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  1. #51
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    Hi Catman,
    How are you getting on with your comparison of cuesheet and locus? I have the same interest in finding the ultimate tool for biking on a gpx route with audio turn by turn announcements. So far I am finding that the combination of ridewithGPS and cuesheet is very powerful, with the ability to insert or edit bespoke turn instructions, and then transfer the route direct to the app without faffing about with file saves and transfers.

    But I get this intermittent problem whereby cuesheet fails to register that it has reached a turn. And it will not advance to the next turn instruction until it has issued the turn instruction. So then I have to stop and advance it manually. I have logged this on the app forum as a bug.

    I just wondered if you have had this experience and found any workaround(s)?
    Marmite

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by cguella View Post
    After extensive testing - Osmand is close but dangerously inaccurate when navigating. I programmed gpx cycling routes and it makes so many mistakes it is almost useless unless you can see the screen to correct your own course. What I really want is [accurate] turn by turn in my headphones for cycling. Osmand tries but misses and makes too many mistakes to be reliable. I am still on the hunt.
    How did your hunt go? I am homing in on cuesheet/rwgps as the best solution apart from a snag.

    Marmite

  3. #53
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    I tried CueSheet for a while. It works fine for short rides, but it regularly crashed on long rides or if I had to use the phone for some reason in the middle of the ride (like to answer a phone call). I could never figure out how to restart it at my current location (instead of the beginning of the route). Didn't want to use the official RWGPS app because they require a monthly fee for turn-by-turn navigation. Cell phone battery life is also a big issue on longer rides, even if I have the screen turned off for the whole ride and just listen to the audible navigation prompts.

    I finally bought a Garmin with navigation. It is extremely reliable and easy to use and prices on these have come down a lot in recent years. The new Garmin Edge Touring with maps and navigation starts at $250. I think the battery is rated for 16 hours on these things and you can probably extend that with a plug-in battery pack if you're doing super long distance rides.

  4. #54
    Senior Member 01 CAt Man Do's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarmiteSandwich View Post
    Hi Catman,
    How are you getting on with your comparison of cuesheet and locus? I have the same interest in finding the ultimate tool for biking on a gpx route with audio turn by turn announcements. So far I am finding that the combination of ridewithGPS and cuesheet is very powerful, with the ability to insert or edit bespoke turn instructions, and then transfer the route direct to the app without faffing about with file saves and transfers.

    But I get this intermittent problem whereby cuesheet fails to register that it has reached a turn. And it will not advance to the next turn instruction until it has issued the turn instruction. So then I have to stop and advance it manually. I have logged this on the app forum as a bug.

    I just wondered if you have had this experience and found any workaround(s)?
    Marmite
    The "Cuesheet" app is very easy to work with. Don't be surprised if you fail to hear a prompt, it happens sometimes. Depends on how much air is going by your ears, passing traffic, etc.
    Occasionally the app will be slow to prompt for a turn, it happens. The worst thing I had happen was that the app didn't prompt me when the "listed" road I was on made a hard turn from the current direction I was traveling. I didn't realize that there was a change because I was still going straight. ( in other words the road I was on changed names because the listed road turned right. Going straight had me continuing on a "new" road. Matter of fact I had this happen twice on one route. Very odd for roads to do this but with back-country roads strange things can happen.)

    I did write the Cuesheet people about this problem. While I'm not sure it has been addressed the updated version of Cuesheet Pro includes an "off route" prompt option ( if you choose to activate it ). I've already tried it and have it set for a couple hundred feet. Now if I go off route the app will continually prompt me that I am "off route". This works for me.

    I too have had the Cuesheet app crash. It happens but I've only had it happen maybe once. ( Hey, apps crash, it happens ) Of course if you turn the app off you have to restart the app. Unfortunately when you do this you have to manually advance the prompts to your current position. This you do by going to the written cue sheet part of the app. Press on the last turn cue and you should be fine. As long as you know what road you are on this shouldn't be too much of a problem.

