DiNotte 300R taillight pics & remarks
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I think that the bright lights that are not Dinotte are great. Superflash Turbo, Radbot 1000, the NR Cherrybomb, the new 2 watt from NR (don't remember it's name), and the Cygolite 2 watt (called the Hotshot) are all very bright and do the job. The Dinotte is much, much brighter, but it does not render the others dangerously dim - I personally would not use the Dinotte because where I ride that amount of brightness is just not necessary, but I can imagine applications/roads where it would be nice.
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He was speaking about turning it off in a group ride when others in the herd have their taillights on, so it would not blind fellow cyclists that are following.
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If it's dim enough not to aggravate others in a group ride I doubt cars will be able to see the taillight (at least in direct sunlight.) So you better rely on the increased visibility afforded by riding in a group.
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If it's night time, I have no problem seeing people with blinking superflash tail lights while driving my car. I can see them a quarter mile ahead of me (and if I can't see them because of obstructions, the light intensity doesn't matter for the most part).
If it's daytime, then the light doesn't bother other people in the group ride - because it's daytime.
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That doesn't make any sense - you're not group riding in the dark vs being seen while it's daylight at the same time.
If it's night time, I have no problem seeing people with blinking superflash tail lights while driving my car. I can see them a quarter mile ahead of me (and if I can't see them because of obstructions, the light intensity doesn't matter for the most part).
If it's daytime, then the light doesn't bother other people in the group ride - because it's daytime.
If it's night time, I have no problem seeing people with blinking superflash tail lights while driving my car. I can see them a quarter mile ahead of me (and if I can't see them because of obstructions, the light intensity doesn't matter for the most part).
If it's daytime, then the light doesn't bother other people in the group ride - because it's daytime.
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If you're biking at night, and much (but not all) of the group has tail lights, I feel like those people without tail lights are less visible. If you have the person in the back with no tail light, the driver can see a bunch of tail lights and be focussed on them and not see the invisible rider. If you're careful to keep those people in the middle of the group it doesn't matter, but when that person is in the front, the back, or the person nearest the road in the group, it's the same as not being in a group if not worse, in my opinion.
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I would debate how practically true this is. The group as a whole is more visible, yes. If you're biking in daylight, this is generally true.
If you're biking at night, and much (but not all) of the group has tail lights, I feel like those people without tail lights are less visible. If you have the person in the back with no tail light, the driver can see a bunch of tail lights and be focussed on them and not see the invisible rider. If you're careful to keep those people in the middle of the group it doesn't matter, but when that person is in the front, the back, or the person nearest the road in the group, it's the same as not being in a group if not worse, in my opinion.
If you're biking at night, and much (but not all) of the group has tail lights, I feel like those people without tail lights are less visible. If you have the person in the back with no tail light, the driver can see a bunch of tail lights and be focussed on them and not see the invisible rider. If you're careful to keep those people in the middle of the group it doesn't matter, but when that person is in the front, the back, or the person nearest the road in the group, it's the same as not being in a group if not worse, in my opinion.
If the driver is close enough to hit the cyclist, the rear lights aren't doing much of anything anyway (the lights are not typically pointed in a direction a close driver can see). The primary benefit of blinking rear lights is recognition-at-a-distance (like you indicated in the following).
Last edited by njkayaker; 01-16-13 at 12:39 PM.
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I would debate how practically true this is. The group as a whole is more visible, yes. If you're biking in daylight, this is generally true.
If you're biking at night, and much (but not all) of the group has tail lights, I feel like those people without tail lights are less visible. If you have the person in the back with no tail light, the driver can see a bunch of tail lights and be focussed on them and not see the invisible rider. If you're careful to keep those people in the middle of the group it doesn't matter, but when that person is in the front, the back, or the person nearest the road in the group, it's the same as not being in a group if not worse, in my opinion.
If you're biking at night, and much (but not all) of the group has tail lights, I feel like those people without tail lights are less visible. If you have the person in the back with no tail light, the driver can see a bunch of tail lights and be focussed on them and not see the invisible rider. If you're careful to keep those people in the middle of the group it doesn't matter, but when that person is in the front, the back, or the person nearest the road in the group, it's the same as not being in a group if not worse, in my opinion.
You don't have to take my word for it, simply observe a pack of cyclists in various light conditions.
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At night I use a 99 cent blinkie and it's plenty bright. Daytime in direct sunlight is a completely different story. There are tons of cyclists around here that I pass in my car and virtually none of the blinkies I encounter can be seen in direct sunlight. Which, by the way, is why I got a 300R...
Last edited by Dunbar; 01-16-13 at 02:56 PM.
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Everyone was talking about it being to bright at night.
