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  1. #1
    Senior Member rumrunn6's Avatar
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    google maps customized maps

    I love how easily google maps let you change your route and save the link.

    if only you could incorporate this custom mapping into a portable GPS so when you're on your bike you would have that great map and turn by turn directions in real time. like when you are learning a new route.

    was just reading an article about smart phones, and mapping etc and honestly it's all changing so quickly, I'm having trouble keeping up with my 50+ mentality. my 2 teens just got smart phones so wifey and me are next.

    is anyone here using something big and easy to read that shows turn by turn directions based on a route you make using a an easy to use interface like google maps?

    when is google going to make their own gps?

    only with Android?
    http://www.google.com/mobile/maps/
    Last edited by rumrunn6; 06-18-13 at 01:26 PM.
    cycling is like baseball ~ it doesn't take much to make it interesting

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    Everyone knows that Apple maps suck. Buy Android if you want Google Maps.

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    ???

    You can use ridewithgps (which uses google maps) to lay-out routes and you can download the routes from that to a Garmin to provide turn-by-turn directions.

    There is also a "cue sheet" android app that does turn-by-turn (I haven't tried it but people seem to like it).

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    Johnny99, what are you going on about?

    Google maps doesn't do what the OP wants.

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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    ???

    You can use ridewithgps (which uses google maps) to lay-out routes and you can download the routes from that to a Garmin to provide turn-by-turn directions.

    There is also a "cue sheet" android app that does turn-by-turn (I haven't tried it but people seem to like it).
    Yeah.

    There's a **lot** of different apps that will let you plan a route and view it on your smartphone as you're riding. There's a couple of drawbacks though -

    1. Battery Life - riding with your phone's screen on is a big drain on your phone's battery, and it might not last the whole trip. (A smartphone is super convenient for "oh wait, where are we?" kind of situations though)

    2. Screen Visibility in Sunlight - smartphone screens still - unfortunately - aren't terribly visible in direct sunlight. They're ok, but not great.

    3. Custom turn-by-turn directions - most apps will show you a map of where you are and the custom route you put in, but won't give you turn-by-turn directions (at least not audible ones). "cue sheet" is the only app I've seen that will announce directions.

  6. #6
    Senior Member rumrunn6's Avatar
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    my son tells me that with his iPhone he can use google maps to set a course and track our position live. it shows a dot moving along the track. even though this doesn't provide turn by turn direction it would show me where I was on my route and visually show me which direction to go.
    cycling is like baseball ~ it doesn't take much to make it interesting

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
    my son tells me that with his iPhone he can use google maps to set a course
    What does this mean?

    The Google Map app on the iPhone doesn't appear to let you load a track.

    You might be able do this on the Google Map website (viewing it on Safari or Chrome) but that would be not so great.

    Quote Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
    and track our position live. it shows a dot moving along the track. even though this doesn't provide turn by turn direction it would show me where I was on my route and visually show me which direction to go.
    There are many apps that let you load a gpx track (like from ridewithgps) and display the track along with your position on a map (updating your position.

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    Senior Member rumrunn6's Avatar
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    oh sorry, I think now that he was referring to a native app on the iphone that integrates google maps? sorry, this is 2nd hand info. I need to use one of those to fully understand.
    cycling is like baseball ~ it doesn't take much to make it interesting

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    Yeah.

    There's a **lot** of different apps that will let you plan a route and view it on your smartphone as you're riding. There's a couple of drawbacks though -
    This is confusing. It sounds like you are criticizing route planners too when you are really just criticizing using smartphones.

    ==============

    "App" usually means some program that you are running on your smartphone. Planning routes on a smartphone would likely be rather unpleasant.

    Most of the "route planners" are websites.

    Anyway, the device you use is separate from the route planning.

    ridewithgps produces files that you can use on a Garmin for turn-by-turn. It also produces printable cuesheets. It also produces gpx files that are viewable on many smartphone apps.

    ===========

    While there are drawbacks to smartphones, people often already have the smartphones. They might reasonably choose to deal with the drawbacks to avoid having to spend $450 on another device.

    The battery problem isn't that hard to deal with (but it's complicated if you have to deal with rain).
    Last edited by njkayaker; 06-25-13 at 09:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
    oh sorry, I think now that he was referring to a native app on the iphone that integrates google maps? sorry, this is 2nd hand info. I need to use one of those to fully understand.
    Yes.



