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Old 05-14-08, 11:08 PM   #51
stevo9er
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Incorrect.
Why? Have you seen the amount of bikers out at night with no lights?
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Old 05-15-08, 01:24 AM   #52
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Why? Have you seen the amount of bikers out at night with no lights?
How do you see them if they have no lights?
And why are you posting in this thread without a dorky avatar????
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Old 05-15-08, 06:37 AM   #53
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"Plenty of people survived commuting at night for years without the need of Dinotte. Not everyone is going out there to buy a Superflash either (most can't even fathom of spending $15CDN (Price of PBSF at MEC) on a taillight)."
Use it in The Day time on highway riding.
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Old 05-15-08, 06:59 AM   #54
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Ok, I've cleaned up a bit in here.
Lets just all take a deep breath and stop the personal attacks.

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Old 05-15-08, 07:21 AM   #55
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So to answer my original question, it sounds like the Planet Bike Super Flash is a decent alternative to the DiNotte, although it's not as bright.
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Old 05-15-08, 09:07 AM   #56
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"A Dinotte taillight is stupid" I don't agree. Three people have lost there lives on the highways I ride on in the Past Two Weeks. I need all the safety help I can get for highway riding.
I now ride 300 miles per week.
Mrbubbles should offer to make me a Bright Head Light Tail light System.
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Old 05-15-08, 09:07 AM   #57
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Why? Have you seen the amount of bikers out at night with no lights?
I was simply responding to the stated proposition that most people "can't even fathom spending $15 on a taillight". I disagree with that statement and thus do not feel that it was "correct".
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Old 05-15-08, 09:33 AM   #58
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"A Dinotte taillight is stupid" I don't agree. Three people have lost there lives on the highways I ride on in the Past Two Weeks. I need all the safety help I can get for highway riding.
I now ride 300 miles per week.
Mrbubbles should offer to make me a Bright Head Light Tail light System.
Were they using taillights?
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Old 05-15-08, 09:41 AM   #59
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"Were they using taillights? " Two were broadsided by a pick up truck at red light. Third t-boned a car that pulled out right in front of her.
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Old 05-15-08, 10:16 AM   #60
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"Were they using taillights? " Two were broadsided by a pick up truck at red light. Third t-boned a car that pulled out right in front of her.
Doesn't sound like a super bright tail light would have made a difference.
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Old 05-15-08, 10:38 AM   #61
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I was simply responding to the stated proposition that most people "can't even fathom spending $15 on a taillight". I disagree with that statement and thus do not feel that it was "correct".
Those who are not willing to spend $15 on a taillight are the same people not willing to spend more than $200 on a bike (and they'll think one bike is enough), and there are a lot of people with that mindset out there. Not everyone is a cycling enthusiast.
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Old 05-15-08, 10:45 AM   #62
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"A Dinotte taillight is stupid" I don't agree.
It's my opinion, I don't care if you disagree.

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Originally Posted by 10 Wheels View Post
Three people have lost there lives on the highways I ride on in the Past Two Weeks. I need all the safety help I can get for highway riding.
I now ride 300 miles per week.
I assume all of those miles are at night.

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Mrbubbles should offer to make me a Bright Head Light Tail light System.
I build lights for fun, mind you, I have more lights than I really need. As for the offer, I'd rather you go spend the money on a commercial light instead.
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Old 05-15-08, 10:46 AM   #63
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"Were they using taillights? " Two were broadsided by a pick up truck at red light. Third t-boned a car that pulled out right in front of her.
How exactly is a super bright taillight going to help them? In this case, a headlight on the helmet aiming at the driver would be far more useful. A Fenix would be a much better investment than a Dinotte.
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Old 05-15-08, 11:28 AM   #64
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Those who are not willing to spend $15 on a taillight are the same people not willing to spend more than $200 on a bike (and they'll think one bike is enough), and there are a lot of people with that mindset out there. Not everyone is a cycling enthusiast.
You're probably right. I was really thinking in terms of cycling enthusiasts, like you and me. If we start including the general population, including even those who don't cycle, then I would have to change my "incorrect" to "correct".
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Old 05-27-08, 07:51 PM   #65
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Hi,

Basic question, which I sort of already asked on the Advocacy and Safety forum: do you guys recommend running the Dinotte taillight for daytime riding? I actually don't ride at night much, and don't let my son ride at night at all, but on those long windy daytime roads I can imagine that a strong slowly blinking red light might really increase the chance of being noticed. Is that the point, or is this mostly about riding at night?
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Old 05-27-08, 09:59 PM   #66
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Hi,

Basic question, which I sort of already asked on the Advocacy and Safety forum: do you guys recommend running the Dinotte taillight for daytime riding? I actually don't ride at night much, and don't let my son ride at night at all, but on those long windy daytime roads I can imagine that a strong slowly blinking red light might really increase the chance of being noticed. Is that the point, or is this mostly about riding at night?
I use a Cateye TL-1100 during the day, especially during rush hour, and notice a difference in passing distance from cars when using it.
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Old 05-28-08, 03:21 AM   #67
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I've ordered the Dinotte. I really wanted the front light, and when it was on sale, I just thought I'd snap up both. That said, I've run for a long time with two blinkies (one on the seatpost, one on my helmet) that are nowhere near as bright as a Superflash, and that's been fine. I really only got the Dinotte taillight to see just how bright it really is!