At night I use a 99 cent blinkie and it's plenty bright. Daytime in direct sunlight is a completely different story. There are tons of cyclists around here that I pass in my car and virtually none of the blinkies I encounter can be seen in direct sunlight. Which, by the way, is why I got a 300R...
But the argument was that the dinotte tail lights (I own the 180L or whatever the less bright version is called) don't have a low enough power setting *at night* for group rides.
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I have, and I've had a few cyclists seem to show up out of nowhere from the middle of a pack when I was watching where the tail lights were. Now if they're in a well lit area, not such a big deal, but it's usually unevenly lit roads or completely unlit highway shoulders.
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The reason that the person in the back should have a light is that it can't be obscured by other riders.
If the driver is close enough to hit the cyclist, the rear lights aren't doing much of anything anyway (the lights are not typically pointed in a direction a close driver can see). The primary benefit of blinking rear lights is recognition-at-a-distance (like you indicated in the following).
If the driver is close enough to hit the cyclist, the rear lights aren't doing much of anything anyway (the lights are not typically pointed in a direction a close driver can see). The primary benefit of blinking rear lights is recognition-at-a-distance (like you indicated in the following).
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"Quick test of the 300r this morning .... wife was behind me about 50 feet. She said she could not ride behind me because the 300r is too distracting/bright."
But the argument was that the dinotte tail lights (I own the 180L or whatever the less bright version is called) don't have a low enough power setting *at night* for group rides.
Last edited by Dunbar; 01-16-13 at 03:38 PM.
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What's odd is what you said earlier.
Taillights give drivers a longer amount of time to register that there's a cyclist ahead and plan for passing the cyclist. Once the driver is close to the cyclist, the taillight is pointing in a completely different direction than towards the driver's eyes (and the tailight is usually too low as well). At that point (actually, earlier), the headlights are doing more to make the cyclist visible. (Note that these two things are not binary: the first blends into the second.)
Last edited by njkayaker; 01-16-13 at 04:58 PM.
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That is an assumption on your part. I'm going to assume the vast majority of group rides are done during the day. The only person who specified day or night was metalheart44 who wrote:
"Quick test of the 300r this morning .... wife was behind me about 50 feet. She said she could not ride behind me because the 300r is too distracting/bright."
The three flashing modes on my 300R are too bright for night use, even when riding solo IMO. It's just obnoxiously bright after dark and probably looks like an ambulance strobe to cars. The steady (solid-on) modes have three different brightness settings to choose from. Although even on low it still is probably too bright for night use in a group ride IMO where people are riding in such close proximity. Imagine riding right behind a car with newer LED tail lights at close proximity and you get some idea of the brightness.
"Quick test of the 300r this morning .... wife was behind me about 50 feet. She said she could not ride behind me because the 300r is too distracting/bright."
The three flashing modes on my 300R are too bright for night use, even when riding solo IMO. It's just obnoxiously bright after dark and probably looks like an ambulance strobe to cars. The steady (solid-on) modes have three different brightness settings to choose from. Although even on low it still is probably too bright for night use in a group ride IMO where people are riding in such close proximity. Imagine riding right behind a car with newer LED tail lights at close proximity and you get some idea of the brightness.
It's certainly a different discussion whether the dinotte tail light are to bright during the day, or whether they're to bright at night. I hadn't meant to say that a light that I haven't used wasn't to bright during the day - it's the 140L that I haven't had a problem with it's brightness in daytime riding (but have in night time riding).
I don't think it's fair to assume we're only talking about daytime riding, but it's certainly a different discussion - I wouldn't disagree with you (not 100% sure I agree yet, but don't disagree really either) about it being safer riding in a group if we were only talking about daytime rides.
I live in Minnesota, and night rides are fairly common when the sun starts to set at 5pm and such (4:30pm is about the earliest, but that's in Dec when there's far fewer group rides).
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No.
What's odd is what you said earlier.
Taillights give drivers a longer amount of time to register that there's a cyclist ahead and plan for passing the cyclist. Once the driver is close to the cyclist, the taillight is pointing in a completely different direction than towards the driver's eyes (and the tailight is usually too low as well). At that point (actually, earlier), the headlights are doing more to make the cyclist visible. (Note that these two things are not binary: the first blends into the second.)
What's odd is what you said earlier.
Taillights give drivers a longer amount of time to register that there's a cyclist ahead and plan for passing the cyclist. Once the driver is close to the cyclist, the taillight is pointing in a completely different direction than towards the driver's eyes (and the tailight is usually too low as well). At that point (actually, earlier), the headlights are doing more to make the cyclist visible. (Note that these two things are not binary: the first blends into the second.)