    I haven't had much time to do actual rides with the Locus app because of the weather. Still, from what little time I've gotten to ride with it the app seems to work very well. It does all the things that "Cuesheet" does only it doesn't have a written cue sheet option. When I get a chance I want to do an "in route" start up to simulate an app crash so I can see if the prompts start up at your current location. I was hoping to do that this weekend but unless the rain stops that's not going to happen. ... My guess is that Locus will advance the prompts according to your current position. The Locus app *doesn't use road names for turns it just says turn ( or bear ) either left or right. ( depends on the file type you wish to use ) If you have questions you use the map. Locus has "off route" prompt options as well ( if you miss a turn ). Locus just takes more time to get used to but otherwise I may end up using it more than Cuesheet.

    Can't wait for the weather to get better so I can get a better sense of how both are going to perform when on more remote rides. Consider my feedback as a review in progress.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny99 View Post
    ... Didn't want to use the official RWGPS app because they require a monthly fee for turn-by-turn navigation.
    Wow! Are you sure about that? I haven't checked out the RWGPS app yet but for most navigation apps the turn by turn navigation feature is pretty much standard. I figured they might charge for the app but a subscription fee for a standard turn by turn navigation feature would be unconscionable. Can anyone else confirm this?
    Last edited by 01 CAt Man Do; 03-29-14 at 11:12 PM.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    ...
    Occasionally the app will be slow to prompt for a turn, it happens. The worst thing I had happen was that the app didn't prompt me when the "listed" road I was on made a hard turn from the current direction I was traveling.
    This is the problem I am struggling with. Cuesheet will not prompt for a turn until it has completed the last turn. As you continue riding away from the last turn point, the chances of that happening become less and less and it appears to hang. It is just waiting for the location to come up, which it didn't notice when you were there! Then I have to stop and manually advance the route to the next turn.

    Pity because it would be so powerful if it didn't have this glitch.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by johnny99 View Post
    Didn't want to use the official RWGPS app because they require a monthly fee for turn-by-turn navigation.
    Wow! Are you sure about that? I haven't checked out the RWGPS app yet but for most navigation apps the turn by turn navigation feature is pretty much standard. I figured they might charge for the app but a subscription fee for a standard turn by turn navigation feature would be unconscionable. Can anyone else confirm this?
    The best Android bike navigation and logging app

    "Live logging & route navigation" are provided for "Basic and Premium members" (subscriptions).

    "Unconscionable" is a bit extreme. If the feature is "pretty much standard" (which seems to be arguable for being available/reliable for uploaded routes), then people can use the alternatives. Since the features that are provided free by the ridewithgps site are useful by themselves, it's not "unconscionable" they don't provide other features for free.
    Last edited by njkayaker; 03-30-14 at 11:45 AM.

  7. #57
    Senior Member 01 CAt Man Do's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    The best Android bike navigation and logging app

    "Live logging & route navigation" are provided for "Basic and Premium members" (subscriptions).

    "Unconscionable" is a bit extreme. If the feature is "pretty much standard" (which seems to be arguable for being available/reliable for uploaded routes), then people can use the alternatives. Since the features that are provided free by the ridewithgps site are useful by themselves, it's not "unconscionable" they don't provide other features for free.
    Fine, substitute "unexpectedly odd" for "unconscionable". I figured since RWGPS took the time to offer their own mobile app that it would at least have the same "standard" features that were offered by "CueSheet" which was basically geared to work with RWGPS. ( CueSheet Pro ; one time fee but not free ) gives voice prompts.) By standard features I mean something that comes with the app ( free or not ) that doesn't require the need for a "monthly" subscription fee. I don't mind paying a "one time" fee for an app if it is within reason but I don't need a monthly subscription to navigate a route. Hopefully I'm not misunderstanding what is actually being offered by RWGPS. At some point I'll look more closely into the RWGPS app to see what it takes to get voice prompts. Right now I'm just banging my head on the wall waiting for all the rain/snow mix to stop so I can get some rides in.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    Fine, substitute "unexpectedly odd" for "unconscionable". I figured since RWGPS took the time to offer their own mobile app that it would at least have the same "standard" features that were offered by "CueSheet" which was basically geared to work with RWGPS. ( CueSheet Pro ; one time fee but not free ) gives voice prompts.) By standard features I mean something that comes with the app ( free or not ) that doesn't require the need for a "monthly" subscription fee. I don't mind paying a "one time" fee for an app if it is within reason but I don't need a monthly subscription to navigate a route. Hopefully I'm not misunderstanding what is actually being offered by RWGPS. At some point I'll look more closely into the RWGPS app to see what it takes to get voice prompts. Right now I'm just banging my head on the wall waiting for all the rain/snow mix to stop so I can get some rides in.
    That is more reasonable. But it might not be very odd at all.

