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-   -   Magicshine battery failed; should I go with Dinotte 400L? (http://www.bikeforums.net/electronics-lighting-gadgets/701342-magicshine-battery-failed-should-i-go-dinotte-400l.html)

malux 12-15-10 08:57 AM

Magicshine battery failed; should I go with Dinotte 400L?
 
Well...i was very happy with my MS 900 (even after the battery recall). My plan was to just wait it out and get the upgraded battery when the issues were resolved. But, my battery failed last week. It won't take a charge and it won't power the head anymore.

I used my friend's MS battery to confirm that the head is ok. My 90 days is up tomorrow so I'm thinking of either:

1) returning the battery and keeping the head & getting a dinotte battery
2) returning the whole thing and going with a Dinotte 400L.

Is the dinotte just as bright or am I going to be losing light?

I'm very worried about reliability since the head was dead when I first received the MS and now, 80 something days in, the battery is dead.

AdamDZ 12-15-10 09:39 AM

The head units are usually OK. There is a known problem with the batteries. Return the battery and buy one from another source. There are several posts here dealing with that issue.

Richard Cranium 12-15-10 01:28 PM

Hey - if you can afford the Dinotte - then go for it. The 400 is probably as bright as the MS anyway, and if you go on 'real" rides, where failure is not an option, then bicycle lighting is important.

Not the Slowest 12-15-10 04:08 PM

Note about the 400.
The current attachment is a crew on mount (read on). This of course becomes a hassle to take the light off to avoid theft if left outside or
to swap between bikes.
I did contact Dinotte 2 weeks ago and I was told that they could put a quick release mount on it if requested and I believe there was no charge for that.
You should spec the handlebar size and discuss this with them.

As a side point, the 800 costs way more but if you run the unit at a medium power this will last much longer than the 400 with a brighter output, ask them.

Saddest part is that almost every year Dinotte ran a sale at this time of year but looks like they will not this year.
My guess is that the Magicshine battery issue helped them orrrrr they are coming out with new products and may have a sale then.

Good Luck

Oh yeah, return the unit if you can. I have mine sitting on the shelf and undecided what I will do, but have other lights working.

Robert

seeker333 12-15-10 04:22 PM

why don't you simply return the defective, warrantied battery to the vendor, and buy a second battery for backup, like this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-WATERPROOF-B...item4154fe4bce

malux 12-15-10 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seeker333 (Post 11938539)
why don't you simply return the defective, warrantied battery to the vendor, and buy a second battery for backup, like this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-WATERPROOF-B...item4154fe4bce

I'm thinking of just building my own battery. It's really not that hard. Buying one on ebay seems sketchy because if there are battery issues already, why buy another defective battery that's on recall.

Richard Cranium 12-16-10 12:11 PM

Quote:

I'm thinking of just building my own battery. It's really not that hard. Buying one on ebay seems sketchy because if there are battery issues already, why buy another defective battery that's on recall.
The whole point of the "new" battery casing is to shield the anode of the battery cells from shock.

Most likely, people were banging the shrink-wrap batteries hard enough to damage the PCB -which is munted on the bottom of the cell. The 4400mAh rating checks out with the capacity of current (old) MS batteries, at $38 it isn't that good of a deal. But don't discount the Velcro straps and case, they're a great improvement.

seeker333 12-16-10 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malux (Post 11939598)
I'm thinking of just building my own battery. It's really not that hard. Buying one on ebay seems sketchy because if there are battery issues already, why buy another defective battery that's on recall.

From
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-WATERPROOF-B...fe4bce&afsrc=1

Also note: Though earlier MagicShine battery were of low quality.
As of 11/9/10 they have switched to a new supplier that is UL and CE approved and these are a much higher quality battery

Plutonix 12-17-10 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seeker333 (Post 11944786)
... UL and CE approved ...

...and it must be true, because it is on the internet.

I know UL certifies chargers and they are involved with an industry group in testing battery operated cell phones systems, but I dont know that they certify battery cells. And if they did, several cells in a pack with a PCB added would be an entirely new beast, I'm sure.

malux 12-17-10 08:08 PM

this is why i'm thinking of just building my own cell. Thing is, by the time i do that and buy a charger, i'm looking at more than the cost of the lightset.

rekmeyata 12-17-10 08:52 PM

You could try Gemini Titan lights, they put out 900 lumens and are more rugged and reliable the MagicShine. See: http://gemini-lights.com/

Plutonix 12-18-10 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malux (Post 11949340)
this is why i'm thinking of just building my own cell. Thing is, by the time i do that and buy a charger, i'm looking at more than the cost of the lightset.

