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  1. #1
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    Garmin Edge 705 vs. 810

    Hi All,
    Posting this as I've seen a few posts that almost answer, but none that are on the button.

    I have a Garmin Edge 705 and I'm thinking of buying a new toy. I use the 705 for racing against my virtual partner, (usually around Richmond Park in London), and I like the mapping function for long rides to find my way home again.

    Two things I don't like are the following:
    1. It takes *ages* to plot the mapping route. Goes through calculation for ages and then sits at 100% before displaying route. Usually on long rides, I have cycled beyond the turn point it suggested by then and then it goes back into calculation again.
    2. The "time to destination" seems to be based on an arthritic grandmother cycling. I think it's calculated based on about 15km/h. Am looking for a way to bump that to 25+ as even with traffic lights that's a more reasonable measure.

    I have a HRM and Cadence, but not a powermeter.

    My question as follows:
    1. Is it worth the upgrade price? Will I still use my HRM and Cadence?
    2. Is it a faster mapping calculation?
    3. Can I still create virtual racing partner courses from my cycling history?
    4. Is it possible to hack it to change time to destination?

    Thanks everyone.

    Gavin

  2. #2
    Senior Member Looigi's Avatar
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    1. IMO, not worth it. Yes it will work with your HRM strap and GSC10
    2. Yes. However, limiting the number of course points to ~1500 or less will speed up the 705. Use TCX Converter and/or divide longer routes into two. I've also found that using some OSMs speed up calcs by almost a factor of two, but introduce other issues.
    3. Don't know.
    4. Don't know. But I find it easy to estimate based on miles to go and typical avg pace somewhere between ~3-4 minutes/mile.

    You may already be aware of the official user's forums which can be useful for questions like these. https://forums.garmin.com/forumdisplay.php?20-Cycling

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looigi View Post
    I've also found that using some OSMs speed up calcs by almost a factor of two, but introduce other issues.
    Wow. Really? On just the 705? I've found the OSM maps slower on the 800 (though, not horribly so).

    What issues? The "openfiets" version of the OSM maps don't work very well for routing in the US (by my experience) because they exclude many roads that are perfectly-fine for riding and, thus, make it impossible to compute routes or produce wacky detours. The "openfiets" version worked fine in Germany. The normal OSM maps seem to route fine in the US.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Looigi's Avatar
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    The most recent OSM I used is from: http://www.osmmaps.com/maps/united-states

    Trying to layout routes with it on BaseCamp with this (and OSM maps from http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/O...armin/Download), I find errors like roads that won't route through or are erroneously one-way, etc. On the unit, it works fine navigating GPX files which load about 2x faster than using Garmin CN maps. The issue on the 705 is that the intersection properties in the OSM are weird which leads to turn prompt diagrams being wack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Looigi View Post
    The most recent OSM I used is from: http://www.osmmaps.com/maps/united-states

    Trying to layout routes with it on BaseCamp with this (and OSM maps from http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/O...armin/Download), I find errors like roads that won't route through or are erroneously one-way, etc. On the unit, it works fine navigating GPX files which load about 2x faster than using Garmin CN maps. The issue on the 705 is that the intersection properties in the OSM are weird which leads to turn prompt diagrams being wack.
    You might want to see if this works better.

    http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl/

    Don't use the "openfiets" version for the US!

    There's a step required to convert the OSM routing information to a Garmin Edge compatible format. Some processes might produce a better result than others.

    The mkgmap program is used to do the conversion (I think that's the only program available) but the parameters used might be different.

    If the roads are erroneously one-way on OSM, you can change the attributes.
    Last edited by njkayaker; 09-11-13 at 03:10 PM.

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    Senior Member Looigi's Avatar
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    Actually, http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl/ is what I used first. The second link in my post is incorrect. These were the maps with the routing issues, but that was over two years ago, so things may have improved. I downloaded maps from my first link a bit over a year ago and these are the ones that "navigate" about twice as fast as CN maps. I have CN maps which work well, so no plan to further experiment with OS maps at this time.

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    If you were using the openfeits version of the map from that site, the routing won't work in the US.

    I haven't seen routing issues with the normal OSM maps from that site.

  8. #8
    Senior Member dougmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrGlass70 View Post
    2. The "time to destination" seems to be based on an arthritic grandmother cycling. I think it's calculated based on about 15km/h. Am looking for a way to bump that to 25+ as even with traffic lights that's a more reasonable measure.
    I'm not aware of any way to do this in the settings.

    So ... take how long it says you'll take, and divide by two in your head.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looigi View Post
    The most recent OSM I used is from: http://www.osmmaps.com/maps/united-states.
    It looks like this has the "openfiets/bicycling" map problem. That is, this version/compilation of the OSM maps is not really useful for routing in the US.