    Maybe, ridewithgps is doing cuesheet a favor by not offering the same deal.

    People are still trying to figure out how to make some profit on apps that people really don't want to spend any money on. (The cuesheet guy seems to be having some difficulty working it out.)

    It might not make sense to pay a subscription just for turn-by-turn navigation (though, there are quite a few car navigation apps that are subscription-based).

    If there are real alternatives (it's not clear if there are or whether ridewithgps's works well enough), then no one would pay ridewithgps for just that. Thus, is seems fairly apparent that ridewithgps sees this feature as part of what makes a subscription worth while.
    Last edited by njkayaker; 03-30-14 at 10:17 PM.

  9. #59
    Senior Member 01 CAt Man Do's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    That is more reasonable. But it might not be very odd at all.

    Maybe, ridewithgps is doing cuesheet a favor by not offering the same deal.

    People are still trying to figure out how to make some profit on apps that people really don't want to spend any money on. (The cuesheet guy seems to be having some difficulty working it out.)

    It might not make sense to pay a subscription just for turn-by-turn navigation (though, there are quite a few car navigation apps that are subscription-based).

    If there are real alternatives (it's not clear if there are or whether ridewithgps's works well enough), then no one would pay ridewithgps for just that. Thus, is seems fairly apparent that ridewithgps sees this feature as part of what makes a subscription worth while.
    Hmmm....you make some good points. I just think RWGPS would of been smarter if they just did what Cuesheet did and offer some upgraded features with an affordable "pay for" app that required only a one time fee. After that they could still offer a subscription service with the more premium features. Just saying. Not to mention who's to say that if the Google people saw how well the RWGPS and other mapping services are doing that they may choose to get into the act and offer a more expanded version of Google Map/navigation. If that were to happen no doubt in my mind that RWGPS would have a hard time competing.

    As for other app developers and marketers; I think there is good money in app development. Market an app that is useful and cheap and people will buy. Smart phones themselves are becoming more popular and more inexpensive. The more people who buy S-phones the more money the app developers make. On the flip side, if the developers get too greedy by asking too much for their "pay for" apps and subscriptions, no doubt in my mind that the potential buyers will seek other alternatives. Need I say when it comes to apps there are lots of choices.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    I just think RWGPS would of been smarter if they just did what Cuesheet did and offer some upgraded features with an affordable "pay for" app that required only a one time fee. After that they could still offer a subscription service with the more premium features. Just saying.
    Entertain the notion that ridewithgps might know (better than you or I) what they are doing.

    By not selling the app, ridewithgps avoids having to compete with cheap or free apps. While it, by itself, might not be driving a lot of people to subscribe, it does enhance the value of subscriptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    Not to mention who's to say that if the Google people saw how well the RWGPS and other mapping services are doing that they may choose to get into the act and offer a more expanded version of Google Map/navigation. If that were to happen no doubt in my mind that RWGPS would have a hard time competing.
    It's a niche business. That it's (presumably) worth while for ridewithgps to try to make a business out of it, it might not be worth it for google at all.

    Keep in mind that the ridewithgps app is very new. If they charged for it, then they will be obligated to fix problems quickly. Subscribers who already see a value in their subscriptions without the app might be a bit more tolerant of "rough edges" in a new product. It's not like established programs have managed to work out the kinks. (Heck, Garmin has some issues doing it!)

    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    As for other app developers and marketers; I think there is good money in app development. Market an app that is useful and cheap and people will buy.
    Some apps might make money. A lot of them don't seem to at all. (Things that I've read about it seem to support that.)

    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    Smart phones themselves are becoming more popular and more inexpensive. The more people who buy S-phones the more money the app developers make.
    They have to buy apps. Android users seem to, more-often that iOS users, want free.

