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Old 09-10-09, 08:06 AM   #1
bergjm
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Dinotte has upped the ante on headlights

I was just browsing the Dinotte Lighting website and they have just released a new headlight the 1200L - 1200 Lumens - ouch! Their 800L light is pretty bright as it is, I can't imagine 1200 Lumens. According to the website, it has only a 2 hour burn time (30 minutes less thatn 800L on high), which I am assuming is on high. I think at this point Dinotte is gooing to have to develop a 6 cell battery. I would imagine this would appeal mostly to MTBers, and many of us ride more than 2 hours at night.

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Old 09-11-09, 04:57 PM   #2
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Had 1200 lumens for over a year now and 2000 is around the corner literally. Has NiteRider released their pro system yet also rated at 1200 lumens?
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Old 09-11-09, 05:09 PM   #3
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And don't forget lupine betty at 1400.

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Old 09-11-09, 09:42 PM   #4
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Not according to the other thread
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Old 09-12-09, 12:36 AM   #5
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Considering all the recent leaps in LED technology, and all the low cost lights coming out, $479 with one battery, $549 with two, is quite a steep price.

http://store.dinottelighting.com/sha...S=dinotte&All=
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Old 09-12-09, 05:59 AM   #6
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Yeah, what they really need to do is start lowering prices. A decent light in the 600 lumen range for < $200 is really what most commuters need and that price is the high end of what they should cost, given the MS $90 light that puts out that kind of light. I'm willing to pay more for made in the USA, but not the 4.5 times more that they're charging now ($399 for the 600L versus $90 for the MS light).
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Old 09-12-09, 06:09 AM   #7
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Had 1200 lumens for over a year now and 2000 is around the corner literally. Has NiteRider released their pro system yet also rated at 1200 lumens?
Yes

http://www.niterider.com/prod_pro1200.shtml
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Old 09-12-09, 06:20 PM   #8
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Talking Niterider Pro Series

I am glad to see that Niterider has put the button back on the light for the Pro series - I would think it would be awkward finding the button on the battery rather than the light in the dark. Maybe I am just used to years of having the switch on the light.
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Old 09-12-09, 07:09 PM   #9
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I'm sorry but everytime I spend some serious $$$ on a name brand light they try to screw me when the battery dies 1 or 2 years later.. This has happened twice with Niterider and once with Light and Motion..

I have been using P7's for over a year and have not missed a beat.. I love riding at night, less traffic by about 90% here in socal and the weather is so mild that I can ride year round at night.. Even if I had to buy a MS style light every 2 years I would still be way ahead..
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Old 09-12-09, 09:20 PM   #10
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They have had the pro 1200 up for a while, but I don't see anywhere I can actually buy it yet.
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Old 09-13-09, 11:25 AM   #11
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What is your favorite source for reasonably priced and reliable P7 lights? What kind of run time are you getting, what batteries do you use, and what are you using for a mount?

I tried searching the forums, but didn't come up with anything. Sorry if it's in here somewhere.
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Old 09-13-09, 11:40 AM   #12
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They have had the pro 1200 up for a while, but I don't see anywhere I can actually buy it yet.
LMGTFY:

http://www.google.com/products?hl=en...-8&sa=N&tab=wf
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Old 09-14-09, 07:57 AM   #13
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Let me read a little more. Available soon as all the sites say.

Come on read a little
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Old 09-14-09, 11:05 AM   #14
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I was REALLY hoping that Dinotte would introduce a multi-core LED based light (a-la Lupine Tesla / MS, etc).

It would be nice to have Dinotte quality and build with current LED technology. The 800L is a huge head already. I have a 400L and really like it,....

My wish list from Dinotte would be to:

Drop the price on the 400L
Intro a P7/MC-E based light in a compact head
Intro a dual LED P7/MC-E.

I was thinking this was the year that they would jump to the new LED tech... maybe 2010.

