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  1. #51
    Senior Member jputnam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a1penguin View Post
    I find that cars with the bluer tinted lights blinding. Perhaps it's an age thing. I hate those blue lights. So perhaps going for less blue cycling lights would be less intrusive to drivers.
    Those lights are another area that automotive regulators are looking at, and they have been implicated in accidents caused by glare, but I don't know any place that currently bans them.

    It is illegal to use intentionally-colored *bulbs* in most states, like those blue-tinted halogens for people who want to look like they have HID headlights. They're a violation of federal lighting regulations, which say the bulb must be white. But on HID lighting, the bulb is essentially clear, the obnoxious blue tint is the actual color of the light source.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/jputnam/collections/72157604835074312/

  2. #52
    Senior Member mechBgon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
    Burton said to do a reality check, so I did. I took pictures on the way home from my truck to show what the light from other cars is really like. Here's a truck across a 2 lane intersection that was roughly 30 feet away. He's in a left turn lane as am I and he is slightly up hill from me. It was a Ford pickup and my truck is a later model Chevy Tahoe which sits higher than current models.
    Yeah, when you really look around in a city environment, glare from auto headlights is just a fact of life. Intersections tend to be crowned to get water to drain, which tilts vehicles up at eachother. Not everyone owns a sweet late-model car with fancy headlight optics either.

    Pavement isn't level, either... I can watch the cutoff-equipped beam from my Cyo fly up into peoples' eyes as I go down my street, thanks to slight crowning of intersections and the deteriorating pavement. Overall, if I were determined never to send the core of my headlight beam into anyone's eyes, I'd have to give up riding AND driving Worrying about the impact of a MagicShine on a motorist on the other side of a normal-width city street, when they have about 4x the lumens to see by, and ambient lighting to maintain orientation with, is like worrying about killing someone with an AirSoft pellet ***. Do your worst. I've run emergency-vehicle strobes as taillights before, and received unsolicited praise from motorists over and over for being easy to see.

    If you're on an unlit MUP, facing people with far less light than you (or no lights), and you have to pass eachother with only 1-2 meters of space, then sure... start worrying about your MagicShine a little.

  3. #53
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechBgon View Post
    Yeah, when you really look around in a city environment, glare from auto headlights is just a fact of life. Intersections tend to be crowned to get water to drain, which tilts vehicles up at eachother. Not everyone owns a sweet late-model car with fancy headlight optics either.

    Pavement isn't level, either... I can watch the cutoff-equipped beam from my Cyo fly up into peoples' eyes as I go down my street, thanks to slight crowning of intersections and the deteriorating pavement. Overall, if I were determined never to send the core of my headlight beam into anyone's eyes, I'd have to give up riding AND driving Worrying about the impact of a MagicShine on a motorist on the other side of a normal-width city street, when they have about 4x the lumens to see by, and ambient lighting to maintain orientation with, is like worrying about killing someone with an AirSoft pellet ***. Do your worst. I've run emergency-vehicle strobes as taillights before, and received unsolicited praise from motorists over and over for being easy to see.

    If you're on an unlit MUP, facing people with far less light than you (or no lights), and you have to pass eachother with only 1-2 meters of space, then sure... start worrying about your MagicShine a little.
    That's what I've been sayin'! I find it funny that lots of people will argue with using high intensity lights and then, without an sense of irony whatsoever, use them. If I thought that my lights were a problem for other road users, I wouldn't use them. I don't ride MUPs at night for that reason. There are tons of options out there for shaped beams and lower intensity lights, so why are they running the bright lights? If you adamantly say one thing and the do the opposite, there's a term for that. I leave it as a reader exercise to find out what that term is.
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  4. #54
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
    That's what I've been sayin'! I find it funny that lots of people will argue with using high intensity lights and then, without an sense of irony whatsoever, use them. If I thought that my lights were a problem for other road users, I wouldn't use them. I don't ride MUPs at night for that reason. There are tons of options out there for shaped beams and lower intensity lights, so why are they running the bright lights? If you adamantly say one thing and the do the opposite, there's a term for that. I leave it as a reader exercise to find out what that term is.
    Most likely because they use both roads and cycle roads, not just one or the other.

