Geo Update - Late April ETA for new packs
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Geo Update - Late April ETA for new packs
GeoMan's Recall section was updated today to indicate an ETA of April for new packs. It was mentioned elsewhere, but prolly deserves its own posting - electrons being chreap and all:
https://www.geomangear.com/index.php?...age=page&id=17
The FAQ has been updated in the last week or so to include a jab at the improved Nova packs.
Discuss....
https://www.geomangear.com/index.php?...age=page&id=17
The FAQ has been updated in the last week or so to include a jab at the improved Nova packs.
Discuss....
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I caught that phrase too. The factory may be able to manufacture them faster than they can come up with 'funding' to buy them. Even at 5,000 per WEEK, it could take 2 months to replace the 35,000 of them out there (here). And thats ignoring any demand from sales of new lightsets.
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I'd just as soon not get mine until October or so. I have already replaced it, and if I get it in April, it'll just sit unused all summer, which isn't good for it.
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Remind of that movie with Bruce Willis Armegeddon where that Russian space station astronaut said "Russia made, USA made, all made in China."
So we get new batteries, but still charge them with questionable non UL charger? Luckily for me, I received my charger from Batteryspace and the UL has a number listed on it and works well.
So we get new batteries, but still charge them with questionable non UL charger? Luckily for me, I received my charger from Batteryspace and the UL has a number listed on it and works well.
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Just a few things to note:
My guess is that he is bringing them over via Ocean and NOT Air due to costs and the large volumn that he needs to bring in.
The Chinese New years will shut down the factories soon for anywhere from 1 - 2 weeks.
Most likely he just placed his order and if so they would/could ship by 1st 0r 2nd week in March. Then Ocean and Land/Rail time to arrive at his location.
Oh yeah, the Nova battery comment was up there about 3 weeks ago.
My guess is that he is bringing them over via Ocean and NOT Air due to costs and the large volumn that he needs to bring in.
The Chinese New years will shut down the factories soon for anywhere from 1 - 2 weeks.
Most likely he just placed his order and if so they would/could ship by 1st 0r 2nd week in March. Then Ocean and Land/Rail time to arrive at his location.
Oh yeah, the Nova battery comment was up there about 3 weeks ago.
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I'd prefer CV/CC over UL approval. A charger can be good without UL approval, but CV/CC would be even better - or even just gentle like some Xtars can be. I dont know that their expert consultant included chargers in the evaluation. It is one of about 6 questions I'd like to see added to the FAQ (like will Totex be 'matching' cells for packs).
The episode does make me wonder if any sort of replacement (discounted or otherwise) would have come about purely as a result of the wide spread dismal performance of the packs without the incidents of fire as motivation. I'd like to think so, but with 35,000 packs in use a fair number of people will have gotten their money's worth out of them, but are still getting a replacement.
The episode does make me wonder if any sort of replacement (discounted or otherwise) would have come about purely as a result of the wide spread dismal performance of the packs without the incidents of fire as motivation. I'd like to think so, but with 35,000 packs in use a fair number of people will have gotten their money's worth out of them, but are still getting a replacement.
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My guess is that he is bringing them over via Ocean and NOT Air due to costs and the large volumn that he needs to bring in.
The Chinese New years will shut down the factories soon for anywhere from 1 - 2 weeks.
Most likely he just placed his order and if so they would/could ship by 1st 0r 2nd week in March. Then Ocean and Land/Rail time to arrive at his location.
Oh yeah, the Nova battery comment was up there about 3 weeks ago.
The Chinese New years will shut down the factories soon for anywhere from 1 - 2 weeks.
Most likely he just placed his order and if so they would/could ship by 1st 0r 2nd week in March. Then Ocean and Land/Rail time to arrive at his location.
Oh yeah, the Nova battery comment was up there about 3 weeks ago.
Our replacement packs will be U.S. designed, made, tested and approved. In addition, the US CPSC will also test and approve them before we send them out.
They will be exclusive GeoManGear battery packs and will be manufactured in California to US standards. We are expecting a high quality, reliable and durable battery pack from our manufacturer.
I must have missed it when they first added the swipe at Nova. I was watching because they had to have a comeback given that the Nova ads are geared to take advantage of the whole situation.
Last edited by Plutonix; 01-27-11 at 12:49 PM.
#10
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Thanks for the update. I haven't watched for it really, as I had figured I'd never actually get a battery.
Just an FYI, my Nova Bike Lights battery is working great since November 30 - 20 separate rides for 31 cumulative hrs. Still goes 3+ hrs on High mode, even when it hasn't been charged in nearly a week (3 different 6-day-long weather or holiday breaks in this period). It might die tomorrow, but so far it's fine.