    There are a lot of mapping programs. Many of them seem to require purchasing to be able to tell how well they work.

    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    On the flip side, if the developers get too greedy by asking too much for their "pay for" apps and subscriptions, no doubt in my mind that the potential buyers will seek other alternatives. Need I say when it comes to apps there are lots of choices.
    Developers being "too greedy" is an odd comment (I have no idea what you are basing that on).

    People will always "seek other alternatives", especially, in a market where the generally-accepted "fair" price is "free". Companies might do better if they avoided a race to the bottom.
    Last edited by njkayaker; 03-31-14 at 09:58 AM.

  11. #61
    Senior Member 01 CAt Man Do's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    Entertain the notion that ridewithgps might know (better than you or I) what they are doing....
    Hey, I'm just giving an opinion. How someone chooses to run their own business is up to them. My point of view ( like others ) is from the buyers point of view. As a buyer I don't mind buying something "IF" it is affordable and not going to be a PITA to deal with.

    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    ...It's a niche business. That it's (presumably) worth while for ridewithgps to try to make a business out of it, it might not be worth it for google at all...
    I don't know, they already have free map and navigation apps that they provide to the Android market. How hard would it be for them to groom those apps to be a little more useful?


    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    ...Android users seem to, more-often that iOS users, want free...
    I consider that an odd thing to say. My opinion is that in general people want what they want. I don't think the choice of what phone they use is going to make them more or less prone to spend more or less money. I would think the deciding factor would be more along the lines of "how much extra money is burning a hole in their pockets".

    IMO, everyone likes free. Personally, that includes me but on the other hand I don't mind buying something if the price is reasonable and the product is something I think I might use on a regular basis. On the other hand I don't like things that require subscriptions.


    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    ...Developers being "too greedy" is an odd comment (I have no idea what you are basing that on).
    I said "IF" they are too greedy. This is a hypothetical based on the opinion that there are lots of people ( or corporate entities ) selling products ( or services ) that are over-priced. Luckily for us po folk we can usually find some reasonable options if we look hard enough.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    Hey, I'm just giving an opinion.
    No one is really interested in opinions that are wrong (I have no idea whether you are wrong or not).

    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    How someone chooses to run their own business is up to them. My point of view ( like others ) is from the buyers point of view. As a buyer I don't mind buying something "IF" it is affordable and not going to be a PITA to deal with.
    A business requires sellers and buyers. Looking at it from the "buyer's point of view" is incomplete. To be successful, they only have to appeal to some buyers (not all of them; they won't be able to satisfy everybody anyway).

    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    I just think RWGPS would of been smarter...
    The fact that you aren't a buyer for their product doesn't mean how they choose to run their business is less smart. If their subscription model works, then increasing the value of the subscription may be "smarter".

    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    I don't know, they already have free map and navigation apps that they provide to the Android market. How hard would it be for them to groom those apps to be a little more useful?
    Looking at the real world, much harder than you think! If it was easy, it would have been done already.

    I suspect that many developers write apps either as a learning experience or as an idea to become "rich" and find-out that the income-for-effort is poor.

    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    I consider that an odd thing to say. My opinion is that in general people want what they want. I don't think the choice of what phone they use is going to make them more or less prone to spend more or less money. I would think the deciding factor would be more along the lines of "how much extra money is burning a hole in their pockets".
    It's fairly well-known that iOS apps are more profitable than Android.

    Android overtakes iOS for app downloads, but Apple's platform still more lucrative for developers | Technology | theguardian.com

    iOS/Android app revenue gap narrows, but iOS still miles ahead | 9to5Mac

    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    IMO, everyone likes free. Personally, that includes me but on the other hand I don't mind buying something if the price is reasonable and the product is something I think I might use on a regular basis. On the other hand I don't like things that require subscriptions.
    Every one likes free (obvious). The issue is that (too many) people expect free.

    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    I said "IF" they are too greedy. This is a hypothetical based on the opinion that there are lots of people ( or corporate entities ) selling products ( or services ) that are over-priced. Luckily for us po folk we can usually find some reasonable options if we look hard enough.
    If they aren't greedy, then who cares about the hypothetical? You haven't made a convincing argument that there are "lots" of actually "greedy" people.