  5. #55
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziemas View Post
    Most likely because they use both roads and cycle roads, not just one or the other.
    Then why has everyone got their panties in a bunch over blinding drivers? There has been little to no discussion in this thread about blinding pedestrians or even other cyclists on MUPs. The whole of the discussion seems to center around the plight of the poor automobile driver. We are blinding those people...Oh the humanity!
    Stuart Black
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  6. #56
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
    Then why has everyone got their panties in a bunch over blinding drivers? There has been little to no discussion in this thread about blinding pedestrians or even other cyclists on MUPs. The whole of the discussion seems to center around the plight of the poor automobile driver. We are blinding those people...Oh the humanity!
    Sounds like you have an axe to grind with car drivers. Good luck with that......

  7. #57
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziemas View Post
    Sounds like you have an axe to grind with car drivers. Good luck with that......
    No axe to grind with motorists. They don't really bother me as a group. I just don't think that we cyclists are a problem to them...other than a minor inconvenience.
    Stuart Black
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  8. #58
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
    No axe to grind with motorists. They don't really bother me as a group. I just don't think that we cyclists are a problem to them...other than a minor inconvenience.
    You seem to bristle at the mere mention of anyone wanting to respect drivers; not only in this thread, but in many others as well.

  9. #59
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziemas View Post
    You seem to bristle at the mere mention of anyone wanting to respect drivers; not only in this thread, but in many others as well.
    I respect drivers as much as they need respect. What chaps my hide in these discussions is undeserved concern about motorists comfort...usually at the expense of the cyclist's safety. That and the fact that people don't really observe where their bicycle lights are and, more importantly, are not going. If you ride where most cyclists ride, you will never cause an issue for motorists on the road. Why worry about...and burn up so many electrons over...a problem that just doesn't exist.
    Stuart Black
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    Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
    Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
    Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
    An Good Ol' Fashion Appalachian Butt Whoopin'.

  10. #60
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
    I respect drivers as much as they need respect. What chaps my hide in these discussions is undeserved concern about motorists comfort...usually at the expense of the cyclist's safety. That and the fact that people don't really observe where their bicycle lights are and, more importantly, are not going. If you ride where most cyclists ride, you will never cause an issue for motorists on the road. Why worry about...and burn up so many electrons over...a problem that just doesn't exist.
    Not everyone rides like you do, nor do we all ride in the same conditions as you do.

  11. #61
    Motorcycle RoadRacer cehowardGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
    Then why has everyone got their panties in a bunch over blinding drivers?
    I think I can answer that one! You ever heard the term "STUFF SHIRTS"?
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  12. #62
    Certified Bike Brat Burton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cehowardGS View Post
    I think I can answer that one! You ever heard the term "STUFF SHIRTS"?
    Let me spell it out to you because you seem to be short on imagination. I don't just drive bicycles. I also have over 500,00kms on high performance motorcycles and over 500,00kms on passenger cars and cube vans. It wasn't always required to drive a motorcycle with the headlight on and I was doing that before it was manditory. It wasn't always required to drive an automobile with the headlights on and I was doing that before it was manditory too.

    The concern isn't just for my own safety but that of whoever else happens to be on the road with me. If everyone spent as
    Much time and effort looking out for other peoples safety as they do their own - guess what- the world would be a much safer place to live in.


    But the fact that someone can even post something as stupid as "undeserved concern about motorists comfort" tells me some people are simply blinded by their own self-importance.

    Life's a two way street and if you refuse to look out for anyone else you have no right to expect anyone else to look out for you.

