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  1. #1
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    Philips Saferide Dynamo LED? Not clear...

    Presumably many of those interested in dynamo LED lighting are familiar with the review page by Wouter H. Scholten. On that page the blasts the IQ Cyo lamp with the near illumination, while touts the new Philips Saferide LED dynamo lamp.

    I have been riding with IQ Cyo for over 2 years now and have been very happy, but strong claims of superiority of another lamp arose my curiosity. Well, the Saferide arrived yesterday and I have, so far, been able to compare the Cyo and Saferide when powering them either in parallel or separately from a 6V battery. To sum up, so far I am not impressed by Saferide.

    One aspect of the beam that I find essential for city riding is a tall column of illumination provided by a lamp, with intensity changing monotonically. The main patch provide by Saferide is shorter than for Cyo. There is a gap underneath the main patch and then the illumination recovers a bit. Otherwise, the beam of Saferide is much worse defined than for Cyo. There is plenty of light scattered randomly to the sides in the form of patches and combs. In my experience, this may, on one hand, be quite distracting, and, on the other may help improving side visibility. Finally, curiously within the main illumination area Saferide is dimmer than Cyo. Obviously, 6V battery is not meant to be the main source for those lamps, but at least under some power conditions Saferide turns out to be dimmer. The width and general outline of the main illumination are appears similar for Saferide and Cyo apart from this bottom of the beam issue.

    Technically, Saferide utilizes two LEDs while Cyo one. The front of Saferide is completely transparent, while Cyo's is partly transparent and partly turned into a reflector. At least with the power I have been utilizing, the Cyo's standlight is well brighter that that of Saferide.

    My comparison of lamps in practical use may need to wait a bit as I need to concentrate first on an unrelated electric power issue on my bike.

  2. #2
    Zoom zoom zoom zoom bonk znomit's Avatar
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    I cannot see a reason to criticize the Cyo when I look at the beam shots on his site(or when I ride with mine). It really has me baffled.

  3. #3
    Velocommuter Commando Sirrus Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by znomit View Post
    I cannot see a reason to criticize the Cyo when I look at the beam shots on his site(or when I ride with mine). It really has me baffled.

    +1 Reads to me like a nit-pick or he doesn't understand shaped beams.
    Riding 19 Years of Specialized Sirrus Tradition.
    Live in Houston? Come to http://bicyclecommutehouston.blogspot.com/
    1988 Specialized Sirrus, 1989 Alpine Monitor Pass MTB, 2007 Specialized Sirrus 700C hybrid, 2007 Schwinn Town & Country trike, 1970 "Resto-Improved" Raleigh 20, 1970 "WIP" Raleigh 20, and 1980 "WIP" Schwinn Town & Country trike

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirrus Rider View Post
    +1 Reads to me like a nit-pick or he doesn't understand shaped beams.
    Yeah right! Give me a break and read my website... I'm not impressed with a bunch of stupid comments on this website, and is one of the reasons why I only bother on a few others where people don't talk out of their xxx.

    As to:

    I have been riding with IQ Cyo for over 2 years now and have been very happy, but strong claims of superiority of another lamp arose my curiosity.
    Did you use the Cyo-Nahfeld? Did you read why the Cyo-Nahfeld's beam is bad? Did you check that others have the same conclusion? Did you ready my analysis that gives arguments why a very strict trapezium shaped beam is bad? No? Well, read it all again...

    Edit: Just to be clear, the Philips SLD is not going to be a huge improvement on the Cyo sport, just as it's not an improvement on the Edelux. It's better in construction and doesn't look as cheapo plasticy. Each lamp has plus and minus points, as I said in my review of the SLD. The Cyo-Nahfeld on the other hand is complete rubbish compared to the Edelux, Philips SLD, and Cyo sport.
    Last edited by swhs; 05-01-11 at 07:43 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2_i View Post
    Presumably many of those interested in dynamo LED lighting are familiar with the review page by Wouter H. Scholten. On that page the blasts the IQ Cyo lamp with the near illumination, while touts the new Philips Saferide LED dynamo lamp.

    I have been riding with IQ Cyo for over 2 years now and have been very happy, but strong claims of superiority of another lamp arose my curiosity. Well, the Saferide arrived yesterday and I have, so far, been able to compare the Cyo and Saferide when powering them either in parallel or separately from a 6V battery. To sum up, so far I am not impressed by Saferide.

    Obviously, 6V battery is not meant to be the main source for those lamps, but at least under some power conditions Saferide turns out to be dimmer.
    You've got to be kidding me! Powering them from a 6V battery? You don't know that these lamps contain circuitry that only works properly with alternating current?

    Let me tell you: The Philips SLD is as least as bright as the Edelux, and the Edelux is brighter than the Cyo.

    So, you use a lamp for dynamo on a battery, you don't say whether you use a Cyo-sport (probably) or a Cyo Nahfeld (which is much dimmer and has a really bad beamshape), and then you say you're not impressed?

    Well, you know what: I am not impressed with your posting! I think it's clear posting here is a complete waste of time with people making ridiculous comments and ridiculous assertions saying I don't know what I'm talking about etc. Anyone who says that is nuts!

    And under 'etc.' I include that ridiculous assertion that I'm biased because I don't like the SON28. Don't these people who make these comments read? The reasons why I don't like them are clear. That others don't care about vibrations in the handlebar is their problem. Many people do, and you know what, they get told rubbish that they should tighten their skewer and then it will go away. You know something else: That's what Peter White tried to convince me of. he even said that people who complain of vibrations are told to tighten the skewer and then the problem goes away. Complete and utter BS. They try and probably give up (or convince themselves that there is no more problem, and having spent so much money on a SON28, that's quite possible) because tightening the skewer has nothing to do with the problem. Also, it is disgraceful that Peter White tries to convince people of this. Hasn't he done any tests himself?
    Last edited by swhs; 05-01-11 at 07:46 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by znomit View Post
    I cannot see a reason to criticize the Cyo when I look at the beam shots on his site(or when I ride with mine). It really has me baffled.
    About this I can only say this:
    -(added in edit) You don't say if you use the Cyo-sport or Cyo-Nahfeld.

