Interference from MiniNewt 600 with Planet Bike Wireless Computer
02-23-12, 06:43 PM
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Interference from MiniNewt 600 with Planet Bike Wireless Computer
I have a Planet Bike Protege 9 Wireless computer and a NiteRider MiniNewt 600. When I have the light on it certain modes, it disrupting the wireless signal to the computer.
Flashing does not cause any issues. If I remember correctly either does low power, but of course the two higher settings do, the ones I want to use.
Anyone else have this issue, been able to work around it without getting different computer? I've moved the computer as far away on the handle bars as I could get it, but it still causes issues.
Thanks
Flashing does not cause any issues. If I remember correctly either does low power, but of course the two higher settings do, the ones I want to use.
Anyone else have this issue, been able to work around it without getting different computer? I've moved the computer as far away on the handle bars as I could get it, but it still causes issues.
Thanks
02-26-12, 09:50 AM
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It's pretty common for the regulation circuitry in HID or LED headlights to interfere with wireless cyclometers. New cyclometers that use 2.4 gHz, ANT+ or similar are essentially immune to this. Consider Garmin, Bontrager Node, some Cateye, and other higher-end wireless cyclometers.
02-27-12, 08:45 AM
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What is the story with the Bike Protege 9 Wireless on interference??
I see these going on Ebay for $36 new with free shipping. I was seriously thinking about getting one. I will be running LED flashlights beside it.
Do you think that the battery pack is making the interference? I won't be running battery packs, just rechargeable cells.
I see these going on Ebay for $36 new with free shipping. I was seriously thinking about getting one. I will be running LED flashlights beside it.
Do you think that the battery pack is making the interference? I won't be running battery packs, just rechargeable cells.
02-27-12, 11:11 AM
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It has nothing to do with the type of cells. The problem is in the nature of LED operation. LEDs by nature are not dimmable. Yet the lights often support various reduced-power modes, like 70%, 50%, 30% etc. How does it work, one might ask?
In order to make a LED light dimmer, you have to make it blink very rapidly, at high frequency. To a human eye this high-frequency blinking is imperceptible, it just looks like dimmer light. This principle is called PWM - pulse-width modulation. Depending on the relative duration of "on" periods to "off" periods (so called "duty cycle"), the light will look either brighter or dimmer. The PWM electronics (and the power pulses it produces when active) emit electromagnetic waves that pollute and/or jam wireless cyclometers communication channels. The range is not very large, but it is still sufficient to disable a typical wireless bike computer.
For this reason, when you run a LED light in full-power mode, it usually produces no interference (since the PWM electronics is disabled), but once you switch it to lower power modes, the light starts to interfere with wireless bike computers. This usually applies to all LED lights without exception, even though some people might claim that they see no interference from their LED lights. Some LED lights appear to keep their PWM circuits running even in full-power modes, meaning that such lights interfere with wireless computers at all times. Also, when used in "flashing" mode, some lights produce interference and some not.
It is believed that the primary emitter of electromagnetic interference in PWM mode is the battery power cable (if your battery is separated from the actual light). It basically acts as a transmitting antenna that broadcasts the jamming signal. For this reason, it is recommended to put the battery wire as far as possible from the computer. Also, one can try installing clamp-on ferrite chokes on both ends of the battery cable (available at Radio Shack).
I had this problem with my MagicShine 808E with Cateye Commuter computer. It produces no interference in full power mode, but completely jams the computer in any reduced-power modes. I put the chokes on the battery cable and rerouted the cable as far as possible from the comp. Now it works fine.
Of course, if your light has an integrated battery compartment and still interferes with the wireless computer, you have no cable to put the ferrite chokes on. In such cases the only simple solution is to increase the separation between these devices and see if it helps. Also, as it has already been mentioned above, some modern wireless bike computers work on a different frequency (2.4 Ghz), which is not susceptible to PWM jamming by a typical LED light.
In order to make a LED light dimmer, you have to make it blink very rapidly, at high frequency. To a human eye this high-frequency blinking is imperceptible, it just looks like dimmer light. This principle is called PWM - pulse-width modulation. Depending on the relative duration of "on" periods to "off" periods (so called "duty cycle"), the light will look either brighter or dimmer. The PWM electronics (and the power pulses it produces when active) emit electromagnetic waves that pollute and/or jam wireless cyclometers communication channels. The range is not very large, but it is still sufficient to disable a typical wireless bike computer.
For this reason, when you run a LED light in full-power mode, it usually produces no interference (since the PWM electronics is disabled), but once you switch it to lower power modes, the light starts to interfere with wireless bike computers. This usually applies to all LED lights without exception, even though some people might claim that they see no interference from their LED lights. Some LED lights appear to keep their PWM circuits running even in full-power modes, meaning that such lights interfere with wireless computers at all times. Also, when used in "flashing" mode, some lights produce interference and some not.
It is believed that the primary emitter of electromagnetic interference in PWM mode is the battery power cable (if your battery is separated from the actual light). It basically acts as a transmitting antenna that broadcasts the jamming signal. For this reason, it is recommended to put the battery wire as far as possible from the computer. Also, one can try installing clamp-on ferrite chokes on both ends of the battery cable (available at Radio Shack).
I had this problem with my MagicShine 808E with Cateye Commuter computer. It produces no interference in full power mode, but completely jams the computer in any reduced-power modes. I put the chokes on the battery cable and rerouted the cable as far as possible from the comp. Now it works fine.
Of course, if your light has an integrated battery compartment and still interferes with the wireless computer, you have no cable to put the ferrite chokes on. In such cases the only simple solution is to increase the separation between these devices and see if it helps. Also, as it has already been mentioned above, some modern wireless bike computers work on a different frequency (2.4 Ghz), which is not susceptible to PWM jamming by a typical LED light.