    And Mr Black - your pictures are really amusing and yet another demonstration that you decide what the 'facts' are first and then collect whatever you need to prove it. If you had exposed those pictures any longer it wouldn't even have mattered if the headlights were on. Realistically, if I had exposed mine long enough to capture the illumination of the cars headlights on the road - the LEDs would have whited out most of the photo. All my photos were deliberately underexposed which should have been very clear when I pointed out that in the first photo the brightest areas were actually direct sunlight. and sorry to have to point this out to you, but it's the orientation of the subject that determines if the photograph has been taken off to one side, NOT whether the subject has been centered.

    But hey, if you want to use YOUR photos as a reference I'll match the exposure time and even match the color balance. I'll find time in the next couple days. Heck , I'll even try for an SUV.
    Last edited by Burton; 01-18-12 at 06:46 AM.

  13. #63
    Motorcycle RoadRacer cehowardGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burton View Post
    Let me spell it out to you because you seem to be short on imagination.
    I know this is going to be good!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Burton View Post
    I don't just drive bicycles. I also have over 500,00kms on high performance motorcycles and over 500,00kms on passenger cars and cube vans. It wasn't always required to drive a motorcycle with the headlight on and I was doing that before it was manditory. It wasn't always required to drive an automobile with the headlights on and I was doing that before it was manditory too.
    Trying to understand where you are going with this. I also drive high performance motorcycles, and I was keeping my lights on way back when people blinked at you for having your lights on in the daytime. Ditto for seat belts.

    Still trying to see where you are going with this!

    Quote Originally Posted by Burton View Post
    The concern isn't just for my own safety but that of whoever else happens to be on the road with me. If everyone spent as
    Much time and effort looking out for other peoples safety as they do their own - guess what- the world would be a much safer place to live in.
    I agree, but still haven't found out where you are going with this yet!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Burton View Post
    But the fact that someone can even post something as stupid as "undeserved concern about motorists comfort" tells me some people are simply blinded by their own self-importance.
    First off, I think of others on the road just as I think of myself, myself a little bit more. I don't even run high end lights, I run cheapos. Also, I aim my cheapos down. Again, where do I deserve this wrath?

    Quote Originally Posted by Burton View Post
    Life's a two way street and if you refuse to look out for anyone else you have no right to expect anyone else to look out for you.
    However, I don't see bicycles with stong lights (percentage of all the bicycles in good old USA I would dare to say that 5 out of every 100 are running high power lights)running over cars because they don't see them, but I do see cars killing, maiming, and running bicycles off the road. Also, car lights are way brighter then bicycle lights. So, what is the beef? In addition, to the small percentage of bicyclists that are running how power lights, I think it is safe to say, that NONE of them are aiming their lights on purpose in drivers eyes. If they are, they are a tiny percentage. So, what do we have here, we don't even have a full ONE PERCENT of bicycles doing that. So, again, what is the beef about?

    I can list you a thousand cases of bicyclists and motorcyclist that have been taken out because the car drivers DIDN'T SEE THEM.

    So, it all comes down to what somebody else noted "why do a few have their panties bunched up over this"

    Loosen up, enjoy life, things are not that HARD!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Burton View Post
    And Mr Black - your pictures are really amusing and yet another demonstration that you decide what the 'facts' are first and then collect whatever you need to prove it. If you had exposed those pictures any longer it wouldn't even have mattered if the headlights were on. Realistically, if I had exposed mine long enough to capture the illumination of the cars headlights on the road - the LEDs would have whited out most of the photo.

    But hey, if you want to use YOUR photos as a reference I'll match the exposure time and even match the color balance. I'll find time in the next couple days. Heck , I'll even try for an SUV.
    Like I said, LOOSEN UP!!!
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  14. #64
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burton View Post
    The concern isn't just for my own safety but that of whoever else happens to be on the road with me. If everyone spent as
    Much time and effort looking out for other peoples safety as they do their own - guess what- the world would be a much safer place to live in.
    Well Mr. Burton, I do have concern for other's safety. I don't drive at excessive speed. I don't run red lights. I maintain my vehicles...bicycles and motor...so that the operate properly. I don't tailgate. I warn pedestrians when I'm passing on a bicycle.