That might say something about the lightset.

Even if you are only considering a cell holder with PCB, keep in mind that there are several big advantages over buying a pack.
A) you control the quality and capacity of the cells used.
B) when the cells age, you just replace them
C) If you wanted, you could open the pack periodically to test and balance charge the cells to prolong their life.
D) Most importantly, when you buy a new light, you may just have to put a new connector on the pack and/or buy the light head only. Even if it sits in a box as a backup to the pack for the new light, there is some value in the peace of mind that you could have it back in service in short order if needed.

Since the parts are generic, the initial outlay ought to be spread out over however many years the stuff lasts. The end result is likely to have better capacity and service life than the typical pack.

A pack using non PCB holders (like the Luminous) and a cell charger can be cheaper to build (esp if you already have a cell charger) with all the same advantages. The downside being the hassle of cell charging and having to undo whatever waterproofing you come up with each time you charge it.

malux 12-19-10 06:56 AM

I hear ya there plutonix. Have you heard anything about the tenergy cells? I'm thinking of going with 4 unprotected cells with a PCB or just buying one of their packs with the PCB already built in; I should be able to just use the same charger if I go with 7.4v 4400mah.

The guys at RC Forums dont' think much of tenergy though. Any recommendations on cells/PCB?

These Sayno 18650s seem like a great deal.

Richard Cranium 12-19-10 09:24 AM

Quote:

this is why i'm thinking of just building my own cell.
This comment doesn't make you look like you're paying much attention.

There is simply no way anyone needs to build their own pack, excepting maybe soldering on polarity proof connector. There are too many excellent pack available at prices that you can not even beat by building your self.

This thread is too ignorant of reality. And it also ignores the ease of simply subbing in NiMH AA packs/carriers.

What's next? Bike horns and bells made by hand? Maybe an analog speedometer?

malux 12-19-10 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Cranium (Post 11953973)
This comment doesn't make you look like you're paying much attention.

There is simply no way anyone needs to build their own pack, excepting maybe soldering on polarity proof connector. There are too many excellent pack available at prices that you can not even beat by building your self.

This thread is too ignorant of reality. And it also ignores the ease of simply subbing in NiMH AA packs/carriers.

What's next? Bike horns and bells made by hand? Maybe an analog speedometer?

\\

ouch, just trying to find a solution for my issue. I really would prefer NOT to build my own pack, and you're right- it's too expensive to build one from scratch. You could suggest a pack, that would help. I'd like to get a japan/korea pack 7.4v 4400mah. Any suggestions would be great.

Plutonix 12-19-10 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Cranium (Post 11953973)
There is simply no way anyone needs to build their own pack, excepting maybe soldering on polarity proof connector. There are too many excellent pack available at prices that you can not even beat by building your self.

Well, you're partly right at least as regards basic 4400 packs. The OP indicated he wanted to steer clear of Chinese cells and once you are looking capacities over 4800 with Korean or Japan cells, the price nearly doubles.

Since the MS charger is involved in the vent with flames episodes and part of the recall, it makes no sense to subject a new pack to the tender mercies of that $8 charger, so by all rights a new charger is on order (or lower deduct on fire insurance). Once you are in for a pack and a charger, you are really close to the cost of building your own with as fine of cells as you care to use.

After that, when it dies it's just a matter of popping in some new cells for a fraction of the cost of a new pack. You can even rotate cells out early for secondary flashlight use so that you are always getting something close to the max runtime.


Quote:

Originally Posted by malux
I really would prefer NOT to build my own pack, and you're right- it's too expensive to build one from scratch. You could suggest a pack, that would help. I'd like to get a japan/korea pack 7.4v 4400mah. Any suggestions would be great.

The problem is that Japan/Korea packs are also more expensive (~$55 vs ~$40). See charger note above.

Are you looking for something quick and dirty to get you on the road until the recall takes care of things? If thats the case, then you might be able to make do with a 2200mah or 2500mah pack for $20 or so. You'd only get 1-1.5 hrs of runtime, but thats about the same or more than most peeps are getting with year old MS packs. It might get you by until things gets sorted out.

malux 12-19-10 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plutonix (Post 11955286)
Are you looking for something quick and dirty to get you on the road until the recall takes care of things? If thats the case, then you might be able to make do with a 2200mah or 2500mah pack for $20 or so.

