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Old 12-01-09, 12:23 PM   #1
CliftonGK1
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Dual headlights on SON28 question

I want to set up a SON Edelux as my primary running light with a Seculite tail lamp, and a Supernova E3 as a flood-fill light to be used during long, high speed descending. The E3 is currently wired to an E3 tail light. The Edelux/Seculite are not yet installed.

To wire this combo so I may chose either a) The Edelux, b) the E3, or c) both, do I simply strip the current connectors from the E3 leads and crimp a new set of connectors with a lead from each of the 2 lamps?
I've seen SON E6 primary/seconday wiring setups which use one lead from each lamp connected to the hub, and the remaining two are jumpered to each other, but if I'm not mistaken, those lamps are specifically circuited for that type of setup while the two I am using are not.
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Old 12-01-09, 04:54 PM   #2
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Wiring for use of one light at a time is parallel wiring with the dynamo leads from both lights going to the dynamo and using the switches on the lights to select which is on. A fancier setup could be wired such that either light could be selected with a toggle switch on the handlebar. I do not believe that the SON, or any other Dyno hub, puts out enough current to run both lights at anywhere near full power when wired in parallel.

Series wiring, with one wire from each light tied together and the others attached to the dynamo as you described, MIGHT work at higher speeds but both lights must be on to complete the circuit. At lower speeds output would be reduced compared to a single light I suspect.

Have you emailed Supernova or Schmidt tech support to ask about their thoughts or suggestions on this combination?
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Old 12-04-09, 12:55 PM   #3
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It appears that it will work to wire the lights in parallel, and I should get nearly full output from both when used together.
Response from SON regarding parallel wiring of the E3 and Edelux lamps: (my questions in blue)


Dear Mr. Clifton,

you wrote us:
>I have a SON28 hub and would like to use a SON Edelux lamp as my primary
>light, and a Supernova E3 as an optional lamp for night time mountain
>descents.

The E3 come in different variants. All of them have less brightness in the
center but an overall much wider light distribution. For off-road use the
E3 might be a good choice. All the following is only valid for the
single-LED E3, not the triple LED which I don't have at hand right now.

>Does the SON28 hub produce enough current to operate both lamps wired in
>parallel so that I may use the following combinations:
>a) SON Edelux lamp only
>b) Supernova E3 lamp only
>c) Both lamps together


In case c both lights operate at reduced power. If you aim both lights to
the same spot on a wall, you will have 100% brightness in case a, 70% in
case b and about 90% in case c. I tested this at 15 and 30 kmph. The
advantage of case c is the better illumination of the side areas of the
road/trail.

Clarification: The Edelux is being used as the 100% measure. Therefore, the E3 appears 70% as bright as the Edelux due to its wide beam pattern, and the combination of the two is 90% of the brightness of the Edelux alone, but gives a fuller coverage; which is really the effect I was hoping for.

>I am not concerned if the parallel circuit will only have enough current
>at higher speeds, since the dual lamp operation will be used specifically
>for high-speed night time descending.


It works (with the components I tested here) at any speed.

Gruß
Andreas Oehler

P.S. I presume you are located in northern america. So I take the liberty
of sending a copy of this email to our american distributor Peter White,
who might also be interested in this kind of application.
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Old 12-05-09, 04:17 PM   #4
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Clifton;

Thanks, I learn something new all of the time! I appreciate your sharing your response from SON.
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Old 12-06-09, 03:47 PM   #5
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Glad to pass on the info for everyone.

I've been very happy with the response time from both Schmidt Maschinebau and Supernova Lighting when I emailed with questions. Gregor Arndt at Supernova has in the past, assured me that either a serial or parallel wiring of dual Supernova E3 lamps will work on a SON28 hub and near full brightness is acheived at 9mph or above.
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Old 12-08-09, 11:42 AM   #6
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And pow! There it is.
I put on the twin Paul Ginos and R&M mounts last night, and mounted E3 and Edelux below my front rack. I looped the excess wiring from each under the fork crown, around the fender mounting bracket to keep things clean. Just enough was left to head down to the hub with a little slack for removing the spades from the hub.
I stripped the old spades from the E3 leads, twisted a pair of wires together from both the E3 and the Edelux, and crimped new spades on. A quick test revealed that the lighting was operational, so I popped the spades off the hub and went to work with some shrink tubing and my heat gun.
This morning I was using both lights coming down the 2 mile descent from my neighbourhood, and the difference was amazing. The focused beam of the Edelux is so much longer than the throw of the E3, and the E3 fills the "dark" spot between the Edelux beam and the wheel as well as giving a flood fill to the sides.
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Old 12-08-09, 12:11 PM   #7
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Clifton;

Is your Supernova E3 the standard or asymmetric beam version? From the photos on Peter White's web site I figured that the E3 standard had a longer beam throw than the Edelux. Could well be that the LED in the Edelux has been upgraded since the photo was taken.

