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Old 10-26-06, 09:15 AM   #1326
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Originally Posted by diff_lock2
I found a 12v MR16 20 led light, 1.8w... for i think 9-12$...
I was thinking tail light, just gota figur how to get it red...
Buy one with red LED's. It's much more efficient. Red LED's only produce red light, so all of the energy goes to producing light. If you put a red lens in front of a white light, it filters out everything but the red portion of the white light. All of the energy used to produce the non-red portion is wasted. This is particularly problematic with white LED's, which produce relatively little red light -- their light is noticeably bluer and whiter than incandescant.

Here's a link to a red LED MR16 for less than $8: http://store.peclamp.com/led001.html
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Old 10-26-06, 09:43 AM   #1327
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Originally Posted by Map tester
I just got a MR16 12 Volt Super High Powered 3 Watt Luxeon LED ($15.99) from Autolumination.com. I just gave it a quick test last night and it was impressive. The center spot is not quite as bright as my 20 watt halogen, but the light-bleed to the side is brighter and more even. I think this might do the job for a in-town headlight. I'll try to get it installed tonight and get a report this weekend--our forecast for tomorrow is for ~2 inches of rain.
Do you by any chance know if either of the autoumination MR16 3W Luxeon LED bulbs (normal and wide angle) will fit into the Optronics driving headlights housing (like, QH-8CC or something)?
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Old 10-26-06, 09:45 AM   #1328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Map tester
I just got a MR16 12 Volt Super High Powered 3 Watt Luxeon LED ($15.99) from Autolumination.com. I just gave it a quick test last night and it was impressive. The center spot is not quite as bright as my 20 watt halogen, but the light-bleed to the side is brighter and more even. I think this might do the job for a in-town headlight. I'll try to get it installed tonight and get a report this weekend--our forecast for tomorrow is for ~2 inches of rain.
I recently bought a 21-led MR-16 bulb on Ebay for 8.49 including shipping, and I have to agree with your general assessment. It's a very good "to-be-seen" light, visible and prominent from quite a distance, but it doesn't do much to illuminate the path in front of me. As a test this week, I've replaced my old setup of dual 10w halogens with one 20w halogen and the LED. I figure it's about the same power consumption and a lot more light.

It does suffer from the same misleading advertising that haunts almost all LED bulbs.
Quote:
Light output: 38 Lumens (about 10 to 15 watt of a halogen)
A 10 watt halogen produces somewhere between 120 and 400 lumens, depending on the manufacturer. So it's not even close. Interestingly, the lumens per watt are about the same with the LED and the halogen; the quality of the light differs.

My feeling is that using halogen and LED's together gives the best of both worlds.
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Old 10-26-06, 10:44 AM   #1329
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Hey folks: This is the best thread on BF.net My Question for the masses:
What happens to an SLA if it stays out overnight during winter? I have to leave a bike at the train station everyday and hope to charge it when I get to work in the morning. After charge I will ride to the train(30min), park it in a bike box, ride to work (30min) in the AM. The SLA is 12V 7amphr, currently lights a 50W H3 halogen which gets about 1.25 hrs burn time. Any guesses if I will be able to make the 2 30min commutes? I will change batteries at work with a completley charged SLA each day. On Monday the battery will have been left over the weekend.
Thanks all. Charlie
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Old 10-26-06, 11:00 AM   #1330
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You may see a reduced run time (lower amp-hours), because the cells are cold. I'd also switch that 50W bulb for a 35W high-efficiency bulb.
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Old 10-26-06, 11:14 AM   #1331
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Originally Posted by jeff-o
You may see a reduced run time (lower amp-hours), because the cells are cold. I'd also switch that 50W bulb for a 35W high-efficiency bulb.
Thanks. I will but have to make the holder. My current light is sealed and the wrong shape. I have scheduled time this weekend to make a few as I have 2 bikes to outfit.
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Old 10-26-06, 12:21 PM   #1332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeezyDeezy
Do you by any chance know if either of the autoumination MR16 3W Luxeon LED bulbs (normal and wide angle) will fit into the Optronics driving headlights housing (like, QH-8CC or something)?
I sure hope so, because that is what I have. I'll report back after I get it in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by balto charlie
What happens to an SLA if it stays out overnight during winter?
If it is fully charged it shouldn't make too much of a difference. I park my bikes outside on a carport and haven't noticed a difference (lowest temp around 18 degree F.). I agree that you should get a lower-watt light. I used a 7Ahr SLA two years ago with a 25 watt sealed beam LV505 (Home Depot) and got way over two hours run time.
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Old 10-26-06, 01:38 PM   #1333
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Map_Tester, I could be wrong, but I think I remember someone in one of these threads reporting that those LED MR16s won't properly fit in the Optronics housing, you might want to look into that, but I guess since they're on the way already you can probably find some solution that will work.

