My fist LED build
02-19-09, 05:56 PM
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My fist LED build
So I am building my fist LED light. It's almost identical to Allen Chapman's triple P4 light on https://bikeled.org/
I have gotten almost everything on order I need:
3 Edison Opto LEDs and a pack of cheap heatsinks - https://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4282
Driver - https://www.ledsupply.com/03023-d-n-1000.php
2, 5 degree optics - https://www.ledsupply.com/l2-op-005.php
a 5x20 degree optic - https://www.ledsupply.com/l2-op-520.php
3, optic holders - https://www.ledsupply.com/l2-oh-s35.php
Arctic Alumina Thermal Adhesive - https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=120372972077
So far my total spent is approx. $72 usd
I was planning on using Cree R2 LEDs, but after I ordered the L2 optics I found out that they wouldn't fit crees.
I was planning to use the same battery as Allen does, https://www.batteryspace.com/index.as...OD&ProdID=2486 but was advise that it was not a good idea:
I have sent Allen an email and will post his reply, but I am willing to hear anyone's thoughts on powering the light.
I have gotten almost everything on order I need:
3 Edison Opto LEDs and a pack of cheap heatsinks - https://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4282
Driver - https://www.ledsupply.com/03023-d-n-1000.php
2, 5 degree optics - https://www.ledsupply.com/l2-op-005.php
a 5x20 degree optic - https://www.ledsupply.com/l2-op-520.php
3, optic holders - https://www.ledsupply.com/l2-oh-s35.php
Arctic Alumina Thermal Adhesive - https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=120372972077
So far my total spent is approx. $72 usd
I was planning on using Cree R2 LEDs, but after I ordered the L2 optics I found out that they wouldn't fit crees.
I was planning to use the same battery as Allen does, https://www.batteryspace.com/index.as...OD&ProdID=2486 but was advise that it was not a good idea:
Hi,
I've been looking at reptilian's planned light specifically the battery and buckpuck.
Can someone in the know have a look at my conclusions and see if there are any glaring errors ?
1) the 14.8V battery is protected and will cut out at 11V
2) the buck puck requires a higher voltage in than out (+2V for DC models) from the spec sheet
3) at 1A each LED HAS to be at 3.7V - 3.7 x 3 = 11.1V has to be supplied by the buckpuck
Once you start powering the LEDs the battery voltage will slowly drop, when it gets to about 13.1V the buckpuck will no longer power the LEDs.
The battery will probably be less than 50% discharged.
Although the buckpuck output voltage and current will be constant (11.1V x 1000mA) the input voltage and current won't be - the buckpuck will increasingly demand more current as the voltage drops.
The LEDs will run at full brightness until the battery voltage drops to 13.1V.
If you ran two LEDs from that buckpuck they would require 7.4V, therefore the input voltage would be 7.4 + 2 = 9.4V, comfortably below the 11V battery cut off.
You will need to find a different buckpuck, different battery or a boostpuck and different battery.
Or go direct drive.
You are connecting batteries in series to increase the voltage, just to then use complex electronics to drop the voltage back down again.
I haven't used this buckpuck, does anyone know exactly what it does if the input voltage drops below what is required ?
Any thoughts anyone ?
I've been looking at reptilian's planned light specifically the battery and buckpuck.
Can someone in the know have a look at my conclusions and see if there are any glaring errors ?
-----------------
1) the 14.8V battery is protected and will cut out at 11V
2) the buck puck requires a higher voltage in than out (+2V for DC models) from the spec sheet
3) at 1A each LED HAS to be at 3.7V - 3.7 x 3 = 11.1V has to be supplied by the buckpuck
Once you start powering the LEDs the battery voltage will slowly drop, when it gets to about 13.1V the buckpuck will no longer power the LEDs.
The battery will probably be less than 50% discharged.
Although the buckpuck output voltage and current will be constant (11.1V x 1000mA) the input voltage and current won't be - the buckpuck will increasingly demand more current as the voltage drops.