I have the B&M IQ Cyo standard and do not care for the dark area immediately in front of the front wheel. Per the Supernova web site the asymmetric beam E3 is supposed to provide the best close in illumination of any of their dynamo lights.
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Old 12-08-09, 12:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tatfiend View Post
Clifton;

Is your Supernova E3 the standard or asymmetric beam version? From the photos on Peter White's web site I figured that the E3 standard had a longer beam throw than the Edelux. Could well be that the LED in the Edelux has been upgraded since the photo was taken.

I have the B&M IQ Cyo standard and do not care for the dark area immediately in front of the front wheel. Per the Supernova web site the asymmetric beam E3 is supposed to provide the best close in illumination of any of their dynamo lights.
It's the original E3 standard (symmetrical/round) beam version. I bought the E3 when the Edelux came out, because I didn't feel like waiting 3 months for an Edelux. (If you recall, they were in short supply and high demand, and there was quite a wait for those of us who didn't get in on the first round of them.)
The E3 standard can throw a very long beam, but if you aim that main spot too far out, then the top spill is just going off into the night sky. I keep the main spot aimed about 35' out and that still puts a good amount of the top spill from the light on the street instead of into people's eyes. It also gives good fill in front of the wheel and to the sides of the road so I can scan for woodland creatures as I'm barelling downhill in the darkness.

I have the Cyo on my other bike, and the reflector/optics are the same so the beam pattern is identical. If you mount it low, you can minimize that dark spot at the wheel. Another option is to get a Cyo-R with the nearfield lighting and run them together.
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Old 12-08-09, 08:26 PM   #9
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Clifton;

Sounds like you have an early E3 which means that it has since been updated at least twice based on the Peter White web site and his beam photos. The sequence is E3, E3 brighter version and now the E3 Pro. If you compare the E3 beam shot that is highest on the Peter White beams page with the later one further down the page the increased amount of light being put out is very noticeable.
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Old 12-11-09, 09:35 AM   #10
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The Light On! DynoLight

Tatfiend, I'm curious of your impression of the "Light On! DynoLight"? I'm currently looking for a replacement for a 20 Inoled light for my commuter and considering the Light On or the Supernova. I already love and use and Edelux but would like to add some variety to my stable.

Thanks!
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Old 12-11-09, 05:12 PM   #11
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Clifton, very nice setup!

I wonder what percentage of light brightness is the Supernova E3 Asymmetrical model I got in late September compared to the Edelux? I was going to go with the Edelux but Peter White's photos just seemed to show how much brighter the Supernova was.

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Old 12-11-09, 08:04 PM   #12
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tacreamer;

No problems so far operationally. I do not like the fact that the Dynolight has part of the electronics outside the light in a bulb shaped housing hung on the external wiring. It reminds me of an Elizabethan traitor with his guts hanging out. With the cold weather in Reno I have not gotten to any really dark roads at night to get a really good impression of the light output but it seems good in town so far as I can judge.

Aesthetically I like the Supernova housing better if that is a consideration for you. I also prefer the Supernova handlebar mount better than the O ring handlebar mount that the Dynolight uses, enough so that I made my own mounting plate to use a Cygolite handlebar mount.
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Old 12-31-09, 04:26 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CliftonGK1 View Post
I put on the twin Paul Ginos and R&M mounts last night...

What is the light gray colored, presumably aluminum piece/product you're using to mount your R&M mounts to? In other words, what are between your Nitto M12 rack and your R&M mounts?

Thanks in advance.


Edited to add: Nevermind, found it at http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/lighting/mounts.html

Last edited by Blue Roads; 01-02-10 at 03:33 AM.
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