Last edited by NeezyDeezy; 10-26-06 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 10-26-06, 01:43 PM   #1334
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hey, im wondering about LEDs and resistors. I have 2 volt LEDs and am going to run them in groups of 6 for 12 volts, but I am concerned about the upper end of the voltage spectrum for my batteries. 12 volt sealed lead acid battery can have up to what starting voltage? just wondering to know if I will need resistors to keep the life of my leds long, or at all.
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Old 10-26-06, 08:49 PM   #1335
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http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/r...DIY_Lights.htm


http://www.bike-recumbent.com/headlight.shtml


http://www.instructables.com/id/E3BGQT6Y7PEP286N6P/


I'm fed up with looking for a light that is good and sub 50 dollars - probably b/c there aren't any.

So I'm going to try and make my own in the next few weeks with a 20 or 35 watt MR15 halogen from http://www.peclamp.com/buymr16color.html

and I'm going to try and get a cool look with some baked bean cans as housing

Next - off to a Batteries Plus store to find a battery! woot!
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Old 10-27-06, 06:16 AM   #1336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adiankur
hey, im wondering about LEDs and resistors. I have 2 volt LEDs and am going to run them in groups of 6 for 12 volts, but I am concerned about the upper end of the voltage spectrum for my batteries. 12 volt sealed lead acid battery can have up to what starting voltage? just wondering to know if I will need resistors to keep the life of my leds long, or at all.
Up to 13.5-14V.
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Old 10-27-06, 06:18 AM   #1337
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Originally Posted by kill.cactus
and I'm going to try and get a cool look with some baked bean cans as housing
I think you should try to preserve the tin-can look by carefully removing the wrapper, then re-gluing it with strong glue. Then coat it with several layers of laquer to keep it looking good, and to prevent the can from rusting.

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Old 10-27-06, 07:38 AM   #1338
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Originally Posted by NeezyDeezy
Map_Tester, I could be wrong, but I think I remember someone in one of these threads reporting that those LED MR16s won't properly fit in the Optronics housing, you might want to look into that, but I guess since they're on the way already you can probably find some solution that will work.
Well NeezyDeezy, you were right about the size. I was able to fit it into the Optronic housing by drilling a small hole through the small overlap between the front and back of the housing. The LED light does not throw as strong a beam as the halogen, but works great as a to-be-seen light. I think I can now experiment with smaller/lighter batteries. Also, you can see how I mount the light by using a Minoura Bottle Cage Holder, and sawing off the 'wings' that the water bottle screws into.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg compare_mr16_size.jpg (28.2 KB, 49 views)
File Type: jpg kluge_housing.jpg (38.0 KB, 77 views)
File Type: jpg cockpit.jpg (53.5 KB, 127 views)
File Type: gif BH-95.gif (56.5 KB, 32 views)
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Old 10-27-06, 08:24 AM   #1339
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I moved my batteries from the rear rack to one of the water bottle cages. Having the batteries mounted on the rack made the bike "back-heavy" and ackward when carrying it up and down the stairs at work.
For now I have the batteries secured in a tennis ball can in the bottle cage. No pictures yet. The tennis ball can is the same diameter as a water bottle and is waterproof.



Does anyone know of a "straight" (no narrow neck) water bottle or similar waterproof container that I could use instead of the tennis ball can?
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Old 10-27-06, 09:12 AM   #1340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeezyDeezy
Map_Tester, I could be wrong, but I think I remember someone in one of these threads reporting that those LED MR16s won't properly fit in the Optronics housing, you might want to look into that, but I guess since they're on the way already you can probably find some solution that will work.
I'm running a MR16 LED in the optronics housing. The crucial dimension is the depth of the bulb, the connector is right up against the back of the housing. It looks like Map Tester's bulb is a little deeper than normal. If the bulb protrudes in the front it's not a problem as the housing is open on the front.
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Old 10-27-06, 10:02 AM   #1341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Map tester
Well NeezyDeezy, you were right about the size. I was able to fit it into the Optronic housing by drilling a small hole through the small overlap between the front and back of the housing. The LED light does not throw as strong a beam as the halogen, but works great as a to-be-seen light. I think I can now experiment with smaller/lighter batteries. Also, you can see how I mount the light by using a Minoura Bottle Cage Holder, and sawing off the 'wings' that the water bottle screws into.
shoot- i'm waiting on a 3X3W cree Led mr16, and was planning on running it in the optronics housing.

The problem is that the bulb is too long, and thus not enough overlap for the threads on the faceplate?
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Old 10-27-06, 10:07 AM   #1342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adiankur
hey, im wondering about LEDs and resistors. I have 2 volt LEDs and am going to run them in groups of 6 for 12 volts, but I am concerned about the upper end of the voltage spectrum for my batteries. 12 volt sealed lead acid battery can have up to what starting voltage? just wondering to know if I will need resistors to keep the life of my leds long, or at all.
LED's are funny creatures. They don't operate as a fixed resistance the way that light bulbs do, they're more like on-off switches. The voltage rating on a LED is the "forward voltage." If the voltage applied is greater than the forward voltage, the LED turns on. If the LED is on in a circuit with no resistance, you have a short circuit, and something will burn up.