    I don't shine my bicycle lights in motorists eyes and I aim my lights so that I don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Burton View Post
    But the fact that someone can even post something as stupid as "undeserved concern about motorists comfort" tells me some people are simply blinded by their own self-importance.
    The "undeserved concern about motorists comfort" is undeserved because bicycle lights aren't a problem for motorists. Look at mechBgon's video. His lights are typical of bicycle lights and there is no way that they are causing a problem for motorists...just like all of the other bicycle lights I see on a regular basis.

    And motorists do have to deal with brighter light sources that are closer to them than bicycle lights are. That's what my pictures show. All of those light sources were very close to what I, as a driver, was experiencing.

    Motorists have to deal with hundreds to thousands of cars passing within a few feet of their faces every time they drive. I learned not to look at the lights of on-coming cars when I was learning how to drive...and I pretty sure that most other drivers learned it too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Burton View Post
    Life's a two way street and if you refuse to look out for anyone else you have no right to expect anyone else to look out for you.
    I didn't say that I don't look out for others. But I drive my car and I ride my bike defensively because my first priority is to look out for my own safety. Everyone does that. I try to do no harm but there is a balance. If my lights are weakened to the point where my safety on a bicycle is compromised, as some seem to be suggesting that they should be, that's where I draw a line about be concerned for other's safety over mine.

    You say that you are concerned about other's safety and that your lights are too bright but you own and use the lights. Aren't you concerned about other's safety first like you said above? Shouldn't you stop using those lights tonight and make the road safe for the poor drivers who will be blinded and then die?

    Or do you put self preservation first?

    Quote Originally Posted by Burton View Post
    And Mr Black - your pictures are really amusing and yet another demonstration that you decide what the 'facts' are first and then collect whatever you need to prove it. If you had exposed those pictures any longer it wouldn't even have mattered if the headlights were on. Realistically, if I had exposed mine long enough to capture the illumination of the cars headlights on the road - the LEDs would have whited out most of the photo. All my photos were deliberately underexposed which should have been very clear when I pointed out that in the first photo the brightest areas were actually direct sunlight. and sorry to have to point this out to you, but it's the orientation of the subject that determines if the photograph has been taken off to one side, NOT whether the subject has been centered.

    But hey, if you want to use YOUR photos as a reference I'll match the exposure time and even match the color balance. I'll find time in the next couple days. Heck , I'll even try for an SUV.
    The photos were taken to demonstrate that motorists have to deal with bright lights all the time. They were taken at night so of course the exposure time was longer but it's not overly long. The shutter speed was 0.2 to 0.3 sec. And average blink is from 0.3 to 0.4 sec. The pictures were taken in, literally, the blink of an eye.

    Here's the photo information. Knock yourself out.

    Picture 1
    HTML Code:
    Camera Model: Canon PowerShot SX120 IS
    
    Resolution: 800 x 600
    
    Flash Used: No
    
    Focal Length: 6.0mm (35mm equivalent: 38mm)
    
    CCD Width: 5.74mm
    
    Exposure Time: 0.200 s (1/5)
    
    Aperture: f/2.8
    
    ISO Equiv.: 200
    
    Whitebalance: Auto
    
    Metering Mode: matrix
    Picture 2
    HTML Code:
    Focal Length: 6.0mm (35mm equivalent: 38mm)
    
    CCD Width: 5.74mm
    
    Exposure Time: 0.300 s (1/3)
    
    Aperture: f/2.8
    
    ISO Equiv.: 200
    
    Whitebalance: Auto
    Picture 3
    HTML Code:
    Focal Length: 6.0mm (35mm equivalent: 38mm)
    
    CCD Width: 5.74mm
    
    Exposure Time: 0.300 s (1/3)
    
    Aperture: f/2.8
    
    ISO Equiv.: 200
    
    Whitebalance: Auto
    Your camera is pointed directly at the bicycle and the lights in all of you photos. If the camera is pointed directly at the subject, that is the definition of 'centered'. Here's what you can do for a better test of how an on-coming driver would see your lights: Lean the bike up against the fence in your photo. Walk a certain distance from your bike parallel to the fence...let's say 24 feet or about 3 sections of fence. Now walk out 20 feet from the fence on a perpendicular line from the fence. Now aim your camera so that the lens is parallel to the fence. The camera shouldn't be pointed at the bike but at some point 20 feet to the left of it. Now see what your lights look like.