Maybe we're just going around with terminology here - for night riding I do not think that riding in a group that has tail lights, but you don't have a tail light, to be safer, unless you're careful never to be at the rear or street-side of the group. I have no problem saying that daylight riding is entirely different. :-)
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Although the 300R might be distracting for a cyclist riding directly behind another cyclist, I WANT the brightness it has for the solo riding I do during the day. I have a couple of friends I ride with, but they are usually riding in front of me, but I will ask their opinion about the daylight use of the 300R when riding with others. Personally, I would not want to be riding with someone else using this tail light, but then in a group situation the dynamics are different. Again, for daylight solo riding on rural/suburban roads, the 300R has the brightness I want in a tail light.
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Taillights are much less useful close-up given how they are pointing and the narrow angle-width of the beam and where they are typically mounted on the bike (fairly low). It's easy to see that by looking at them. (A helmet mounted light is high enough but still usually pointed in the wrong direction and narrow.)
Maybe we're just going around with terminology here - for night riding I do not think that riding in a group that has tail lights, but you don't have a tail light, to be safer, unless you're careful never to be at the rear or street-side of the group. I have no problem saying that daylight riding is entirely different. :-)
This still works even if you are in the back unless the light is obscured. And while it's more likely that a light that is not at the rear is obscured, it won't always be obscured (another thing easly observed). You seem to think that the rear-light is the only way cyclists are detectable.
Last edited by njkayaker; 01-16-13 at 06:42 PM.
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Taillights are much less useful close-up given how they are pointing and where they are typically mounted on the bike (fairly low). It's easy to see that by looking at them. (A helmet mounted light is high enough but still usually pointed in the wrong direction.
You still are still safer riding without a taillight with other riders that have them where ever you are in the group for this reason. This still works even if you are in the back unless the light is obscured. And while it's more likely that a light that is not at the rear is obscured, it won't always be obscured (another thing easly observed).
You still are still safer riding without a taillight with other riders that have them where ever you are in the group for this reason. This still works even if you are in the back unless the light is obscured. And while it's more likely that a light that is not at the rear is obscured, it won't always be obscured (another thing easly observed).
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It shows up now, the post says you edited it, maybe you were editing it while I was reading the first draft...
Not 100% sure what you mean by the red text though - was it supposed to link somewhere?
*If* we're talking about biking at night, and we're also talking about biking through areas that are unlit, it *is* pretty much my experience that the only way you're visible is with a rear light. If you're biking during the day, or in a consistently well lit area, things are different.
Earlier this year I almost hit a guy who was biking down a street in an area with no lighting, he had no lights of his own, while I was pulling out of a parking spot. I only missed pulling out right in front of him because my tail lights happened to light up his front reflector *just* enough that I *barely* saw him and didn't pull out. I yes - I *was* deliberately looking behind me for bikes.
Not 100% sure what you mean by the red text though - was it supposed to link somewhere?
*If* we're talking about biking at night, and we're also talking about biking through areas that are unlit, it *is* pretty much my experience that the only way you're visible is with a rear light. If you're biking during the day, or in a consistently well lit area, things are different.
Earlier this year I almost hit a guy who was biking down a street in an area with no lighting, he had no lights of his own, while I was pulling out of a parking spot. I only missed pulling out right in front of him because my tail lights happened to light up his front reflector *just* enough that I *barely* saw him and didn't pull out. I yes - I *was* deliberately looking behind me for bikes.
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Boy this thread is getting complicated! Personally I thought life was a little simpler than that! Myself, as a driver, if I saw a group of riders ahead on the road (regaress of if by flashong lights at night or color during the day), my response would be to immediately take my foot off the gas and pay close attention till past them.
That would be WITHOUT counting the number of people in the group or weighing who did or didn't have lights or who was least conspicuous. So yeah -IMO any rider in a group benifits from the visibility of others. Worst case scenerio - a car headlights can actually pick out a ninja cyclist at 100 feet IF you are attentive and looking for it. Which would be the case when passing any group of cyclists once you've picked them out. As has already been pointed out - unlit riders just need to be in the center of the pack.
That would be WITHOUT counting the number of people in the group or weighing who did or didn't have lights or who was least conspicuous. So yeah -IMO any rider in a group benifits from the visibility of others. Worst case scenerio - a car headlights can actually pick out a ninja cyclist at 100 feet IF you are attentive and looking for it. Which would be the case when passing any group of cyclists once you've picked them out. As has already been pointed out - unlit riders just need to be in the center of the pack.
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Observation update: went for a ride on this bright sunny day with my wife and had the 300R on steady mode highest brightness level and there were no issues with wife riding behind me. She commented that even in bliky mode, highest brightness, it was not "too distracting" meaning she could ride behind me and not be irritated or distracted. Ummm. maybe I should wear it even when off the bike
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Thanks.
Last edited by Blue Roads; 12-23-13 at 02:04 AM.
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