    * The Garmin 800 will generate routes like a car GPS but they also will provide turn-by-turn directions for routes that you can load to it.

    * You can generate those routes using websites like ridewithgps.

    * There are many smartphone apps that will display those routes and your updated position on a map. Some of these will let you download the maps so that they still are useful when you don't have cell-network access.

    * The only smartphone app that I know of that will provide turn-by-turn directions is the "cuesheet" app on Android.
    Last edited by Siu Blue Wind; 06-25-13 at 06:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    This is confusing. It sounds like you are criticizing route planners too when you are really just criticizing using smartphones.

    ==============

    "App" usually means some program that you are running on your smartphone. Planning routes on a smartphone would likely be rather unpleasant.

    Most of the "route planners" are websites.

    Anyway, the device you use is separate from the route planning.

    ridewithgps produces files that you can use on a Garmin for turn-by-turn. It also produces printable cuesheets. It also produces gpx files that are viewable on many smartphone apps.

    ===========

    While there are drawbacks to smartphones, people often already have the smartphones. They might reasonably choose to deal with the drawbacks to avoid having to spend $450 on another device.

    The battery problem isn't that hard to deal with (but it's complicated if you have to deal with rain).
    I...didn't say anything about planning the route on the smartphone itself. I noted as "drawbacks" (not unstoppable obstacles, just drawbacks) that using a smartphone had drawbacks with battery life and screen visibility in sunlight. For the apps themselves, the drawback was that only "cue sheet" would audibly (sound) announce turn by turn directions for you.

    I agree that people would often likely choose to deal with the drawbacks to avoid spending a lot of money on a separate device. I'm just saying there are drawbacks. (And a separate device has it's own drawbacks, like needing to carry both your phone and a separate device, needing to charge both, etc etc.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    I...didn't say anything about planning the route on the smartphone itself.
    You used the word "app". People understand that to mean a smartphone app. "App" is short-hand for a program on a smartphone.

    For example, if you are referring to "ridewithgps.com" (a website), call it a "website" (not an "app"). Calling it an app is just going to confuse people.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    I noted as "drawbacks" (not unstoppable obstacles, just drawbacks) that using a smartphone had drawbacks with battery life and screen visibility in sunlight.
    This list was fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    For the apps themselves, the drawback was that only "cue sheet" would audibly (sound) announce turn by turn directions for you.
    I suppose you mean the drawback is that it doesn't say (use voice) to announce the turn (but uses some other sound). If that's what you mean, I believe that the cuesheet programmers are working on that. Note that the Garmins don't use voice either.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    I agree that people would often likely choose to deal with the drawbacks to avoid spending a lot of money on a separate device. I'm just saying there are drawbacks. (And a separate device has it's own drawbacks, like needing to carry both your phone and a separate device, needing to charge both, etc etc.)
    An extra $450 for a separate essentially-duplicate device is a big drawback!

    Listing just the drawbacks suggests that you think there aren't any good reasons for the choice!

    It's certainly useful to make drawbacks (cons) about a choice clear. Also pointing out the pros for that choice shows that you understand the whole picture. (Note that I think you do know the whole picture. I am just suggesting that you make it clear that you do!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    You used the word "app". People understand that to mean a smartphone app. "App" is short-hand for a program on a smartphone.

    For example, if you are referring to "ridewithgps.com" (a website), call it a "website" (not an "app"). Calling it an app is just going to confuse people.
    It's ambigous, yes, but since I did not talk about creating the map itself in the list of positive and negatives I don't see a strong correlation between that ambigous statement that could have meant either one and any assumption about where you could create the maps. I just wasn't discussing where you would create the maps, it wasn't part of the topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    This list was fine.


    I suppose you mean the drawback is that it doesn't say (use voice) to announce the turn (but uses some other sound). If that's what you mean, I believe that the cuesheet programmers are working on that. Note that the Garmins don't use voice either.


    An extra $450 for a separate essentially-duplicate device is a big drawback!

    Listing just the drawbacks suggests that you think there aren't any good reasons for the choice!

    It's certainly useful to make drawbacks (cons) about a choice clear. Also pointing out the pros for that choice shows that you understand the whole picture. (Note that I think you do know the whole picture. I am just suggesting that you make it clear that you do!)
    I thought someone else was saying the Garmins did...but I don't own one, so I don't know.