    If you look carefully at my photos, you'll see that the camera isn't aimed at the lights. I set the camera on the steering wheel and aimed it straight ahead. That is the view of the lights from other cars when driving in a normal manner and, as I've been trained to do, not looking at the lights of the on-coming cars.
    Last edited by cyccommute; 01-18-12 at 08:02 AM.
    Stuart Black
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    Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
    Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
    Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
    An Good Ol' Fashion Appalachian Butt Whoopin'.

  15. #65
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cehowardGS View Post
    However, I don't see bicycles with stong lights (percentage of all the bicycles in good old USA I would dare to say that 5 out of every 100 are running high power lights)running over cars because they don't see them, but I do see cars killing, maiming, and running bicycles off the road. Also, car lights are way brighter then bicycle lights. So, what is the beef? In addition, to the small percentage of bicyclists that are running how power lights, I think it is safe to say, that NONE of them are aiming their lights on purpose in drivers eyes. If they are, they are a tiny percentage. So, what do we have here, we don't even have a full ONE PERCENT of bicycles doing that. So, again, what is the beef about?
    It's even less of an impact. Roughly 2% of Americans commute to work by bicycle. A smaller percentage of them commute to work by bicycle year round with lights...let's say 20%. Let's say that only 20% of them ride with the brightest lights available rather than the cheapest lights available. If only 1% of that number is so clueless as to have their light aimed improperly on purpose, that's only around 3000 cyclists or 0.0008% of the population of the US. There are, roughly, 18,500 towns, villages and cities in the US so there is one of these sociopaths for every 6.2 towns. Your chances of running across one are slim, slight and none.
    Last edited by cyccommute; 01-18-12 at 01:14 PM.
    Stuart Black
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    Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
    Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
    Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
    An Good Ol' Fashion Appalachian Butt Whoopin'.

  16. #66
    Motorcycle RoadRacer cehowardGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
    It's even less of an impact. Roughly 2% of Americans commute to work by bicycle. A smaller percentage of them commute to work by bicycle year round with lights...let's say 20%. Let's say that only 20% of them ride with the brightest lights available rather than the cheapest lights available. If only 1% of that number is so clueless as to have their light aimed improperly on purpose, that's only around 3000 cyclists or 0.0008% of the population of the US. There are, roughly, 18,500 towns, villages and cities in the US so you there is one of these sociopaths for every 6.2 towns. Your chances of running across one are slim, slight and none.
    Apparently, the Bike Light Police are unaware of that stat!
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  17. #67
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
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    More photos, taken properly. The camera was mounted on a tripod. I initially used manual mode but misjudged the shutter speed. These photo were taken on automatic settings so the shutter speed doesn't necessarily match. Camera data for each picture is included.

    A 2004 PT Cruiser from 24 ft away head-on with photo data



    HTML Code:
    Camera Model: Canon PowerShot SX120 IS
    
    Resolution: 800 x 600
    
    Flash Used: No
    
    Focal Length: 6.0mm (35mm equivalent: 38mm)
    
    CCD Width: 5.74mm
    
    Exposure Time: 0.077 s (1/13)
    
    Aperture: f/2.8
    
    ISO Equiv.: 800
    Same car, 48 ft away.



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    Focal Length: 6.0mm (35mm equivalent: 38mm)
    
    CCD Width: 5.74mm
    
    Exposure Time: 0.067 s (1/15)
    
    Aperture: f/2.8
    
    ISO Equiv.: 800
    The car lights against a garage door. Notice that they have a cutoff.



