's just as idiotic as saying "less is more".

I believe he's true. At some point, as long as your rear light is reasonably bright enough that the driver can see you from say, 500-1000ft back, you're fine. Is there any reason why a driver needs to see you from 20,000ft back?

I'm gonna pull off a wildassed example of "less is more". I did an investigation for a steel manufacturer. It turned out, they were copying some design properties from another manufacturer. The 2 of them kept reverse engineering each other's products. As one company adjusted their formulation of carbon to get more carbides into their steel, so did the other. One day I got this sample that showed ridiculous amounts of carbides under the electron microscope and it performed really poorly in the notch impact testing. What happened was that they kept borrowing each other's "more is better" mentality and dumping way too much carbide in it. Eventually, it brought the toughness of the steel way down in the saw blade and the thing kept breaking its tips off.

Just saying, the goal is to be visible at a reasonable angle at a reasonable distance from the driver. Not be visible within the next 10 miles of air space and land 747's along our route.

10 Wheels 05-14-08 06:49 AM

I ride the shoulder on four highways where the posted speed is 55 mph.
The Dinotte is not overkill on these highways.

supcom 05-14-08 07:15 AM

Anyone ride in a group with someone having a high intensity tail light aimed slightly upward? It's not a fun experience. Try following one of these for a few hours on a brevet and you'll agree that more is not always better. Of course, if you only ride alone at night, or just don't care about the others in your group...

BarracksSi 05-14-08 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slvoid (Post 6691548)
I believe he's true. At some point, as long as your rear light is reasonably bright enough that the driver can see you from say, 500-1000ft back, you're fine. Is there any reason why a driver needs to see you from 20,000ft back?

I'm gonna pull off a wildassed example of "less is more".

That example has no application here. I can think of many examples of "less is more" as a good thing, but this isn't one of them.

Anyway, just as a greater distance helps (cars close the gap in a remarkably short time, if you remember), so does getting noticed among the dozens of other bright lights on a busy street. Car taillights, as long as they're not broken, are always brighter than most bicycle blinkies. If you want to compete with those, and be noticed because you're unusual and more likely to be overlooked, you're going to need something at least as bright. As neat as the Superflash is, it's still not enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by supcom (Post 6691808)
Anyone ride in a group with someone having a high intensity tail light aimed slightly upward? It's not a fun experience. Try following one of these for a few hours on a brevet and you'll agree that more is not always better. Of course, if you only ride alone at night, or just don't care about the others in your group...

I know, and that's why I nudge it downward & switch it to its low setting when I know someone's behind me. That's the nice thing about the O-ring attachment -- it's secure enough to stay put, but not locked into place so much that you can't adjust it on the fly.

slvoid 05-14-08 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarracksSi (Post 6695705)
That example has no application here. I can think of many examples of "less is more" as a good thing, but this isn't one of them.

Anyway, just as a greater distance helps (cars close the gap in a remarkably short time, if you remember), so does getting noticed among the dozens of other bright lights on a busy street. Car taillights, as long as they're not broken, are always brighter than most bicycle blinkies. If you want to compete with those, and be noticed because you're unusual and more likely to be overlooked, you're going to need something at least as bright. As neat as the Superflash is, it's still not enough.

For now, though I'm pretty sure there's some idiot here who still thinks that it'll be a good idea when they strap two or three 10+ watt red LED's, which is like, having a 150 watt bulb in your rear tail light...

mrbubbles 05-14-08 08:46 PM

Dinotte diehards just can't be reasoned with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slvoid (Post 6695794)
For now, though I'm pretty sure there's some idiot here who still thinks that it'll be a good idea when they strap two or three 10+ watt red LED's, which is like, having a 150 watt bulb in your rear tail light...

Dinotte already came out with something like that. For less than $50, I can make a taillight equivalent to three Dinotte 140L, doesn't mean I should.

mrbubbles 05-14-08 08:58 PM

This is futile, but I'll argue anyways.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarracksSi (Post 6695705)
Car taillights, as long as they're not broken, are always brighter than most bicycle blinkies.

Depends on the blinkie. PBSF is bright as most cars's taillight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarracksSi (Post 6695705)
If you want to compete with those, and be noticed because you're unusual and more likely to be overlooked, you're going to need something at least as bright. As neat as the Superflash is, it's still not enough.

One Superflash is adequate, two is better. A Dinotte taillight is stupid. You are pretty much saying "You're going to get hit by a car if you don't have a Dinotte." I wonder how all those bicycle commuters survived at night before Dinotte came into market. BTW, the Dinotte taillight is illegal to operate in Germany and Netherlands, does that say anything to you?

BarracksSi 05-14-08 09:04 PM

I give up. I really do. Too many of you have forgotten what the world is like outside your own two wheels.

mrbubbles 05-14-08 09:19 PM

There's nothing wrong with having a really bright taillight, even a 4x equivalent of Dinotte 140R, for fun. Just don't go preaching to everyone that Dinotte is the **** (pretty much every Dinotte fanboys are doing this, you people even downplay the sihtty mounting system on the 140R).
While Dinotte do seem to make great products, they are hardly ahead of the competition.

Plenty of people survived commuting at night for years without the need of Dinotte. Not everyone is going out there to buy a Superflash either (most can't even fathom of spending $15CDN (Price of PBSF at MEC) on a taillight).

hopperja 05-14-08 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 Wheels (Post 6691706)
I ride the shoulder on four highways where the posted speed is 55 mph.
The Dinotte is not overkill on these highways.

I too do about half of my riding commuting along a state highway with posted speed limits ranging from 35 to 55 mph, the majority of which is 55 mph. I wear the best reflective vest money can buy (Amphipod), use the best tail light (DiNotte), have reflector tape between every spoke, two reflectors on each wheel, and reflector tape on my fenders. On the front I use the DiNotte on the bars, and a Fenix L2D Premium Q5 on the helmet, as well as I have and frequently use an Airzound horn. I am very concerned about conspicuity, and I happen to have a budget where I can afford what I have.

55 mph = approx. 81 feet per second. The farther away they can see me, the better for me.

The PBSF is a great tail light. If I had a very limited budget, that's what I'd get. Also, if I were touring I'd probably use a SF because the batteries last significantly longer. However, I picked up my DiNotte for $100 on sale, and I use it for commuting, so battery life is insignificant. For what I use it for, it is worth every penny!

slvoid 05-14-08 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarracksSi (Post 6696659)
I give up. I really do. Too many of you have forgotten what the world is like outside your own two wheels.

We know all too well...

Nachoman 05-14-08 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbubbles (Post 6696753)
There's nothing wrong with having a really bright taillight, even a 4x equivalent of Dinotte 140R, for fun. Just don't go preaching to everyone that Dinotte is the **** (pretty much every Dinotte fanboys are doing this, you people even downplay the sihtty mounting system on the 140R).
While Dinotte do seem to make great products, they are hardly ahead of the competition.

Plenty of people survived commuting at night for years without the need of Dinotte. Not everyone is going out there to buy a Superflash either
(most can't even fathom of spending $15CDN (Price of PBSF at MEC) on a taillight).

Incorrect.


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