    If they are overpriced, then the marketplace will say so. People aren't required to choose a price that the market will pay (and it doesn't necessarily mean they are being "greedy" if they don't choose to sell something at a price you are willing to pay). If a business has buyers for their product, they aren't necessarily being "greedy" if there exist people who find the product too expensive.
    Last edited by njkayaker; 03-31-14 at 02:27 PM.

  13. #63
    Senior Member 01 CAt Man Do's Avatar
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    You know after reading the above ( ^^ ) post, I realize I could go on quite a bit by continuing with my comments, however I don't think this is the place for what could become a rather prolonged discussion. I think it best at this point to just let the subject of app marketing die and get back to the original OP subject matter. Arguing too long over such petty issues is not really worth the time. Time to call it quits.

    Originally Posted by MarmiteSandwich

    This is the problem I am struggling with. Cuesheet will not prompt for a turn until it has completed the last turn. As you continue riding away from the last turn point, the chances of that happening become less and less and it appears to hang. It is just waiting for the location to come up, which it didn't notice when you were there! Then I have to stop and manually advance the route to the next turn.

    Pity because it would be so powerful if it didn't have this glitch.
    Just give it some time. Once you get used to working with it you might find it working better. I used to think that the app was missing turns myself until I realized ( after further use ) that I was indeed getting the prompt but I wasn't hearing it because I inadvertently turned the volume down while playing with the buttons. ( it happens ) or cars were driving by just when the prompt came ( oh yeah, that happens too ).

    Since I upgraded to the newest edition of Cuesheet Pro ( during winter ) I haven't had too many opportunities to test it out. I look forward to giving it more of a rundown once the weather gets a little warmer. If I start having problems with it I'll be sure to speak up.

    In the mean time I have yet to have a chance to give the Locus ( free ) app a fair shake-down. This weekend is suppose to be in the 60's. If the weather cooperates I should be able to get a normal road ride in. If so I should be able to test both apps and see how well they work when rebooted while on the route. Crossing my fingers for good weather.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    Arguing too long over such petty issues is not really worth the time. Time to call it quits.
    Calling something company does that you don't happen to like "not smart" really is petty.

    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    Just give it some time. Once you get used to working with it you might find it working better. I used to think that the app was missing turns myself until I realized ( after further use ) that I was indeed getting the prompt but I wasn't hearing it because I inadvertently turned the volume down while playing with the buttons. ( it happens ) or cars were driving by just when the prompt came ( oh yeah, that happens too ).

    Since I upgraded to the newest edition of Cuesheet Pro ( during winter ) I haven't had too many opportunities to test it out. I look forward to giving it more of a rundown once the weather gets a little warmer. If I start having problems with it I'll be sure to speak up.
    The cuesheet guy rides, which means he should have a good idea how such a program would be used. He also seems to be interested in getting it to work. It's a work-in-progress (we'll have to be patient).

    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    In the mean time I have yet to have a chance to give the Locus ( free ) app a fair shake-down. This weekend is suppose to be in the 60's. If the weather cooperates I should be able to get a normal road ride in. If so I should be able to test both apps and see how well they work when rebooted while on the route. Crossing my fingers for good weather.
    The locus app requires internet connectivity to compute routes (it appears to use mapquest). If you navigate using an imported track as a base, you get turns but no street names (they are all "unknown street"). This feature is listed as "beta" (that it supports it somewhat is encouraging). (Note that I'm using the free version).
    Last edited by njkayaker; 04-01-14 at 02:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    Just give it some time. Once you get used to working with it you might find it working better. I used to think that the app was missing turns myself until I realized ( after further use ) that I was indeed getting the prompt but I wasn't hearing it because I inadvertently turned the volume down while playing with the buttons. ( it happens ) or cars were driving by just when the prompt came ( oh yeah, that happens too ).
    I have done a bit of testing recently with both CueSheet and Locus, both paid versions. I use earbuds plugged into my Samsung phone and I hear any navigation commands which get issued.

    Cuesheet is the best by far, except for the fact that it occasionally misses a turn. When that happens it never catches up unless you stop and advance the app by one turn. For me this is a deal breaker, because it happens about every 5 or 6 turns and that makes it unreliable. The developer admitted that this happens in my post to his forum.