    - You also haven't properly read the text. The beamshots do NOT tell the whole story due to dynamic range limitations. More on this can be found in my review of the E3 pro StVZO where I also discuss the problem of perspective which results in beamshots of the E3 pro StVZO) looking extremely good, brighter even than the Edelux and Philips SLD, but in reality it is not. Not at slightly longer distances at least (say beyond 10-15 m). I know because I rode with all of them and switched while riding.

  7. #7
    Zoom zoom zoom zoom bonk znomit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swhs View Post
    About this I can only say this:
    -(added in edit) You don't say if you use the Cyo-sport or Cyo-Nahfeld.
    I run the Lumotec IQ Cyo senso plus. Its the 60 lux version so I assume its the sport. I love it.

  8. #8
    RJC
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    I have one of the Philips 4xAA battery powered lights which I bought from rose.de in March. Like others have found it has the issue of the battery power meter being a bit pessimistic about the battery capacity.
    It hasn't done many miles as the intended bike for this light has been out of action but from the few miles I tried it, I was happy enough. I don't have a Cyo to do a side by side comparison, but from memory I'd say the Philips battery light was brighter in full power mode.
    The battery light is a fair weight for a handlebar mounted light, maybe 2x the weight of similar 4AA LED lights. The case looks to be made from cast aluminium alloy - I hope it is not the sort of brittle die cast metal that shatters if accidentally dropped!
    I'm thinking of running this light on external batteries and mounting above the forks with a DIY bracket.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJC View Post
    The case looks to be made from cast aluminium alloy - I hope it is not the sort of brittle die cast metal that shatters if accidentally dropped!
    Philips Dynamo has the case out of alu, but, in my memory, the lamp's mount is out of plastic. This is paradoxical because the mount is usually the most vulnerable part. I suspect that the alu body is for the sake of heat dissipation rather than durability. The erratic pattern of the beam suggests low quality casting of the mirror plastic.

  10. #10
    RJC
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    I made some measurement to check the voltage-current behaviour of the Philips battery light. I assume the electronics use a switch mode boost regulator to drive the two LEDs in series. If there is too much voltage (>6.7V) the current will no longer be regulated, which should be taken into account if running from an external power source.
    Philips_LED_battery_light_V-I.gif
    Last edited by RJC; 05-12-11 at 06:24 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJC View Post
    I made some measurement to check the voltage-current behaviour of the Philips battery light. I assume the electronics use a switch mode boost regulator to drive the two LEDs in series.
    If it's not rated for battery power, I doubt there is a power supply in the light. Doesn't make sense since modern emitters can take more current than dynos can generate

  12. #12
    RJC
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    Quote Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
    If it's not rated for battery power, I doubt there is a power supply in the light. Doesn't make sense since modern emitters can take more current than dynos can generate
    There are at least two versions of the Philips light. The dynamo light and an AA battery powered light. I measured the battery light.

    I think Philips are also planning to bring out other versions in the future e.g. for electric bikes which might work with a larger voltage range.

  13. #13
    RJC
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    It looks like you should also keep an eye on the clamp on the dynamo version:

    http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=43986.0

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJC View Post
    It looks like you should also keep an eye on the clamp on the dynamo version:
    Thanks for that tip. I decided that the best use for mine would be on a folder because of the alu housing and the degree to which lamps get banged up on a folded bike. However, a broken mount when being away from the base in travel would not be fun. I might swap the wire mount with IQ Cyo.
    Last edited by 2_i; 06-07-11 at 08:25 AM.

  15. #15
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    Update

    Update: Last night we had a chance to compare in practice the Philips Saferide Dynamo lamp and B&M IQ Cyo with near-illumination. I mounted the Saferide on a folder with 20" wheels, figuring out that an alu-housed lamp will have a better chance of surviving intact when the folder is in a suitcase. IQ Cyo was on a bike with 24" wheels. The lamps were powered by identical Shimano dynohubs. With the size of the wheels, Saferide should have more power available than Cyo.

    In the comparison, we found that Saferide indeed provides quite a bit dimmer illumination than Cyo, just as in the battery tests. Saferide's beam is a bit more spread out, but also erratic. The prominent feature of the Saferide's illumination is a bright blinding patch right before the rider's feet. This is followed by a dark area and then more uniform moderate illumination. At the beginning, I found the patch quite distracting but after a while learned to ignore it. The far away illumination was OK. The standlight is quite a bit inferior for Saferide than Cyo. It takes longer (but still short on absolute scale) to get it charged. Unlike for Cyo, the illumination darkens quite a bit when the dynamo is underpowered or idle, turning the light to one for being seen. Cyo keeps the standlight charge even for days, if the lamp is switched off, but this is not the case for Saferide. The Saferide switch toggles the lamp between on and off states, which can be a liability when looking for a faulty connection. There is no way telling from outside whether the lamp should be on or off.

    Overall, when proceeding from scratch, I would have presumably not bought the Saferide. In the folder application, I hope that its housing will compensate in part for its other deficiencies. It may further hold some edge for people who ride mostly on dark country roads. I usually ride in more varied conditions. For these, the brighter more logically laid out beam of Cyo is superior. Cyo is also an overall better rounded product.

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