What you need to include is a "current-limiting" resistor, which goes in series with the LED to limit current in the circuit. To size the resistor, you need to know three things: the forward voltage of the LED, the maximum supply voltage, and the maximum current the LED can take. As an example, assume you have a 12 volt nominal SLA battery that produces 14 volts at full charge, and six LED's with a forward voltage of 2V and a maximum current of 100 mA. The LED's will always drop their forward voltage, so 12V will drop over the LED's, and the remaining 2V will drop over the resistor. The current through the resistor is the same as through the LED's, so it can be no more than 100 mA. Using Ohm's Law to solve for 2V @ 100mA gives a resistance of 20 ohms. To buy a resistor you need to know its resistance, and also its power, so solving Watt's Law for 2V and 20 ohms gives .20 watts.

With a current limiting resistor, there is always some efficiency loss. The efficiency is given by (forward voltage)/(supply voltage). Note that the value of the resistor does not affect the efficiency.

As the supply voltage drops, the efficiency increases, but the power output decreases. The power output is given by (Power at maximum voltage)*(Supply voltage-Forward voltage)/(Maximum voltage-forward voltage). Note that when the supply voltage reaches the forward voltage -- 12 V in our example -- the power drops to zero and the LED shuts off. Again, the value of the resistor does not affect this equation.

So when you are designing your circuit, what is important is the range of the supply voltage and the forward voltage of your LED's. You have to make a compromise. The lower your forward voltage, the more even the output will be over a range of voltages and the lower your shut-off voltage. However, the higher the forward voltage, the more efficient your light is.

As a reference point, I have some LED truck taillights and they are 4 LED's with a combined forward voltage of 8V. The designer chose stability over efficiency.

In an efficiency-crucial application like bike lighting, it probably makes sense to use a voltage regulator. But that's another topic.
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Old 10-27-06, 10:30 AM   #1343
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Hey, thanks about the wasted energy hint. Ill look around for red LED MR 16's, here in finland..
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Old 10-27-06, 10:52 AM   #1344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonH
Does anyone know of a "straight" (no narrow neck) water bottle or similar waterproof container that I could use instead of the tennis ball can?
Have you thought of using 2 1/2" plastic drain pipe with cap fittings on the ends? Would your batteries fit?
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Old 10-27-06, 11:06 AM   #1345
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Mounting question:

I am building up a fixie for winter commuting/training and since I have no need for the downtube cable/shifter bosses, I was thinking they may be a great attachment point for lights. It would be close to the bottle battery so wiring would be short and sweet and it would keep the bars clean. Plus, it would illuminate the front wheel and let folks know "bike!"

Has anyone done this?
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Old 10-27-06, 12:04 PM   #1346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Map tester
Have you thought of using 2 1/2" plastic drain pipe with cap fittings on the ends? Would your batteries fit?
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll check it out. I guess I need to spend more time at Home Depot.
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Old 10-27-06, 01:46 PM   #1347
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Originally Posted by caloso
I am building up a fixie for winter commuting/training and since I have no need for the downtube cable/shifter bosses, I was thinking they may be a great attachment point for lights. It would be close to the bottle battery so wiring would be short and sweet and it would keep the bars clean. Plus, it would illuminate the front wheel and let folks know "bike!"

Has anyone done this?
Would you smack the lights with your knees when out of the saddle?
Depends on your bike's geometry, but when i'm on the ends of the bars, my knees are swinging through that area.
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Old 10-27-06, 02:18 PM   #1348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbat
Would you smack the lights with your knees when out of the saddle?
Depends on your bike's geometry, but when i'm on the ends of the bars, my knees are swinging through that area.
I was eyeballing it, and I think it would be okay.
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Old 10-27-06, 04:27 PM   #1349
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Originally Posted by Map tester
Have you thought of using 2 1/2" plastic drain pipe with cap fittings on the ends? Would your batteries fit?
How long do you suppose it'll be before someone calls in a report that he's lugging a pipe bomb?

I really want to thank everyone who has contributed to this heroic thread. Tons of great information and inspiration.

Looking back at page 54, I see that Novakane is assembling halogen lights in plastic pipe, but doesn't have them running yet. Are those plastic housings going to melt, or are they up to that task?
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Old 10-28-06, 06:29 AM   #1350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caloso
Mounting question:

I am building up a fixie for winter commuting/training and since I have no need for the downtube cable/shifter bosses, I was thinking they may be a great attachment point for lights. It would be close to the bottle battery so wiring would be short and sweet and it would keep the bars clean. Plus, it would illuminate the front wheel and let folks know "bike!"

Has anyone done this?
I would worry about two things. THe first is having the lights blocked by the front wheel, brake cables, etc. The second is your eyes not being shielded from the light, or the reflection from the items blocking it. But try it, geekiness is all about experimentation. And report back.
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