    Locus is similar to OsmAnd in that it issues turn instructions based on the shape of the gpx route you give it. So you get a turn instruction every time your road goes round a corner, but not when you reach a fork in the road. This also makes it unreliable. Neither Cuesheet nor Locus is very good at dealing with being off the route. OsmAnd at least tells you to make a u-turn. For my upcoming 3 day cross-country trip, I am seriously thinking of using Google maps, which is actually quite good at finding cycle routes. Only thing is, you never know quite what route you are going to get, and you need a certain amount of connectivity, which could be tricky out in the country.

    The search continues...

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    A few points I can add for locus is you can skip ahead to your nearest waypoint by location in navigation mode. Just hit the big navigation directions box and hit nearest point.

    It has offline route calculation designed for cycling by a third party app called brouter. I can dig up how if needed but I'd have to Google it again.

    I find the beta offline navigation usable enough for me. I use the high amount of directions option. I do need to look at the map at times to clarify the exact route but I find that completely typical as I get lost using only voice directions with Google navigation when driving for example. I don't have an issue with a fork in the road though.

    There is also the options for a repeated beep or voice alert for going off route with a guidance line to nearest part of track. It shows distance and angle. Or voice can also read the distance and direction by hours on a clock. I do turn off auto route recalculation though as it just creates an entire new route to your destination I find. At least in offline gpx navigation that I use.

    Google navigation is ok if you've got internet. But beware it's routes like to give main roads precedence for speed. I'd often have to take the footpath on it's routes.
    Last edited by irrelevantapple; 04-02-14 at 05:21 PM.

  17. #67
    Senior Member 01 CAt Man Do's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarmiteSandwich View Post
    I have done a bit of testing recently with both CueSheet and Locus, both paid versions. I use earbuds plugged into my Samsung phone and I hear any navigation commands which get issued.

    Cuesheet is the best by far, except for the fact that it occasionally misses a turn. When that happens it never catches up unless you stop and advance the app by one turn. For me this is a deal breaker, because it happens about every 5 or 6 turns and that makes it unreliable. The developer admitted that this happens in my post to his forum.
    When things aren't working you have to consider all possibilities. In your case you have some major problems. I would consider deleting the route you downloaded and redrawing it again on whatever site you used to create the file. Sometimes it is the file that is bad ( or the download didn't go right ). I had a glitch in one of my routes and had to go back and redraw a section of the route. Oddly it took several times to get it right because every time I redrew it the same thing happened. Finally I extended the point a little further on the map and then the glitch went away. Sometimes rebooting the phone helps. I've had apps go flaky on me before and some times you just have to reboot. Finally, if none of my suggestions work you might get with the developer and see if you can reload the app. If nothing else works perhaps that will.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarmiteSandwich View Post
    ..Locus is similar to OsmAnd in that it issues turn instructions based on the shape of the gpx route you give it. So you get a turn instruction every time your road goes round a corner, but not when you reach a fork in the road. This also makes it unreliable. Neither Cuesheet nor Locus is very good at dealing with being off the route...
    When I use a gpx route on Locus I get prompts for turns AND for bearing either right or left. Then again I haven't had a chance yet to test it on roads ( only paved bike trails ) so I don't know yet how it will behave with, "forks in the road". Cuesheet on the other hand I had problems with when approaching certain forks. Since downloading the most recent version of Cuesheet I haven't had a chance yet to give it an extended test to see if there are improvements or if it's more buggy than before. I will say that the "off route" warning for the updated Cuesheet did work when I tried it. Whether it will work every time I go off route though remains to be seen.

    I just rechecked my "Out of track" Locus setting. I have mine set for "200 ft." and to prompt me every 15 seconds with a "beep" until I'm back on track. I haven't tried this feature on Locus yet but I'm confident it will work. I may get a chance to ride tomorrow before going to work as long as the predicted rain doesn't show up early ( or I don't get an unexpected, "you need to come in early" phone call. ) Anyway, if things go right I'll set-up a mini-route and get a quick ride in so I can do some more tests.
    Last edited by 01 CAt Man Do; 04-03-14 at 12:48 AM.