    As you pointed out, I don't know the whole picture, thus the reason for my not attempting to explain it. :-P I don't own a Garmin, so I don't want to comment on whether the Garmin is better in all of these regards or not. For example, it is *possible* to make an LED screen that is visible in daylight (I think it's called transreflective or something, I have a camera with one and it really works). But I do not know if those are used on the Garmin, and if I did I'd have to figure out if all models used them or just some...

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    It's ambigous, yes,
    It's not ambiguous to most people. Most people understand "app" to mean a program on a smartphone.
    If you think the term is ambigous, then that should be a hint that you should use a term that isn't ambiguous.

    Note that the OP is somewhat confused. I'm making sure that what we discuss doesn't confuse him further.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    I just wasn't discussing where you would create the maps, it wasn't part of the topic.
    That isn't correct. The OP certainly talked about creating the routes (not "maps", by the way).

    And you mentioned places where you could create the routes.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    There's a **lot** of different apps that will let you plan a route and view it on your smartphone as you're riding.
    This is confusing and not quite correct. The thing you use to plan the route doesn't allow you to view it on your smartphone (because it doesn't run on the smartphone).

    There are a few websites that let you create a route (ridewithgps). These websites allow you to create a file (tcx or gpx) that you can send to your Garmin or smartphone.

    For the smartphone, you need an app to display the route. Some of the website companies (for example, mapmyride and strava) also provide smartphone apps that will display the route.

    There are also quite a few smartphone apps that will display the route on a map and your current location (Motion X GPS is one example).

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    I thought someone else was saying the Garmins did...but I don't own one, so I don't know.
    The bicycle Garmins (the Edge 800) only make a noise. No voice.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    As you pointed out, I don't know the whole picture, thus the reason for my not attempting to explain it. :-P I don't own a Garmin, so I don't want to comment on whether the Garmin is better in all of these regards or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    For example, it is *possible* to make an LED screen that is visible in daylight (I think it's called transreflective or something, I have a camera with one and it really works).
    Your understanding is OK (actually) even if you don't quite get the whole picture.

    The screen on the Garmin Edge 800 can be bit hard to read maps on and it'ss kind of small (a con). But its small size makes it easier to mount (a pro) and the smaller screen uses less power (another pro).

    The Garmins displays two types of data: data that is just text/numbers (fairly easy to read in sunlight) and map data (somewhat hard to read).

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    But I do not know if those are used on the Garmin, and if I did I'd have to figure out if all models used them or just some...
    We are talking about maps (mostly). For bicycle-specific Garmins, there is (basically) only one model to worry about (the Edge 800/810).
    Last edited by njkayaker; 06-25-13 at 02:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    It's not ambiguous to most people. Most people understand "app" to mean a program on a smartphone.
    If you think the term is ambigous, then that should be a hint that you should use a term that isn't ambiguous.

    Note that the OP is somewhat confused. I'm making sure that what we discuss doesn't confuse him further.

    That isn't correct. The OP certainly talked about creating the routes (not "maps", by the way).

    And you mentioned places where you could create the routes.

    This is confusing and not quite correct. The thing you use to plan the route doesn't allow you to view it on your smartphone (because it doesn't run on the smartphone).
    Ah, no, the forum software did not quote my quote that you quoted, which was "I...didn't say anything about planning the route on the smartphone itself."

    Technically, "app" means a program, not inherently implying that it's on a smartphone, unless smartphone is in the context of the conversation (which it was, but if we're dissecting grammar it's worth noting as you did not distinguish between the two as your sentence claims that "app" would not apply to an app on a computer, a gps device, etc). But it's rather beside the point as the point of ambiguity is not in what "app" means but -

    What I wrote was -
    "There's a **lot** of different apps that will let you plan a route and view it on your smartphone as you're riding."

    The ambiguity in the sentence structure is whether or not it's read as "plan a route...on your smartphone" or read as "plan a route...and in something unrelated, view the route on your smartphone".

    For example:
    - There are a lot of apps that will let you go to a location and get your current gps coordinates on your smartphone"

    Does not imply that your smartphone will drive or carry you to the location, it only implies that your smartphone is involved in getting your current gps corodinates.

    On the other hand:
    - There are lots of apps that let you record and view your route

    Does imply that the app will both record your route and also let you view it.

    "There's a **lot** of different apps that will let you plan a route and view it on your smartphone as you're riding"

    Ties together the viewing part as being on your smartphone with "view it on your smartphone" but leaves ambiguous whether or not the planning part is related to being on your smartphone - or whether the planning part is not involved with the smartphone whatsoever.