I would still buy from them without hesitation however.
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Old 09-14-09, 12:09 PM   #15
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I've been wondering that about Dinotte (and other) lights - do two 200 lumen lights really act the same as a single 400 lumen light? Just wondering. As you say, the multihead lights are bigger at least, I just wonder how well they work.
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Old 09-14-09, 02:04 PM   #16
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Luminous fluxes (measurements in lumens) simply add. So two 200 lumen lights should act like one 400 lumen light, if the light is spread over the same area in both cases.
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Old 09-14-09, 03:53 PM   #17
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I'm not saying that nobody does, but I really have no use for 1200 lumens. I would like to see a couple of other things -
1. Lower prices (in general, pertains to everything I ever buy, lol)
2. A shaped beam that lights up the road like it's halfway to daytime, but still puts enough light above the road to see oncoming pedestrians. Would also illuminate the road evenly. I feel like the Dinottes waste a lot of light in the spot part of the beam because I can see the best when the spot is just above the horizon and isn't really quite hitting the road.
3. Better battery holds for the AA versions of their lights. Those thing are a PITA to change the batteries on - the batteries will pop out over bumps if you don't wrap something around the batteries in the case.
4. The ability to charge AA batteries in the case without having to take them out at all. Would be really, really, really awesome. The IXON IQ is the only light I know of that can do this *and* lets you put different batteries in and out - it's really really convenient.
5. A light that has the light and batteries as one unit so it can be quickly and easily removed from the bike, and be able to do so without having to rdo where the light is pointing every time.
6. Fix how if you leave the batteries connected to the lights (with the lights off, of course) the batteries will get drained. I've had this happen on both the AA versions and the lithium versions. Thought I had lights, got near dark, hit the switch - nuttin.
7. AA battery options for their brighter lights. Dinotte has some of the lowest replacement battery cost with their -lith-ion batteries on the market, but it's still nowhere near the cost of replacing AA rechargeables. Yes, it has longer runtimes, but to replace a 2 cell lith-ion battery costs $50 the last time I checked, a 4 cell costs $70. That's vs $10 or $20 for AA's. The idea that AA's "can't provide the power" is ridiculous - their bigger lights simply run off more LED's, just wire each set of 4 AA's up to each LED. Obviously the battery pack would get a little huge - 8 AA's for a 400L, 12 for a 600L, 16 for an 800L. But combine this with the ability to charge the batteries in the pack, and it would be pretty cool. :-)

P.S. I don't see a 1200 lumen light on the Dinotte website - do you have a link?
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Old 09-14-09, 04:00 PM   #18
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P.S. Oh, and
8. Adapters and mounts for non handlebar mounting positions, like connected to the brake mount just above the fork.
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Old 09-14-09, 04:04 PM   #19
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P.P.S. Oh, and
9. In addition to a shaped beam which really really light up the road surface and also provides enough ambient light to see upcoming obstacles, I'd also love to see a small flashing light integrated next to the main light for visibility to cars on city streets. (I've found when driving the solid light next to a blinky light is definitely the easiest bikes to see and track)
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Old 09-14-09, 04:08 PM   #20
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I am not picking on you, just pointing out my perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
1. Lower prices (in general, pertains to everything I ever buy, lol)
When I bought my original NiteRider Minewt it was 75-90 lumens and cost me $189. Now $90 buys me a 600 lumen MS, and $269 buys me 400 lumens from Dinotte AND I get two batteries, longer run time, &better UI.

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2. A shaped beam that lights up the road like it's halfway to daytime, but still puts enough light above the road to see oncoming pedestrians. Would also illuminate the road evenly. I feel like the Dinottes waste a lot of light in the spot part of the beam because I can see the best when the spot is just above the horizon and isn't really quite hitting the road.
I think the optics required to get that beam patter preclude it from being a bike light. The heds on a multi-reflector unit are big and bulky. There is a German mnfd that makes a nice cutoff beam, but its lots of $ and not small.

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snip - AA battery comments - snip
I generally would rather have the convenience of being able to plug in a sealed battery pack over AA batteries any day. I don't mind paying extra for a $50 18650 battery pack when it will save me the hassle of fiddleing with my pack ever week when I go to recharge the batts.

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5. A light that has the light and batteries as one unit so it can be quickly and easily removed from the bike, and be able to do so without having to rdo where the light is pointing every time.
I buy multiple mounts and just swap the lights back and forth. I have each mount marked so I know where the light should be pointed. Its cake. I guess you can't do that with the 200L however....