  18. #68
    Senior Member 01 CAt Man Do's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by irrelevantapple View Post
    A few points I can add for locus is you can skip ahead to your nearest waypoint by location in navigation mode. Just hit the big navigation directions box and hit nearest point.

    It has offline route calculation designed for cycling by a third party app called brouter. I can dig up how if needed but I'd have to Google it again...
    I saw the setting to select "brouter". If I select that do I need to download brouter first as a separate app?

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    So the info and guides are a little scattered since originally brouter just calculated between two defined favourite locations. That's how it was designed for osmand and found compatability with locus. Since it's integrated it's easier now. I'll just paste the old installation instructions and explain what else. downloads are in the offline section of http://brensche.de/brouter/

    Installing the BRouter App
    --------------------------
    Download the file "brouter_x_x.zip" and unpack in a directory "brouter" on the SD-Card of your Android Device. Most convenient is to attach the device (or just the sd-card) to a desktop-computer and do the unpacking there, but doing that on the device itself is also possible, provided you know the appropriate tools.

    Install the BRouter-App by installing the APK-File "BRouter.apk".
    For instructions how to install from an APK (in contrast to installing from Google Play), search the internet for tips.
    You may need to change system configuration, some setting like "Applications->Unknown sources" depending on Android version.

    The BRouter App asks for permissions to access the SD-Card and to de-activate the screen saver. Being an offline app, it does NOT ask for internet access. The drawback is that you have to install the additional resources manually.


    BRouter's SD-Card Directory Structure
    -------------------------------------
    BRouter guesses a reasonable sd-card base directory and on first start prompts you for a base directory with it's guess as a default. You should choose the same base directory that is used by your map-tool.
    On first start, BRouter will create a "brouter" subdirectory relative to that base-directory if it's not already there (becaused you created it by unpacking the zip-file, see above)
    If later on you want to change the base directory, you can delete or rename the 'brouter' subfolder, so it will prompt again for a base directory. You should choose the same base directory that is used by your map-tool (OsmAnd or Locus).

    So you may end up with e.g. the following directory structure
    (depending on base dir):

    /mnt/sdcard/brouter
    /mnt/sdcard/brouter/segments2 <- put routing data files (*.rd5) here
    /mnt/sdcard/brouter/profiles2 <- put lookup-table and routing profiles here
    /mnt/sdcard/brouter/profiles2/lookups.dat
    /mnt/sdcard/brouter/profiles2/trekking.brf
    /mnt/sdcard/Locus <- Locus's sd-card dir
    /mnt/sdcard/Locus/mapitems <- Locus's track storage

    The minimum files BRouter needs to work are e.g.
    /mnt/sdcard/brouter/segments2/E5_N45.rd5

    But of course you can put as many routing data filesand routing profiles as you like.

    Get the profiles (*.brf) and the lookup.dat from the zip-file or from:
    <!-- m -->Index of /brouter/profiles2<!-- m -->

    And the routing data files from:
    <!-- m -->Index of /brouter/segments2<!-- m -->

    Routing data files are organised as 5*5 degree files, with the Filename containing the south-west corner of the square, which means:
    - You want to route near West48/North37 -> get W50_N35.rd5
    - You want to route near East7/North47 -> get E5_N45.rd5

    From the above link you find routing data for all places in the world where OSM data is available.


    Open brouter app. Choose the profile safety or fastbike or trekking for cycling, personally I use safety. The profile shortest seems to default for walking in server mode. Press server mode. Depending on the profile different service modes are defaulted, so just press ok. Now you can select brouter in locus navigation settings. I only use brouter for cycling directions but the other profiles seem ok if you want to try. You probably have to change the profile in brouter rather than just selecting in locus though.

    Personally I find it the most considerate and genuinely effective to avoiding main roads out of everything I've tried when on safety mode. Of the others I've tried; all of locus's online services, osmands offline cycling routing and Google maps cycling. It's non safe profile takes main roads like the less considerate services.