I like the light head and wouldn't mind doing my own charger and battery. yah, it's a bigger initial outlay, but over time, all I'll need are the cells, so I'd be looking at just a few bucks every couple of years (or just a pack).

What do you think of this pack?

I can't find the manufacturer. Do you have a 4400 mah pack you'd recommend? What do you use ? :)

Plutonix 12-19-10 09:15 PM

That looks like a good price, probably Chinese cells. They dont have many other choices though, do they. With the charger you are at $80.

At one point you were trying to avoid Chinese cells, so this one is also 5.2ah and Japan/Korea. It costs more, but their charger is a little cheaper for a total of $92.

Any 7.4V pack with a PCB will work. If the word of mouth from RC peeps is bad on Tenergy, then steer clear. It is kind of silly to go premium and/or Korean since no matter what happens, if you bought it from Geo, you'll be getting another pack and charger someday. In that case, a $20 small pack might suffice.

If you bought it elsewhere and are on the hook, then you could consider the pack and charger from the Gemini. It would even have the same plugs. They are something like $50 for a 5200mah pack.

Iowegian 12-19-10 11:18 PM

It's hard to tell from the photos but it looks like the Gemini lights use the TrailTech connectors. I haven't used them myself but they are supposed to be a bit more robust than the MS connectors. Not exactly compatible either. All in all, the Gemini looks like a MS with a lot of weaknesses addressed, albeit at a higher price.

Pippin 12-20-10 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Cranium (Post 11953973)
This comment doesn't make you look like you're paying much attention.

There is simply no way anyone needs to build their own pack, excepting maybe soldering on polarity proof connector. There are too many excellent pack available at prices that you can not even beat by building your self.

This thread is too ignorant of reality. And it also ignores the ease of simply subbing in NiMH AA packs/carriers.

What's next? Bike horns and bells made by hand? Maybe an analog speedometer?


Asshat...some people like building their own stuff. What are the labor standards supports by buying these super cheap packs.

malux 12-21-10 08:50 AM

Since I just bought the light and can get a replacement, I think i'm going to wait on the build for now (i need to do some more learning also). Also, I just heard back from GeoMan and looks like the new batteries should be out soon. Here's what they wrote:

"We are now in the testing phase of the new battery manufacturing. If all goes well and the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission approves the replacement battery, we will be able to start production before the end of the year. It's going to be a really nice battery and a dramatic improvement over the current battery pack in terms of quality and performance.

Please check our Recall webpage regularily for updates:

http://www.geomangear.com/index.php?main_page=recall "

Ziemas 12-21-10 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plutonix (Post 11946728)
...and it must be true, because it is on the internet.

I know UL certifies chargers and they are involved with an industry group in testing battery operated cell phones systems, but I dont know that they certify battery cells. And if they did, several cells in a pack with a PCB added would be an entirely new beast, I'm sure.

This is interesting.

Quote:

UL warns of a bicycle light with unauthorized UL power supply

Northbrook, Ill., - March 25, 2010 - Underwriters Laboratories (UL) is notifying retailers and consumers that the power supply provided with the bicycle lighting system identified below, bears an unauthorized UL Mark for the United States and Canada. This power supply has not been evaluated by UL to the appropriate standard for safety for the United States or Canada and is not authorized to bear the UL Mark. It is unknown if this power supply complies with United States or Canadian safety requirements.

Name of Product: Power Supply, Model GFP302-0512

Number of Units: Unknown

Manufacturer: Unknown

Date of Manufacture: Unknown

Identification: On the product:

LI-ION CHARGER


MODEL: GFP302-0512




INPUT: 100-240V 50/60Hz




OUTPUT: DC 8.5V/1800mA




MADE IN CHINA


LISTED

E241618

Sold at: Known to be sold at http://dealextreme.com/, and may have been sold by other retailers.

Photo of product:
http://www.ul.com/global/digitalasse...s/nr032510.jpg
http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/c...0325125400.xml

CrankyFranky 12-22-10 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziemas (Post 11964402)
This is interesting.

Hmmm... This is different charger than mine (purchased in ~ Sept 2009) which came with my MS900 = charger is labeled GM-084180. Seems that the high output LED marketplace is still evolving... neither my battery or charger have flamed out...yet. Awaiting recall notice for battery pack as soon as production gets sorted out.


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