    Now if you're capable of parsing what I just wrote, you might find these two videos that I just watched entertaining -
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNKjS...layer_embedded
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85fx0...layer_embedded

    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    There are a few websites that let you create a route (ridewithgps). These websites allow you to create a file (tcx or gpx) that you can send to your Garmin or smartphone.

    For the smartphone, you need an app to display the route. Some of the website companies (for example, mapmyride and strava) also provide smartphone apps that will display the route.

    There are also quite a few smartphone apps that will display the route on a map and your current location (Motion X GPS is one example).

    The bicycle Garmins (the Edge 800) only make a noise. No voice.

    Your understanding is OK (actually) even if you don't quite get the whole picture.

    The screen on the Garmin Edge 800 can be bit hard to read maps on and it'ss kind of small (a con). But its small size makes it easier to mount (a pro) and the smaller screen uses less power (another pro).

    The Garmins displays two types of data: data that is just text/numbers (fairly easy to read in sunlight) and map data (somewhat hard to read).

    We are talking about maps (mostly). For bicycle-specific Garmins, there is (basically) only one model to worry about (the Edge 800/810).
    Which is why I did not discuss the Garmin units, not because I was attempting to say that the phone had drawbacks and the Garmin did not, but because I am not familiar with Garmin models. And even if I did own one, I would then have to specify which model I owned as what applied to my own model (regarding battery life, screen clarity, and whether or not it reads directions via a voice prompt) may be different on other models.
    Last edited by PaulRivers; 06-25-13 at 03:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    Ah, no, the forum software did not quote my quote that you quoted, which was "I...didn't say anything about planning the route on the smartphone itself."
    No, you didn't say those words. The problem is that what you meant is contrary to how most people are going to understand it.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    Technically, "app" means a program, not inherently implying that it's on a smartphone,
    Technically, it has multiple related meanings.

    "There's an app for that" isn't talking about applications generally.

    For the general public, at this point in time, "app" usually refers to something on a smartphone.

    If you want to be clear, using "app" to refer to any program doesn't seem like a good idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    unless smartphone is in the context of the conversation (which it was, but if we're dissecting grammar it's worth noting as you did not distinguish between the two as your sentence claims that "app" would not apply to an app on a computer, a gps device, etc). But it's rather beside the point as the point of ambiguity is not in what "app" means but -
    Most people, at this point in time, are going to assume smartphone is the context of unqualified "app". It's not a "grammar" issue. It's a common-usage issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    What I wrote was -
    "There's a **lot** of different apps that will let you plan a route and view it on your smartphone as you're riding."

    The ambiguity in the sentence structure is whether or not it's read as "plan a route...on your smartphone" or read as "plan a route...and in something unrelated, view the route on your smartphone".
    For example:
    - There are a lot of apps that will let you go to a location and get your current gps coordinates on your smartphone"

    Does not imply that your smartphone will drive or carry you to the location, it only implies that your smartphone is involved in getting your current gps corodinates.
    This is a mess and, while I'm convinced that you understand what is going on, you aren't succeeding in communicating it.

    You own the ambiguity. Don't "explain" it. Fix it.

    I would probably not use "lots" to describe the number of them.

    There are two classes of programs: the route planner and the route viewer. You need two separate programs: one to plan the route and another to view it.

    The websites that produce the routes really have little to do with viewing the routes on another device.

    ==================================

    Here's the deal (as an overview):

    * There are around 7 or so (that I know of) websites that allow you to plan routes. (There may be programs that you can install on your PC to create routes but it seems that there aren't really any current ones. There are a small number of smartphone apps that appear to provide route planning but I can't imaging anybody would really want to use them since it's hard enough to do route planning on a larger monitor with a mouse.)

    * These websites allow you to produce files (tcx and gpx formats) that you can load to devices like GPS and smartphones. Beyond producing these files, they have nothing to do with using/viewing the routes while you are on your bicycle.

    * The Garmins can use "tcx" files (Garmin specific) and "gpx" files (basically gps xml files, which is used by many things) to view/use the route.

    * There are many smartphone apps that can display "gpx" files on a map along with your current location.