The LEDs will run at full brightness until the battery voltage drops to 13.1V.
If you ran two LEDs from that buckpuck they would require 7.4V, therefore the input voltage would be 7.4 + 2 = 9.4V, comfortably below the 11V battery cut off.
You will need to find a different buckpuck, different battery or a boostpuck and different battery.
Or go direct drive.
You are connecting batteries in series to increase the voltage, just to then use complex electronics to drop the voltage back down again.
I haven't used this buckpuck, does anyone know exactly what it does if the input voltage drops below what is required ?
Any thoughts anyone ?
02-19-09, 09:37 PM
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I don't think there's a problem with your setup.
The 3 LEDs will need 11.1 V if run at 1 A.
The Buckpuck needs an input voltage at least 2 V higher than the LED voltage, so 13.1 V.
13.1 V divided between 4 batteries = 3.3 V each.
At 3.3 V per cell your Li ion batteries will be pretty much depleted (about 90% according to the graph at the bottom of this page).
Once your batteries hit 13.1 V I believe the buckpuck will start to decrease its output current (dim the LEDs) in order to maintain the 2 V difference, but I may be wrong here. If you're planning on running the LEDs at less than 1 A, then there's even less of an issue.
Now that buckpuck is going to get very hot. When the batteries are fresh it'll be dissipating about 4 W.
The 3 LEDs will need 11.1 V if run at 1 A.
The Buckpuck needs an input voltage at least 2 V higher than the LED voltage, so 13.1 V.
13.1 V divided between 4 batteries = 3.3 V each.
At 3.3 V per cell your Li ion batteries will be pretty much depleted (about 90% according to the graph at the bottom of this page).
Once your batteries hit 13.1 V I believe the buckpuck will start to decrease its output current (dim the LEDs) in order to maintain the 2 V difference, but I may be wrong here. If you're planning on running the LEDs at less than 1 A, then there's even less of an issue.
Now that buckpuck is going to get very hot. When the batteries are fresh it'll be dissipating about 4 W.
02-20-09, 09:19 AM
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Yup, that's pretty much what Allen had to say:
you should be OK with a 14.8 Li-Ion pack. They actually start out at about 16.8v when fully charged and the protection circuity usually shuts them down around 12.8v typically (depends on the circuit), but you will notice your light dimming some before then and should have a good runtime.
Maybe I'll stick a heatsink onto the buckpuck
you should be OK with a 14.8 Li-Ion pack. They actually start out at about 16.8v when fully charged and the protection circuity usually shuts them down around 12.8v typically (depends on the circuit), but you will notice your light dimming some before then and should have a good runtime.
Maybe I'll stick a heatsink onto the buckpuck
02-20-09, 07:13 PM
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Post some pix when you get it up and running.
02-21-09, 09:42 AM
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On my first build I was advised to buy tri-optics from Luxeon, which is understandable as I was attempting the Triple Luxeon Headlight on the pilom site, at this point I didn't know that Cree and Luxeon don't fit together.
Anyway, I was advised to buy Cree Q5s to go with the Luxeon Triple Collimator and of course...they didn't fit.
The Edison LEDs aren't quite as bright as the Q5s, but they are a lot brighter and cheaper than Luxeon LEDs and have the same fitting.
I also have a shop bought Luxeon powered cycle light, which I attempted to upgrade with a Cree R2, of course that didn't fit either.
As with other people who have bought the Edisons, mine came on a 16mm disk, both times I've bought them.
If you want to upgrade anything that originally uses Luxeon LEDs the Edisons are a good option, they fit, aren't too expensive and are 210 lumens.
I wouldn't have recommended them to the OP if I hadn't tried them and didn't believe they would be better suited to his optics.
Cree R2s and compatible optics would have been a better choice but the OP had already ordered his luxeon optics.