    What I mean by "routing" is having the Garmin compute a route to a particular place (like people typically do for car GPS nav units).

    As it happens, just by luck, I have a destination that produces a wacky detour when the map version is "bad" (compiled for bicycling in one way or another).

    Basically, the problem is that many roads that are used for cycling in my area are classified in OSM as "primary". The "bicycling" versions of the OSM maps lump these streets with "highways" (roads that you would not really ride a bicycle on).

    You need the "primary" roads for sensible/useful routing but with the "bicycling" versions, you either also get highways (bad) or the don't "exist" for routing.

    For the US, you want the normal (not bicycle-specific) OSM maps and you want to "avoid highways" on the Garmin if you use the unit to compute routes.

    Last edited by njkayaker; 09-12-13 at 05:21 PM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Looigi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    It looks like this has the "openfiets/bicycling" map problem. That is, this version/compilation of the OSM maps is not really useful for routing in the US.

    What I mean by "routing" is having the Garmin compute a route to a particular place (like people typically do for car GPS nav units).

    As it happens, just by luck, I have a destination that produces a wacky detour when the map version is "bad" (compiled for bicycling in one way or another).

    Basically, the problem is that many roads that are used for cycling in my area are classified in OSM as "primary". The "bicycling" versions of the OSM maps lump these streets with "highways" (roads that you would not really ride a bicycle on).

    You need the "primary" roads for sensible/useful routing but with the "bicycling" versions, you either also get highways (bad) or the don't "exist" for routing.

    For the US, you want the normal (not bicycle-specific) OSM maps and you want to "avoid highways" on the Garmin if you use the unit to compute routes.

    Interesting. I basically never use it to compute routes, only to navigate GPX files I download to it. For this purpose, route preference settings have no effect, at least in my experience. That may be why the version I've download works for me...except for wack turn diagrams.

    Next time I try OSMs I'll be sure to try the non-bike version.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looigi View Post
    Interesting. I basically never use it to compute routes,
    I suspect that not many people use them that way. It actually can be a useful feature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Looigi View Post
    only to navigate GPX files I download to it. For this purpose, route preference settings have no effect, at least in my experience. That may be why the version I've download works for me...except for wack turn diagrams.

    Next time I try OSMs I'll be sure to try the non-bike version.
    If you are using gpx/tcx (the file format doesn't matter), you want "track" (lots of points close together) data not "route" (just major turns) data (using the ridewithgps definitions for "track" and "route").

    If you are using turn-by-turn (TBT) for navigation, the Garmins still have to compute the route (and use routing information). That process tends to work much better if you use "track" files. The odd "openfiets/bicycling" routing issues doesn't seem to impact the routing calculations the Garmins do for track TBT.

    Note, too, that you'll get better TBT from a "clean" track (one that has been snapped to roads in ridewithgps/whatver) than a track that is a raw course (a recorded ride).

    Once in a while, with TBT, the Garmin will compute a different path than the track you are following (for example, I've had it take short-cuts).
    Last edited by njkayaker; 09-13-13 at 04:34 PM.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Looigi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
    I suspect that not many people use them that way. It actually can be a useful feature.

    If you are using gpx/tcx (the file format doesn't matter), you want "track" (lots of points close together) data not "route" (just major turns) data (using the ridewithgps definitions for "track" and "route").

    If you are using turn-by-turn (TBT) for navigation, the Garmins still have to compute the route (and use routing information). That process tends to work much better if you use "track" files. The odd "openfiets/bicycling" routing issues doesn't seem to impact the routing calculations the Garmins do for track TBT.

    Note, too, that you'll get better TBT from a "clean" track (one that has been snapped to roads in ridewithgps/whatver) than a track that is a raw course (a recorded ride).

    Once in a while, with TBT, the Garmin will compute a different path than the track you are following (for example, I've had it take short-cuts).
    Agree. The capability for the device to Nav to a POI can be useful, especially if you have a use for it.

    Use track files designed on the computer and downloaded to the device (RWGPS, GPSies, courses from Garmin Connect). For the 705, limit the number of track points to ~1500 or less to speed loading and reduce the likelihood of Nav issues. Routes created using Basecamp use the maps in the device so can have less issues.

    I have used history files with success, but not very often so may not have run into their limitations.
    Last edited by Looigi; 09-14-13 at 09:05 AM.

  13. #13
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    Happened again recently when on a trip to bath. I jumped out of the car at Guildford, and it too just so long to calculate that I gave up and picked towns along the way from my smartphone. Then eventually as I was only 15k from Bath, it calculated in time. From what it seems to say here is that the garmin maps have too much detail and it drowns the device.. is that right? IN which case, where can I get a replacement map for the UK and Ireland?

    Thanks,

    Gav

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