I don't care where the MS battery is made or if it's certified as long as it works. I probably have a dozen electronic devices lacking UL certification that I've used over the years with no problem whatsoever. In fact the MS battery is the only dud I've got in a long time.
UL certification means nearly nothing to the consumer. Anybody can submit a perfect sample for testing/certification, then churn out whatever crap they can manage to sell afterwards by the thousands.
I could have used 4x$2 DX 18650 cells, a $7 DX charger, and a $15 2s2p 18650 cell holder and had more reliable battery than the 2 Geoman sold me. I've got over 400 recharge cycles on 6 of the cheapest DX cells you can buy, and they are all still going, although admittedly at reduced run time. Haven't had a dud cell yet of the 8 I bought 2 years ago. I suppose this simply illustrates the inherent difficulty of charging a 2s2p 18650 cell battery, or maybe MS should upgrade their cell quality to DX's high standards (dx=dealextreme).
Geoman's delay is almost certainly cost motivated, not a lack of battery expertise or manufacturing capacity. To me, 35,000 batteries sounds like a >$350,000 hit to Geoman. I'm surprised they didn't simply file bankruptcy and start over with a new business name and url.
Just an FYI, my Nova Bike Lights battery is working great since November 30 - 20 separate rides for 31 cumulative hrs. Still goes 3+ hrs on High mode, even when it hasn't been charged in nearly a week (3 different 6-day-long weather or holiday breaks in this period). It might die tomorrow, but so far it's fine.
I don't care where the MS battery is made or if it's certified as long as it works. I probably have a dozen electronic devices lacking UL certification that I've used over the years with no problem whatsoever. In fact the MS battery is the only dud I've got in a long time.
UL certification means nearly nothing to the consumer. Anybody can submit a perfect sample for testing/certification, then churn out whatever crap they can manage to sell afterwards by the thousands.
I could have used 4x$2 DX 18650 cells, a $7 DX charger, and a $15 2s2p 18650 cell holder and had more reliable battery than the 2 Geoman sold me. I've got over 400 recharge cycles on 6 of the cheapest DX cells you can buy, and they are all still going, although admittedly at reduced run time. Haven't had a dud cell yet of the 8 I bought 2 years ago. I suppose this simply illustrates the inherent difficulty of charging a 2s2p 18650 cell battery, or maybe MS should upgrade their cell quality to DX's high standards (dx=dealextreme).
Geoman's delay is almost certainly cost motivated, not a lack of battery expertise or manufacturing capacity. To me, 35,000 batteries sounds like a >$350,000 hit to Geoman. I'm surprised they didn't simply file bankruptcy and start over with a new business name and url.
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I could have used 4x$2 DX 18650 cells, a $7 DX charger, and a $15 2s2p 18650 cell holder and had more reliable battery than the 2 Geoman sold me. I've got over 400 recharge cycles on 6 of the cheapest DX cells you can buy, and they are all still going, although admittedly at reduced run time. Haven't had a dud cell yet of the 8 I bought 2 years ago. I suppose this simply illustrates the inherent difficulty of charging a 2s2p 18650 cell battery, or maybe MS should upgrade their cell quality to DX's high standards (dx=dealextreme).
What occurs is that during the charge cycle with an unbalance charger, the two cell in series are suppose to be charging at the same rate if they are balance. If two cell are not balance, their final discharged SOC can be different because of various reason such as variation in capacity or discharge rate. When the cell are being charged, the final charge voltage can be 8.4v when the charger stop charging and the indicator is green. However that does not mean the cell are balance. In reality, one cell final SOC might be 4.15v and the second cell might be 4.25v. This unbalance of the cell can be dangerous for the potential of fire because one cell is being overcharged and the other cell can be over discharge before the PCB protects the cell. Both cell can develop internal shorts and potential for thermal runaway during charge cycle.
One method to avoid this is to use quality cell that has better consistancy from QC, material and manufactoring process. I'm not really sure just how well 4 new 18650 cell from DX will be balance with each other. However I do have several batch of cell bought from DX on the same order and used them exclusively and cycle them with my P7 at work and I notice them to have a different rate of self discharge. If they were used in a 2S2P pack and charged in a standard non balancing charger, the problems would have been notice much earlier.
#12
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Thanks for the explanation.
I was not clear in my post. The "$7 DX charger" is an 18650 charger that charges only 1 or 2 cells on separate circuits. I would be charging cells individually, and installing and later removing from a 2s2p cell holder. I occasionally check them with meter to ensure charging OK. So the problem you described can be completely avoided by this simple process.