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P.S. I don't see a 1200 lumen light on the Dinotte website - do you have a link?
http://store.dinottelighting.com/sha...ount2=84312081

Its there, if the direct link does not work, go to online store, lithium ion series, scroll down or do a serach for 2009, and you will find it.
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Old 09-14-09, 04:42 PM   #21
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When I bought my original NiteRider Minewt it was 75-90 lumens and cost me $189. Now $90 buys me a 600 lumen MS, and $269 buys me 400 lumens from Dinotte AND I get two batteries, longer run time, &better UI.
That's definitely true...but not for Dinotte's. Used to be they kept going up in lumen output for the same price. Prices and lumens output has been the same for a while, though.

I'm not saying it's a huge deal, but like everyone I like cheaper and cheaper stuff. :-)

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I think the optics required to get that beam patter preclude it from being a bike light. The heds on a multi-reflector unit are big and bulky. There is a German mnfd that makes a nice cutoff beam, but its lots of $ and not small.
I don't believe that's the case. The Lumotec Cyo is a little bigger than, say a 200L, but smaller than an 800L:


It has a pretty severe cutoff. The Seca 700 is bike light sized, to, and has at least a semi shaped beam:


Oh, and the Schmidt e3 is also pretty much the same size as a 200L but there's a "shaped beam" version (in that size).

Not trying to be nit picky, just trying helpfully point out other examples. :-)


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I generally would rather have the convenience of being able to plug in a sealed battery pack over AA batteries any day. I don't mind paying extra for a $50 18650 battery pack when it will save me the hassle of fiddleing with my pack ever week when I go to recharge the batts.
Yes, I definitely agree that adding and removing 8 to 16 AA batteries would be a giant PITA. But first, I mentioned that it would be cool if it was combined with an integrated charger, so you put the AA batteries in but then just plug in a charger to the pack and they charge without taking them out. Secondly, I certainly wasn't suggesting they discontinue that lith-ion versions. The lith-ion versions are smaller with a larger capacity in exchange for more money. I just think it would be nice have to option, just like you have the option of going with either choice with the 200L. When I was in college I know I would have preferred to spend the time messing with batteries rather than pay an extra $100. Now that I'm out and have a steady job, the money vs convenience thing is definitely different.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hirohsima View Post
I buy multiple mounts and just swap the lights back and forth. I have each mount marked so I know where the light should be pointed. Its cake. I guess you can't do that with the 200L however....
Yup, the 200L requires taking the whole light on and off each time. The 400L has no quick release, it requires a screwdriver to take off (I prefer the skinnier and more "out front" mount vs the handlebar mount, and like that the light minimizes it's use of handlebar space. Doesn't make a good light if you can't leave your lights on your bike, though).



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hirohsima View Post
http://store.dinottelighting.com/sha...ount2=84312081

Its there, if the direct link does not work, go to online store, lithium ion series, scroll down or do a serach for 2009, and you will find it.
Thanks - found it! :-)


Currently, my ideal setup is a Lumotec Cyo (very shaped beam, bright on the pavement and some light to the sides but not a lot) with a Dinotte 200L (flashlight style beam, lights up to the side of the road for the really dark areas on the path) and I'm thinking of putting a cheap blinking light next to them. Just saying I wish these all came in one light with one battery (or battery pack). :-)

Last edited by PaulRivers; 09-14-09 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 09-14-09, 05:21 PM   #22
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I would love to have a nice car type beam for a cycling light, so we agree there. The HID's on my MDX (on both the fog and the low beams) have a crazy cutoff.... but when you tear into the reflectors/housing, you see they just have a shield in front of the bulb. Not sure about the others you have listed. The Seca 700 uses a circular reflector,... so its shaped, but not with a sharp cutoff. I do like that light. Too much $$ however.

I think the cutoff ends up wasting light,... and for small systems with limited output and run-time, wasted light is the enemy. Plus in the lumen war, I suspect that it way cooler to say "1200 lumen light" over "800 lumen light with a really nice cutoff".

If we only bike commuted and nobody did night MTB, then I could see lightmakers looking into better reflector design. But taken from their perspective, they have incentive to keep lumen output high, cost down, and produce 1 light that can be used for commuting and MTB. That to me says they won't be producing a light with a good cutoff until they are regulated by law.