    * There is one smartphone app (that I know of) that can provide turn-by-turn prompts from the gpx files (the "cuesheet" app on Android).
    Last edited by njkayaker; 06-25-13 at 05:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    Which is why I did not discuss the Garmin units, not because I was attempting to say that the phone had drawbacks and the Garmin did not, but because I am not familiar with Garmin models. And even if I did own one, I would then have to specify which model I owned as what applied to my own model (regarding battery life, screen clarity, and whether or not it reads directions via a voice prompt) may be different on other models.
    The Garmins have one glaring drawback that most-everybody is aware-of (you don't have to know that much about them to be aware of if). They are a large (and expensive) cost for what is essentially the same sort of device that a smartphone is: a small computer with a GPS.

    Anyway, without understanding what the alternatives are, you have no idea whether the supposed drawbacks of smartphones might exist for the Garmin units too!
    Last edited by njkayaker; 06-25-13 at 05:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    The Garmins have one glaring drawback that most-everybody is aware-of (you don't have to know that much about them to be aware of if). They are a large (and expensive) cost for what is essentially the same sort of device that a smartphone is: a small computer with a GPS.

    Anyway, without understanding what the alternatives are, you have no idea whether the supposed drawbacks of smartphones might exist for the Garmin units too!
    Yes, this is "people chatting on the internet", not "I hired an expert to do a comprehensive review".

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    Hey guyz? Guyz? Wait up!! Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
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    Okay everyone take a breather.

    I'll open it later. Someone remind me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha
    We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by making View Post
    Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.

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    Hey guyz? Guyz? Wait up!! Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
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    Okay so I opened this thread again. Let's all play nice now and don't forget to respect each other's opinions, even if you don't agree with them. Don't forget the forum guidelines, I'd appreciate it. Thank you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha
    We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by making View Post
    Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.

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    "I love how easily google maps let you change your route and save the link."

    rumrunn6 - I just tried mapmyride.com, and they provide a web interface to create your own map, you can send it directly to your phone from the web app, and follow the map on the phone screen as you ride. Unfortunately, "cuesheet" is the only app I know of (a different app) that will actually read you turn by turn directions.

    I'm pretty sure there are apps that will display turn-by-turn directions on your phone, but since I was looking for something that would announce them to a bluetooth earpiece, I'm not sure what they are...

  22. #22
    Senior Member rumrunn6's Avatar
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    a lot to take in, thanks everyone for sharing your knowledge and experience!

    @ PaulRivers ~ just plotted a route on mapmyride (actually had to have google up as well so I could use the same specific roads), but I got it done and sent it to my phone which is waiting in my inbox. guess I should go buy a smartphone, huh? maybe I will try this out with my kids smartphones on our way to dinner tonight
    Last edited by rumrunn6; 06-27-13 at 07:36 AM.
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    There is an app on iOS that does voice directions from gpx files. It is called Co-Rider. It's $2.99, so you have to pony up some money to try it, but it seems to work pretty well.

    I have tried it and I like it, even though there are some issues - but the developer is actively working on it, so I felt like I would support him by buying it.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    "I love how easily google maps let you change your route and save the link."

    rumrunn6 - I just tried mapmyride.com, and they provide a web interface to create your own map, you can send it directly to your phone from the web app, and follow the map on the phone screen as you ride. Unfortunately, "cuesheet" is the only app I know of (a different app) that will actually read you turn by turn directions.
    ridewithgps might be better. You can create a gpx file (of two types) that you can email to your phone and open it up in the app of your choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    I'm pretty sure there are apps that will display turn-by-turn directions on your phone, but since I was looking for something that would announce them to a bluetooth earpiece, I'm not sure what they are...
    As far as I can tell, there's are only two (the "cuesheet" Android) and the "co-rider" app for iOS) that will provide any sort of turn-by-turn directions. I've looked long and hard for any. (There are a few that appear to do it but they are too vague about it to rely on what they say.)

    Co-rider appears to speak the turns (which means it would work on a headset).

    Of course, cyclists will usually want downloaded maps too (so they don't have to rely on the cell-network being available). There are a fair number of programs that provide download maps but the method for some of them to download maps is rather painful (except if you are interested in a few small regions).
    Last edited by njkayaker; 06-27-13 at 10:30 AM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat94 View Post
    There is an app on iOS that does voice directions from gpx files. It is called Co-Rider. It's $2.99, so you have to pony up some money to try it, but it seems to work pretty well.

    I have tried it and I like it, even though there are some issues - but the developer is actively working on it, so I felt like I would support him by buying it.
    There is that one also. So there are two of them: one for Android and one for iOS/iPhone.

    http://www.appliedphasor.com/co-rider

    It looks like this has been improved significantly in 2 months.

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