My point is that for a little work and ~30 bucks, you could ensure a reliable battery for your MS type light for probably hundreds of recharge cycles. And double the life for another 12 bucks for 4 additional cells. Worst thing that can happen is you throw away a cell once in a great while, at cost of 3 bucks.
I was not clear in my post. The "$7 DX charger" is an 18650 charger that charges only 1 or 2 cells on separate circuits. I would be charging cells individually, and installing and later removing from a 2s2p cell holder. I occasionally check them with meter to ensure charging OK. So the problem you described can be completely avoided by this simple process.
My point is that for a little work and ~30 bucks, you could ensure a reliable battery for your MS type light for probably hundreds of recharge cycles. And double the life for another 12 bucks for 4 additional cells. Worst thing that can happen is you throw away a cell once in a great while, at cost of 3 bucks.
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The nice thing with a DIY pack as you describe is the versatility. You can change to any grade of cell at anytime you like. The biggest plus is not to have to buy a new pack when the pack just drop out of your needed runtime. I almost made my own pack because the original pack was just barely enough. When my pack started to lose runtime, I found my self having to charge more often. A DIY pack would be simply to remove the battery and either balance them or replace them if needed.
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Regarding DIY packs, what type of enclosures are available to protect them from rain and drizzle? It seems to me that having a pack that's easy to open (for individual cell recharging), yet waterproof, is not likely to be cheap.
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You also can buy the holder as a 2S2P in a flat style in a shape of a wallet. Batteryspace sell some enclosure with screw on lid. You will have to drill a hole for the wire and use a groment.
#16
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The nice thing with a DIY pack as you describe is the versatility. You can change to any grade of cell at anytime you like. The biggest plus is not to have to buy a new pack when the pack just drop out of your needed runtime. I almost made my own pack because the original pack was just barely enough. When my pack started to lose runtime, I found my self having to charge more often. A DIY pack would be simply to remove the battery and either balance them or replace them if needed.
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Thanks for the explanation.
I was not clear in my post. The "$7 DX charger" is an 18650 charger that charges only 1 or 2 cells on separate circuits. I would be charging cells individually, and installing and later removing from a 2s2p cell holder. I occasionally check them with meter to ensure charging OK. So the problem you described can be completely avoided by this simple process.
My point is that for a little work and ~30 bucks, you could ensure a reliable battery for your MS type light for probably hundreds of recharge cycles. And double the life for another 12 bucks for 4 additional cells. Worst thing that can happen is you throw away a cell once in a great while, at cost of 3 bucks.
I was not clear in my post. The "$7 DX charger" is an 18650 charger that charges only 1 or 2 cells on separate circuits. I would be charging cells individually, and installing and later removing from a 2s2p cell holder. I occasionally check them with meter to ensure charging OK. So the problem you described can be completely avoided by this simple process.
My point is that for a little work and ~30 bucks, you could ensure a reliable battery for your MS type light for probably hundreds of recharge cycles. And double the life for another 12 bucks for 4 additional cells. Worst thing that can happen is you throw away a cell once in a great while, at cost of 3 bucks.
Since there is always 1 pair charged, I also slapped together a 2S1P mini pack in case I need a light but forgot to recharge; OR to carry for an extra 1.5 hrs of light for late night summer rides, centuries, etc. Even with 1 pack/holder, if needed you can just carry extra cells and pop them in if needed.
One other advantage in addition to what Colleen mentioned is that the pack is reusable. I have disconnects on the connector to the pack so that to recycle it from a MS pack to a XYZ pack, all I need to do is build a new adapter/connector. They quick disconnects as the strain relief has to be removed, but still easier than splicing or rewiring the pack or building a new one. I've done the same to the NiMH packs for the other bike so the same pack can run Dinottes, Nitehawk or old Planet bike halogen and it works well as long as they are the same voltage (or close).
The down sides are a) a bit of a hassle cell charging; I dont mind the inconvenience given longer service life the pack will have and lower risk of a pack incident.
b) waterproofing. You cant heat shrink a pack you open almost every day. I am not an all weather commuter I dont need much but I put some duct tape on the outside of the MS battery bag to ward off the odd splash. If it is bad like from snow melt, put the pack in a baggie (which is just about all the protection I need).
You can also make a sleeve from a 3.00" kiddie tube but then it wont in the MS (2 strap version) holder.
All in all you loose the convenience of 1 step pack charging, but gain a lot of versatility, (should get) longer service life from the cells and little chance of pack incident.
HTH
EDIT: Ok, there is one other negative - you need to be careful to insert the cells properly to avoid short circuit or reverse polarity. Mine are clearly marked and one has some colored PVC tape to mark the positive connectors.