Re your note about putting a cheap blinky next to your 200L, I would not bother. My boss does that (he has a Minewt Sol which is ~ 112 lumens) and has a cateye blinky next to it. When he has both on, I can't even see the blinky as its obscured in intensity by his main light.

I run a 400L on my helmet and a MS P7 on my bars. Its great. Almost as bright as a car headlight and super on the road. I figure its close to 1000 lumens.... which don't mind having. Because when it rains reflected light shrinks to about zip,... so 1000 lumens looks more like 200-300 in the dry. Light output is even more dismal with is pouring rain....
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Old 09-14-09, 05:43 PM   #23
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I would love to have a nice car type beam for a cycling light, so we agree there. The HID's on my MDX (on both the fog and the low beams) have a crazy cutoff.... but when you tear into the reflectors/housing, you see they just have a shield in front of the bulb. Not sure about the others you have listed. The Seca 700 uses a circular reflector,... so its shaped, but not with a sharp cutoff. I do like that light. Too much $$ however.

I think the cutoff ends up wasting light,... and for small systems with limited output and run-time, wasted light is the enemy. Plus in the lumen war, I suspect that it way cooler to say "1200 lumen light" over "800 lumen light with a really nice cutoff".

If we only bike commuted and nobody did night MTB, then I could see lightmakers looking into better reflector design. But taken from their perspective, they have incentive to keep lumen output high, cost down, and produce 1 light that can be used for commuting and MTB. That to me says they won't be producing a light with a good cutoff until they are regulated by law.

Re your note about putting a cheap blinky next to your 200L, I would not bother. My boss does that (he has a Minewt Sol which is ~ 112 lumens) and has a cateye blinky next to it. When he has both on, I can't even see the blinky as its obscured in intensity by his main light.

I run a 400L on my helmet and a MS P7 on my bars. Its great. Almost as bright as a car headlight and super on the road. I figure its close to 1000 lumens.... which don't mind having. Because when it rains reflected light shrinks to about zip,... so 1000 lumens looks more like 200-300 in the dry. Light output is even more dismal with is pouring rain....
I'm 99% sure the Cyo, specifically, does not waste any light while still having a sharp cutoff. They actually put the LED in facing backwards so they could shape the light with the reflector and lense without losing any light. I would agree that simply blocking the top part of the light would be a waste, for sure. IMO, I think it should put a little more light above the horizon, but the german regulations are what they are.

I agree with you about marketing - people are still in the "more lumens is better, end of story" mindset which I find unfortunate. Hopefully they'll learn. :-) I guess it's my only hope! haha I do *really* *really* think a nicely shaped beam is way more pleasant to ride at night with than the flashlight style beam - I think if other people tried it, then would agree as well.

And as you mentioned, it's cheaper for them to simply make all lights like they're mountain bike lights then to have separate mountain and road designed lights. Lol, see your comment about the Light and Motion light being expensive - and it's also a mountain bike light! :-)

The one piece of good news (or bad) is that the LED light output seems to be levelling out, so constantly redesigning a lense may become more practical (a lense design that lasts 10 years is far more plausible than one that might only last a couple of years until the next brighter LED comes out).

That's to bad about your boss's blinky, but I have seen it done effectively and that's what I'm shooting for. If a cheap blinky light gets obscured, I'll try out a more expensive higher output blinky light next to it instead.

The Dinotte 400L is perhaps the brightest helmet light I would recommend - the nice thing about it is that it's such and extremely narrow beam that you really have to look right at someone for them to get a bunch of light in their face from it. It might be nearly the perfect helmet light - don't know what a shaped beam could do to improve upon it (for a helmet mounted light). Haven't tried a shaped beam, though.
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Old 09-14-09, 06:10 PM   #24
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Something I would like to see: A light that could read your wheelspeed sensor to automatically vary output by speed.
When I am climbing a 12% grade at 10 mph, I have no need to see more than 50 feet up the hill.
When I am descending at 35+, I want to see as far as possible.
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Old 09-14-09, 07:24 PM   #25
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Something I would like to see: A light that could read your wheelspeed sensor to automatically vary output by speed.
When I am climbing a 12% grade at 10 mph, I have no need to see more than 50 feet up the hill.
When I am descending at 35+, I want to see as far as possible.
Yeah, I had to build my own. Very nice to ride with.
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