02-21-09, 09:43 AM
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I was planning on using Cree R2s, but I had already ordered the optics and was told by another user they might not fit, but the edisons wiould. They are the first person I have heard of using them too.
In case you are wondering this started out in a different thread:
https://www.bikeforums.net/electronics-lighting-gadgets/511092-would-dual-lights-double-light.html
Here are some Edison LEDs that are nearly as good as Cree R2s but fit luxeon optics.
Although they are pictured without bases I've bought these twice and both times they came with bases (bases are very cheap, anyway).
You could use 3 of these with your optics and save the R2s for another project.
After discovering how difficult it is to get a cree in the right place using luxeon optics I used these.
Although they are pictured without bases I've bought these twice and both times they came with bases (bases are very cheap, anyway).
You could use 3 of these with your optics and save the R2s for another project.
After discovering how difficult it is to get a cree in the right place using luxeon optics I used these.
https://www.bikeforums.net/electronics-lighting-gadgets/511092-would-dual-lights-double-light.html
02-25-09, 08:38 PM
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02-25-09, 10:03 PM
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Last edited by brokenknee; 02-25-09 at 10:11 PM. Reason: posted wrong link.
02-26-09, 03:42 AM
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02-27-09, 08:46 PM
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Sorry, been to busy the this week to check up.
I would like to have a pack. I can solder one together, but I don't know how charging would work, and I'm pretty sure they would need a management system (which I also know nothing about)
I would like to have a pack. I can solder one together, but I don't know how charging would work, and I'm pretty sure they would need a management system (which I also know nothing about)
02-28-09, 02:52 AM
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Not so much a management system, just balanced charging.
There is only one way to balance charge a soldered pack and that is by adding a balance plug when putting the pack together.
You'll also need a balanced charger the same as R/C people use.
There is only one way to balance charge a soldered pack and that is by adding a balance plug when putting the pack together.
You'll also need a balanced charger the same as R/C people use.
02-28-09, 09:17 AM
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02-28-09, 10:00 AM
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I'm looking at this one right now.
https://www.batteryspace.com/index.as...OD&ProdID=4933
https://www.batteryspace.com/index.as...OD&ProdID=4933
02-28-09, 04:11 PM
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I'm looking at this one right now.
https://www.batteryspace.com/index.as...OD&ProdID=4933
https://www.batteryspace.com/index.as...OD&ProdID=4933
A comparable R/C lipo would be ZIPPY Flightmax 2200mAh which can be balance charged.
03-02-09, 05:40 AM
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Looks nice, no balance plug though ?
A comparable R/C lipo would be ZIPPY Flightmax 2200mAh which can be balance charged.
A comparable R/C lipo would be ZIPPY Flightmax 2200mAh which can be balance charged.
https://www.all-battery.com/universal...48v4cells.aspx
03-02-09, 09:41 AM
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Wouldn't I just need to get a smart charger for it? Like this:
https://www.all-battery.com/universal...48v4cells.aspx
https://www.all-battery.com/universal...48v4cells.aspx
it's about as billy basic as they come. It's fixed cell count, fixed current and the only feature that is anywhere near 'smart' is that it stops when the battery is charged - which is a necessary requirement for charging lithium cells anyway.A smart charger should offer a selection of extra features such as charge rate, cell count, different chemistries, balanced charging, cell cycling, storage charging etc...
Lipos are generally fast discharged and benefit greatly from balanced charging.
The same should apply to Lithium Ion cells and if I was assembling a pack from Li-I cells I would add a balance lead and use a RC charger.
However, if the pack and charger you are looking at work ok together then it should be perfectly alright.
03-17-09, 09:22 PM
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I've got some R2 XREs on the way from Dx. I wanted to go with the XPEs, but I'll leave that for the next build.
I'm trying to be patient because I know I'm not going to get to the build right away anyway.
I'm trying to be patient because I know I'm not going to get to the build right away anyway.