    It's probably too effective at avoiding main roads some times in safety mode so the routes can be fairly longer, but I guess that's what it takes to do what it does. It always pays to check the route before you take off to have an idea and to take a faster shortcut it ignored if you want. Which is fairly easy enough to pull off with openandromaps for cycling specificity and locus's off track guide feature.
    Last edited by irrelevantapple; 04-03-14 at 04:50 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarmiteSandwich View Post
    For my upcoming 3 day cross-country trip, I am seriously thinking of using Google maps, which is actually quite good at finding cycle routes. Only thing is, you never know quite what route you are going to get, and you need a certain amount of connectivity, which could be tricky out in the country.

    The search continues...
    oh just remembered Google does offer alternate routes but they're more for differing the bearing of the route. It will still sometimes choose bad roads or not give better alternatives. Also you can't export it's routes or import to it for navigation.

  21. #71
    Senior Member 01 CAt Man Do's Avatar
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    Got a chance to do a little combo road/bike path loop today ( using a RWGPS route ) to test out more of the locus app features. Navigation through circles and forks had no problem. I did notice some interesting things. It's my opinion that more often than not when there are glitches in the route that the problem lies with the map file and not the navigation app.

    Today while doing my route I suddenly noticed that the app had me doing a U-turn...which was completely erroneous. Rather than trying to figure it out I just continue straight and on with the planned route. Interestingly, when I came to the next turn the locus app supplied the correct prompt for the turn.
    After that there were no navigation errors.

    Once again these problems are likely caused when mapping the route. If you are using both roads and trails you have to be real careful as sometimes you can't tell when the map is "doubling back". Next time I'll be sure to read the written cue sheet to make sure that doesn't happen again. Real easy to correct mistakes in the route map if you know about it.

    I was a little disappointed that the "off track" notification didn't seem to work. After I got home I took a look at the settings and changed some things so maybe next time it will work. Other that that all the prompts came as expected. I will note that when I went ( purposefully ) off track I did get the "blue arrow line" on the map indicating I was off route ( blue line points toward the direction you need to go ) . I do remember setting that up a while back so maybe when that is initialized the verbal prompts don't work, I don't know. I'll figure it out before the next ride. For me the verbal "off track" warning is paramount because I don't always ride with the screen on.
    Last edited by 01 CAt Man Do; 04-06-14 at 05:55 PM.

  22. #72
    Senior Member 01 CAt Man Do's Avatar
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    Just a quick follow up to my last post: I finally did get the "off track" audible warning to work using the locus app. Apparently the verbal prompt works in concert with the "blue arrow" directional warning I mentioned before. When I tested it a couple days ago when I went off track the verbal warning was giving me an "o'clock" warning the further I traveled off track. Not what I was expecting but it works. When the angle changed the warning would up date ( ie....off track two O'clock....off track 5 O'clock...etc.

    I'm fairly sure the locus app is not going to miss turns as the app makes a clear announcement when there is any kind of change of direction ( even when on the same road and it is just a slight bend in the road ). If it's just a slight bend in the road the prompt will indicate "bear" *left ( or right ) in such and such distance. The real problem is just hearing the prompts. The day I rode it was really windy and with all the wind going past my ears I had a real hard time hearing all the prompts. Looks like I really do need a BT device for those windy days. After searching for new BT devices I have a couple options I might use but haven't decided on a speaker or an upgraded ear-bud.

  23. #73
    Senior Member 01 CAt Man Do's Avatar
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    Continued from my last post; Been a while since since I last posted. Used the Locus app again today on a longer route. Locus never missed a turn. Strangely I did get turned around at one point and went off route. The off route warnings kicked in and help straighten me out. Turned out it wasn't the apps fault. When I got home I checked the RWGPS route details and found out I had inadvertently routed through some local bike paths and missed that fact when I was riding through the area ( it was dark at the time ) Once back on track I was good to go.

    When I got home I had ridden for three hours. My phone ( Motorola Razor XT912 ) still had 50% of it's run time. I looked at the distribution of power on my phone and it listed the Locus app as using 46% while the screen used about 42%. I found that interesting because I had let the screen on for about half of the ride. If I had used the screen map less the phone would of used less power. Locus never misses a turn or change of direction. In a section with lots of turns it will prompt you to death. That said sometimes it can be confusing if the turns are all ( immediately ) one after the other and you aren't listening closely. Thankfully you always have the screen map when needed to eliminate any questions.

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