    HTML Code:
    Focal Length: 6.0mm (35mm equivalent: 38mm)
    
    CCD Width: 5.74mm
    
    Exposure Time: 0.033 s (1/30)
    
    Aperture: f/2.8
    
    ISO Equiv.: 320
    Now the bike. Out fitted with 2 Magicshine 900 lights on a mountain bike. The lights are aimed about 2 carlengths away from the bike. The bike is sitting a little higher than the car in this picture due to the alley drainage and the lights are about a foot higher than the car's lights.

    First head-on in line with the lights as Mr. Burton did in his first photo. Distance to the light is 24 ft



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    Focal Length: 6.0mm (35mm equivalent: 38mm)
    
    CCD Width: 5.74mm
    
    Exposure Time: 0.050 s (1/20)
    
    Aperture: f/2.8
    
    ISO Equiv.: 500
    48 feet head-on



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    Exposure Time: 0.077 s (1/13)
    
    Aperture: f/2.8
    
    ISO Equiv.: 800
    48 ft, 12 feet to the right. That's approximately where a on-coming driver would be on a 2 lane road with no shoulder.



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    Exposure Time: 0.125 s (1/8)
    
    Aperture: f/2.8
    
    ISO Equiv.: 800
    24 feet from light 12 feet over. About where a on-coming driver would be at a stop sign.



    HTML Code:
    Exposure Time: 0.125 s (1/8)
    
    Aperture: f/2.8
    
    ISO Equiv.: 800
    The exposure times and ISO are all over the place. However, the exposure times for the bicycle lights is longer suggesting less light from the source.

    In the pictures the car and the bike are lined up in about the same place relative to the white fence. Also notice that the car casts far more light to the side as can be seen from the greater illumination of the fence and the building as well as the trash can at around 30 feet from the car.

    I'll admit that the bicycle lights are very noticeable and have some glare at 48 ft but at 24 ft, the lights would hardly be damaging, or even uncomfortable, to a driver's eyes unless they were dumb enough to look straight at them.
    Stuart Black
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    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
    Then why has everyone got their panties in a bunch over blinding drivers? There has been little to no discussion in this thread about blinding pedestrians or even other cyclists on MUPs.
    I got very little feed back from motorists in the way of their flashing their brights at me, but I've received numerous comments from peds walking towards me on the sidewalk, and this was the main reason for changing my MS lenses.

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    Senior Member stbtra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
    I got very little feed back from motorists in the way of their flashing their brights at me, but I've received numerous comments from peds walking towards me on the sidewalk, and this was the main reason for changing my MS lenses.
    I have had motorists flash their brights at me when my handlebar mounted 200 lumen zoomable flashlight was pointed a little too high--this is actually what prompted this question.

    but thanks for all the information guys, will definitely look into getting magicshines and replacing the lenses.

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    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stbtra View Post
    I have had motorists flash their brights at me when my handlebar mounted 200 lumen zoomable flashlight was pointed a little too high--this is actually what prompted this question.

    but thanks for all the information guys, will definitely look into getting magicshines and replacing the lenses.
    I'd council trying the Magicshines in their original form first. I've seen the beam shots from the replacement lenses and I'm not sure that they are making the light better. The replacement lenses diffuse the beam more and the Magicshine is already a floodlight with a reflector that is around 35 degrees. I'd like to see a narrower beam that is more on the order of 12 degrees. I find that the light tends to be rather ineffective for illumination around 30 feet in front of the bike.

    A narrower beam would also cut down on any issues that motorists might have with the lights. A wider beam exacerbates the problem.
    Stuart Black
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    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
    I'd council trying the Magicshines in their original form first. I've seen the beam shots from the replacement lenses and I'm not sure that they are making the light better. The replacement lenses diffuse the beam more and the Magicshine is already a floodlight with a reflector that is around 35 degrees. I'd like to see a narrower beam that is more on the order of 12 degrees. I find that the light tends to be rather ineffective for illumination around 30 feet in front of the bike.

    A narrower beam would also cut down on any issues that motorists might have with the lights. A wider beam exacerbates the problem.