Last edited by AndreyT; 02-27-12 at 01:26 PM.
02-27-12, 12:26 PM
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It has nothing to do with the type of cells. The problem is in the nature of LED operation. LEDs by nature are not dimmable. Yet the lights often support various reduced-power modes, like 70%, 50%, 30% etc. How does it work, one might ask?
In order to make a LED light dimmer, you have to make it blink very rapidly, at high frequency. To a human eye this high-frequency blinking is imperceptible, it just looks like dimmer light. This principle is called PWM - pulse-width modulation. Depending on the relative duration of "on" periods to "off" periods (so called "duty cycle"), the light will look either brighter or dimmer. The PWM electronics (and the power pulses it produces when active) emit electromagnetic waves that pollute and/or jam wireless cyclometers communication channels. The range is not very large, but it is still sufficient to disable a typical wireless bike computer.
For this reason, when you run a LED light in full-power mode, it usually produces no interference (since the PWM electronics is disabled), but once you switch it to lower power modes, the light starts to interfere with wireless bike computers. This usually applies to all LED lights without exception, even though some people might claim that they see no interference from their LED lights. Some LED lights appear to keep their PWM circuits running even in full-power modes, meaning that such lights interfere with wireless computers at all times. Also, when used in "flashing" mode, some lights produce interference and some not.
It is believed that the primary emitter of electromagnetic interference in PWM mode is the battery power cable (if your battery is separated from the actual light). It basically acts as a transmitting antenna that broadcasts the jamming signal. For this reason, it is recommended to put the battery wire as far as possible from the computer. Also, one can try installing clamp-on ferrite chokes on both ends of the battery cable (available at Radio Shack).
I had this problem with my MagicShine 808E with Cateye Commuter Computer. It produces no interference in full power mode, but completely jams the computer in any reduced-power modes. I put the chokes on the battery cable and rerouted the cable as far as possible from the comp. Now it works fine.
Of course, if your light has an integrated battery compartment and still interferes with the wireless computer, you have no cable to put the ferrite chokes on. In such cases the only simple solution is to increase the separation between these devices and see if it helps. Also, as it has already been mentioned above, some modern wireless bike computers work on a different frequency (2.4 Ghz), which is not susceptible to PWM jamming by a typical LED light.
In order to make a LED light dimmer, you have to make it blink very rapidly, at high frequency. To a human eye this high-frequency blinking is imperceptible, it just looks like dimmer light. This principle is called PWM - pulse-width modulation. Depending on the relative duration of "on" periods to "off" periods (so called "duty cycle"), the light will look either brighter or dimmer. The PWM electronics (and the power pulses it produces when active) emit electromagnetic waves that pollute and/or jam wireless cyclometers communication channels. The range is not very large, but it is still sufficient to disable a typical wireless bike computer.
For this reason, when you run a LED light in full-power mode, it usually produces no interference (since the PWM electronics is disabled), but once you switch it to lower power modes, the light starts to interfere with wireless bike computers. This usually applies to all LED lights without exception, even though some people might claim that they see no interference from their LED lights. Some LED lights appear to keep their PWM circuits running even in full-power modes, meaning that such lights interfere with wireless computers at all times. Also, when used in "flashing" mode, some lights produce interference and some not.
It is believed that the primary emitter of electromagnetic interference in PWM mode is the battery power cable (if your battery is separated from the actual light). It basically acts as a transmitting antenna that broadcasts the jamming signal. For this reason, it is recommended to put the battery wire as far as possible from the computer. Also, one can try installing clamp-on ferrite chokes on both ends of the battery cable (available at Radio Shack).
I had this problem with my MagicShine 808E with Cateye Commuter Computer. It produces no interference in full power mode, but completely jams the computer in any reduced-power modes. I put the chokes on the battery cable and rerouted the cable as far as possible from the comp. Now it works fine.
Of course, if your light has an integrated battery compartment and still interferes with the wireless computer, you have no cable to put the ferrite chokes on. In such cases the only simple solution is to increase the separation between these devices and see if it helps. Also, as it has already been mentioned above, some modern wireless bike computers work on a different frequency (2.4 Ghz), which is not susceptible to PWM jamming by a typical LED light.
Thanks,
02-27-12, 01:33 PM
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A DOUBLE THANKS to AndreyT for a very informative reply!! 
I just sent a question to Cateye asking what frequency the Cateye Strada uses.
I just sent a question to Cateye asking what frequency the Cateye Strada uses.
Last edited by cehowardGS; 02-27-12 at 01:58 PM.
06-15-12, 12:26 PM
#7
You gonna eat that?
My wife just wants a basic computer (speed, distance, etc.) on her bike, but her LED headlight is interfering with it. Without going to a "higher-end wireless cyclometer", what options are out there for, say, less than $30? Are wired computers immune to interference from LED lights, or would the wire act as a receiving antenna for the PWM LED radiation?
__________________
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.
Originally Posted by bragi 
"However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.
Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
Last edited by Doohickie; 06-15-12 at 12:32 PM.
06-15-12, 02:05 PM
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My wife just wants a basic computer (speed, distance, etc.) on her bike, but her LED headlight is interfering with it. Without going to a "higher-end wireless cyclometer", what options are out there for, say, less than $30? Are wired computers immune to interference from LED lights, or would the wire act as a receiving antenna for the PWM LED radiation?
06-15-12, 10:25 PM
#10
You gonna eat that?
Thank you.
__________________
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.
Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.
Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
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