There is no question in my mind, however, that bright lights in the wrong hands can be a bad thing. I've almost been sent into fastmoving traffic when approached by a guy with an obnoxiously bright helmet light on the cycle path. He looked right at me, and nearly blinded me - I certainly couldn't tell where the kerb was. The brighter a light is, the more care you have to take that it doesn't become a liability. Those who say "I don't care, as long as it keeps me safe" should consider what an oncoming car will do if it can see nothing but your lights. Think how difficult it is to steer safely in your car when an oncoming car doesn't dip its beams. I've yet to experience this issue with a taillight, but with headlights, it's absolutely a risk.
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Old 05-28-08, 04:36 AM   #68
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Hi,

Basic question, which I sort of already asked on the Advocacy and Safety forum: do you guys recommend running the Dinotte taillight for daytime riding? I actually don't ride at night much, and don't let my son ride at night at all, but on those long windy daytime roads I can imagine that a strong slowly blinking red light might really increase the chance of being noticed. Is that the point, or is this mostly about riding at night?
On WI rural roads I keep mine on in the strobe mode: Dim light on all the time, followed by five strobe flashes. I feel this helps drivers become aware of me earlier and I also feel that they give me lots of room when passing. This becomes especially critical at dusk.

I also have my front light (600L) in the same mode. This helps the cars that are passing cars coming toward you to see you before they start the pass.
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Old 05-28-08, 09:58 AM   #69
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In my State it's the law for all motorcycles to have their headlights
and taillights on all the time. I still get motorists who tell me I have my
headlights on.
I'd figure I might as well apply this to my bicycle riding and add in some reflective tape.
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Old 05-28-08, 12:46 PM   #70
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If you want something in the brightness range of these other lights but at a fraction of the price look into the strobes at www.allelectronics.com . My equivalent strobe came from Radio Shack, cost $12.00, runs on from 6 to 15+ volts, and has lasted 20 years. I put mine on the top of the rear rack and hook it into the 12 volt headlight supply. A couple of zip ties and a 9 volt battery could put one on my helmet. Like the other lights it hurts to look closely at it and it flashes in a 360 degree circle.
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Old 05-28-08, 06:06 PM   #71
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How do you figure? The EQUIVALENT of what he is saying is that there are helmets out there that are not as expensive as other helmets that do the job just fine. It's not a silly argument at all. We all put value judgements on EVERYTHING we choose in life. There are risks.....and there are calculated risks. Learn the distinction. If money was no object then we'd ALL have anything out there that is the ABSOLUTE best for our health/life. Some of us don't make enough money to justify spending that kind of cash on a light. And for every point you make for its brightness, it is still no GUARANTEE that you will not die or be injured riding a bike. I think riding smart and defensively (proactively) will take you a lot further than relying....perhaps in a FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY.....on an extremely bright light to save your life.
Well...a better analogy would be to compare a cheap helmet that provides good protection vs a really expensive helmet that povides outstanding protection. How much is that extra protection worth to you? Some would prefer not to engage in cost-benefit analysis with their lives, but to each his/her own.
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Old 05-28-08, 07:28 PM   #72
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Well...a better analogy would be to compare a cheap helmet that provides good protection vs a really expensive helmet that povides outstanding protection. How much is that extra protection worth to you? Some would prefer not to engage in cost-benefit analysis with their lives, but to each his/her own.
I don't think that's a better analogy since many of the cheaper helmets are actually better at protecting. Check the research on that. Often the more expensive helmets are designed for comfort and lightness.....at the expense of some degree of protection. Not saying they won't work well.....that's the whole point. Money is not always a determining factor in safety, spending more or less on a product.

My overriding point is I think there is a saturation point for different people. Otherwise where would you stop? Something could always come along that costs more that may add safety at those margins defined for that part of being safe (visibility only being one of those). I also think cost is a factor when you don't have a lot of money to begin with. One of my main motivating factors for riding (among many) is to save money. I'm not going to spend that kind of money for a light when a cheaper light does the job just as well. It's not quantifiable. You have no empirical data to back up your premise of a more expensive light keeping you safer because there are far too many variables in the course of a bike ride (like your personal riding behavior and defensive skills, traffic congestion, speeds of both vehicles.....and just plain random chance!). My guess is that no lighting vs. a Dinotte could very easily be a factor in your safety, but I'm also guessing the gap would be much shorter (or perhaps equal) using a very good light like a Superflash (who knows, that pattern of flash might be more attention getting than your blinder of a Dinotte....right?).