    I currently use the beam on the left in your link, it's bright enough without being offensive to other road or sidewalk users. I tried the flatter beam on the right, but it was worthless in that I was practically ignored by other road users, and I could barely see the road way on rainy nights. I put in the center lens, but decided against it without any road testing.

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    Senior Member mechBgon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stbtra View Post
    I have had motorists flash their brights at me when my handlebar mounted 200 lumen zoomable flashlight was pointed a little too high--this is actually what prompted this question.

    but thanks for all the information guys, will definitely look into getting magicshines and replacing the lenses.
    And I've had them flash their brights at me with my 300-lumen German-spec SuperNova E3 Pro, complete with cutoff, on level ground. You can really overthink this... from the compliments my Nova, DiNottes and now my Hotshot have recieved as tailights, the general trend is that motorists LIKE cyclists to be easy to see, instead of being last-minute discoveries. And we're talking lights like the one at the start of this video:



    I can hear the bleeding hearts now: oh, that's too bright, it'll blind motorists, how terrible. Which must be why they're rolling down their windows to praise it for being so easy to notice amidst the traffic. Don't get carried away with the assumptions. And for what it's worth, I ride on pitch-dark trails with guys who have MagicShines, and even a point-blank blast from a helmet-mounted MS during a regroup doesn't qualify as "blinding." Just don't stare into it like an idiot, and you're fine.

  23. #73
    Motorcycle RoadRacer cehowardGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechBgon View Post
    And I've had them flash their brights at me with my 300-lumen German-spec SuperNova E3 Pro, complete with cutoff, on level ground. You can really overthink this... from the compliments my Nova, DiNottes and now my Hotshot have recieved as tailights, the general trend is that motorists LIKE cyclists to be easy to see, instead of being last-minute discoveries. And we're talking lights like the one at the start of this video:

    I can hear the bleeding hearts now: oh, that's too bright, it'll blind motorists, how terrible. Which must be why they're rolling down their windows to praise it for being so easy to notice amidst the traffic. Don't get carried away with the assumptions. And for what it's worth, I ride on pitch-dark trails with guys who have MagicShines, and even a point-blank blast from a helmet-mounted MS during a regroup doesn't qualify as "blinding." Just don't stare into it like an idiot, and you're fine.


    On the "being seen" has to be #1, I don't understand how others can't see that. Not only that people with high end lights, 98 or 99% of them are experienced and responsible in the use of their lights. It is PURE DANGER OUT THERE, and at night it is super dangerous. Being seen has to take priority over all other things. I bet the loves ones of the LIGHT POLICE feel the same way.

    Tonight when i was on my way home in rush hour traffic. I had to take full lanes on some parts of my commute, if I had a dam SEARCHLIGHT, I would have still felt underguned out there. Being seen up against SO-CALL-BLINDING OTHERS, don't hold a candle in real life. I can post numerous tragedies of bicyclists getting slaughtered, yes slaugtered by cars that DIDN'T SEE THEM.

    Again, super post, that filled with nothing but pure COMMON SENSE!!!
    Last edited by cehowardGS; 01-21-12 at 03:15 AM.
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    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechBgon View Post
    .....Just don't stare into it like an idiot, and you're fine.
    I'm sure that if given a chance, many of our local Bubbas would say the same if they were left unchecked in using their forward off road lights on their Truckzillias.

    Though I don't consider myself as a "light policeman", I still try to strike a balance in my ability to see and be seen, while being considerate of other road users. I can vividly remember driving my car one rainy night, and having to shield my eyes from some cyclist's high powered combo.

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    Motorcycle RoadRacer cehowardGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
    I can vividly remember driving my car one rainy night, and having to shield my eyes from some cyclist's high powered combo.
    If you don't mind me asking, what do you do when Mother Sun shines her zillion lum/watt/volts light in your eyes, and really does blind you for a while (if you look at her)??

    Who you call to regulate?

    Who do you complain too?

    After all,that is the brightest light known to man, and she sets herself up right at the end of the highway too. Can't see nothing...

    Who ya gonna call? Who???
    2001 Raleigh R700
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