Last edited by Plutonix; 01-28-11 at 01:32 PM.
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Hopefully each pack is NOT individually UL tested. UL testing is destructive. They mainly test to make sure things aren't unduly dangerous when abused, like having the cord ripped out of the wall repeatedly.
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There's couple of cheap options. You can get 2 x 2P holder, tape/glue them back to back and wire them up in series to get the 2S2P configuration. The shape will be similar to the original MS pack. Then you can put that in a water bottle with a large screw on lid or a stem bag. Home depot sold some Viewtainer container. They are clear cylindrical container with caps. You can slip the pack in that and seal the slot where the wires comes out.
You also can buy the holder as a 2S2P in a flat style in a shape of a wallet. Batteryspace sell some enclosure with screw on lid. You will have to drill a hole for the wire and use a groment.
You also can buy the holder as a 2S2P in a flat style in a shape of a wallet. Batteryspace sell some enclosure with screw on lid. You will have to drill a hole for the wire and use a groment.
The 2x2 "compact" version fits perfectly into the MS 2 strap bag. They will also easily slide into a 3" tube to fashion something more waterproof, but I like some of your ideas better since it will look less ghetto.
Here is the finished product:
The other side is just like this but with + and - reversed. The Tamiya is the connector disconnect and just to the left of that is a strain relief.
The top (just because I have the pic handy):
The resin is hard but easy to modify. Where the wires cross over to the other side, I cut a channel into the resin so they would be recessed to reduce something pulling them off. Same on the bottom where they make the serial connection. I also slathered some plati-dip over the contacts even though they are recessed so that if you set it down on a metal table Bad Things dont happen.
The connector is from a DX Y Connector - these are slightly more lightweight than the 1meter extension, but you get 2 per cable. Either lets you make the connector as long or short as needed.
Last edited by Plutonix; 01-28-11 at 03:12 PM.
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The batteryspace holders include PCBs and are for building a traditional pack used with a pack charger. Which is a good way to go - since the cells are removable, you can pack charge them 90% of the time, and open it up to 'balance' them with a cell charger once in a while.
I almost regret not having gone that way, but this way was cheaper (all I needed was the holders).
I almost regret not having gone that way, but this way was cheaper (all I needed was the holders).
Last edited by Plutonix; 01-28-11 at 02:50 PM.
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Thanks Plutonix, for those DIY pack pictures. The last time I was at LuminousDIY, I was not sure how their pack configuration was listed. Now that I see the terminal are user specific and solder to the way we want it, that became much clear. I got four spare Aw2900 and I think I will order a holder to get a 5800 mah pack. That just about right for my Titan and the extra load from my MS tailight.
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The batteryspace holders include PCBs and are for building a traditional pack used with a pack charger. Which is a good way to go - since the cells are removable, you can pack charge them 90% of the time, and open it up to 'balance' them with a cell charger once in a while.
I almost regret not having gone that way, but this way was cheaper (all I needed was the holders).
I almost regret not having gone that way, but this way was cheaper (all I needed was the holders).
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My pleasure. They come with the battery contact clips (8) all positive/springy for a snug hold, a small velco strap to keep the cells from popping out and a zip tie. Not sure what the zip was for, but I used it for strain relief.
The strap is not always needed - the MS bag is snug and holds them well enough. I used some Trustfire 2400s at first and they are 67mm long and the clips hold tight. I also used some Ultrafire unprotected which were about 63mm long which DID need the strap to keep them in place until you get it into the bag. I ended up using Panasonic 2900s which are protected but have a petite positive tip (semi flat top), so the fit is in between and actually the best.
Since you have a Pila, you should be able to get max service life from them.
The strap is not always needed - the MS bag is snug and holds them well enough. I used some Trustfire 2400s at first and they are 67mm long and the clips hold tight. I also used some Ultrafire unprotected which were about 63mm long which DID need the strap to keep them in place until you get it into the bag. I ended up using Panasonic 2900s which are protected but have a petite positive tip (semi flat top), so the fit is in between and actually the best.
Since you have a Pila, you should be able to get max service life from them.
Last edited by Plutonix; 01-28-11 at 03:14 PM.
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I figured that I could use magnets to take up any slack, but since the 2s2p is only available as 4x1 the scale tipped in favor of the Luminious. You could use 2 x 2s1p and wire them in parallel but they warn against that. Running the light would work, but charging it would be problematic.
I might give it a try if and when they get a 2s2p in 2x2 config.
Last edited by Plutonix; 01-28-11 at 03:22 PM.