Even if it was quantifiable, I would still do a cost-benefit analysis based on not only that data, but on my own personal experiences. Or even the anecdotal accounts from others who make good points, not necessarily what is clinically researched.
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Old 05-28-08, 10:55 PM   #73
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I don't know if the Dinotte is overkill, but if you care a lot about side visibility, consider the Planet Bike Blinky 7. Not as bright as the Superflash, Cateye TL-LD1100, or Dinotte, but it offers excellent side visibility (TL-LD1100 does too).

Honestly, taillights have become dramatically brighter over the years. It's far more important to have at least one that works than to worry about which one to get.
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Old 05-29-08, 12:00 PM   #74
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I don't think that's a better analogy since many of the cheaper helmets are actually better at protecting. Check the research on that. Often the more expensive helmets are designed for comfort and lightness.....at the expense of some degree of protection.
In the example you mentioned, the extra money is going to things other than protection--comfort, lighter weight, etc. Again, it's not the best analogy because the extra cost of the Dinotte is clearly NOT going to things other than safety. Is the Dinotte smaller? Is it more lightweight? Does it have better runtime? No, because all of the extra cost went solely into increasing the output of the light, which is universally accepted to correlate with safety on the road, and I think is something even you could agree with (otherwise why buy a SF when there are $5 blinkies out there that do pretty well but not as bright?).
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My overriding point is I think there is a saturation point for different people. Otherwise where would you stop?
I think most people who have used the Dinotte agree that it's bright enough to compete with car taillights and thus will not go further in terms of output. So to answer the question, for the current crop of lights, this is most likely where it stops.

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Old 05-29-08, 12:45 PM   #75
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In the example you mentioned, the extra money is going to things other than protection--comfort, lighter weight, etc. Again, it's not the best analogy because the extra cost of the Dinotte is clearly NOT going to things other than safety. Is the Dinotte smaller? Is it more lightweight? Does it have better runtime? No, because all of the extra cost went solely into increasing the output of the light, which is universally accepted to correlate with safety on the road, and I think is something even you could agree with (otherwise why buy a SF when there are $5 blinkies out there that do pretty well but not as bright?).

You buy the Superflash or equivalent because it is a nice balance of effectiveness and value. A Superflash is about 4 times the cost of a 5 dollar blinkie......a Dinotte is several times more than that. The argument is that the Superflash does the job well for me for that price.....there's ostensibly no reason to buy a Dinotte.


I think most people who have used the Dinotte agree that it's bright enough to compete with car taillights and thus will not go further in terms of output. So to answer the question, for the current crop of lights, this is most likely where it stops.
So you admit there is a stopping point? Good (though "most likely" sounds like a qualifier to me). So we just have a fundamental difference of opinion in where that point is. I say economics is an excellent barrier for RELATIVE degrees of safety. And I stand by my argument that the lack of clearly defined quantitative evidence that "brightest" is necessarily better than "brighter" makes the whole discussion quite subjective.

I think there are plenty of things to place value on. I value my sanity over some quest to make myself the absolute safest I can be. In particular when there will always be other things that enter into the safety equation......and often times those are things where monetary values do not matter. So....I'm not saying you're wrong to spend whatever you want to spend to make yourself feel safer. You just haven't convinced me that it's worth THAT much more. And don't try to argue that Dinotte, in magnanimous fashion, put all the "extra cost" into making the light brighter. Really? That much more money? I think they are banking on the fact that there will always be that crop of riders out there who will insist on buying the best (or at least the perceived best) regardless. I don't have a problem with that....I like free markets. But they haven't sucked me in yet....and....it seems....there are a WHOLE BUNCH of Superflash (or equivalent) buyers out there who agree with me. So if I don't die from an accident in the coming years, can I say "Ha!.....I outfoxed the prevailing view?" Or will you just insist that I was just lucky I wasn't hit by someone and that other factors played no role? And if you hear of someone who gets hit by a car from behind with Dinotte ablaze, will you simply scoff at the whole notion of it being that someone STILL didn't see them (for countless other reasons) and that it was a fluke....an isolated incident....and that the Dinotte is still worth every penny?

Calculated means taking into account all issues at your disposal and making a judgment about their relative safety......with some inherent amount of risk always present. I've made my judgment....just like many other judgments from day to day in this scary world we live. I feel very comfortable with my decision.....I guess I just like to argue.

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