benze

I'm a pretty much newbie in the world of cycling, having only started at it this summer. So far, my rides have been limited to daytime, but with nighttime creeping in earlier and earlier, I get the feeling that I need to start equiping myself for night time biking.

The first obvious thing is lights. I need a headlight, tail light, and I am often pulling kids in a chariot, so need something back there as well. The first obvious question is whether or not a dynohub is worth it. I can understand the convenience factor of never having to charge your lights or change batteries and never have them die mid ride. However, given that my night rides are mostly geared to in-city rides (ie: street lamps, an hour or two at most after dark), is it really worth the extra cost to get a dynohub? Apart from the cost of the actually dyno, the cost of rebuilding the wheel/etc seems fairly prohibitive.

On the other hand, I keep seeing removable USB-rechargeable lights. I'm not a huge fan of having to remember that I need to charge my light when I get home, remember to take it with me, and keep it handy on the odd occasion when I forget to plan to bike at night. But if I leave a removable one mounted on the bike, it is bound to get stolen if I ever park my bike somewhere (like when dropping kids off at daycare/etc).

Are there any recommendations for types of lights to use? Be it battery or dyno? What are the other advantages of a dyno? Do I need head mounted lights as well on the helmet? With a tail light and a headlight, is a helmet light useful?

The other thing I can think of is a reflective vest. Does anyone have recommendations for something? Ideally, I'd like a mesh I can throw over whatever shirt/jacket/etc I have on at the time.

Is there other nighttime equipment that I should have (both in terms of safety and for vision)?

Thanks!

Eric

Richard Cranium

There are plenty of excellent products. The "real issues" have to do with whether you want to protect your self with some sort "side marker" lighting. In urban environments - where you have to compete with traffic from intersections - you need more lights than a cyclist out on a dark rural road.

Taking time to think about how you would use your equipment is better than focusing on specific items.

benze

"Side Marker" lighting would be excellent. I didn't even know that they existed, short of reflectors on wheels/etc. Can you suggest any types of side-marker lighting equipment?

Thanks,

Eric

20_700c

Durable - weight - cost --- pick two. Ex., More durable, low cost are almost incompatible, but you'd pay for it in weight.

Dynamo light systems are great - but expensive. Period. I have a dynohub setup - but I wouldn't leave the bike unattended in the downtown area in a city due to the theft-replacement cost.

Head-mounted lights are good for looking offline from your direction of travel. Think of it this way - your car headlights oly point straight ahead. But your head actually turns to look at side streets and street signs. So, your headlights may or may not shine where you need them. Als, a headlight can be shined at a car online from you to get their attention. Getting their attention as they turn (to prevent them from turning) into you is a good thing.

Rechargeable lights are only issues if you don't recharge them. 10-20 years ago batteries had ****ty lifespans in terms of holding their charges. Things have changed quite a bit.

For a front light, I'm now using this. small, light, easily installable/removable without tools. I put it on the charger immediately after using it/returning home, take it off when fully charged(or the next morning/whichever) and have confidence it will hold its charge for at least two weeks. It's like showering after a ride - you just do it. With a spare set of batteries, I am set for an all-night rando ride/brevet.

As far as taillights go, another eBay search or one at dealextreme.com shows PlanetBike Superflash tailllights for under $5. I run two simultaneously and have two spares. AAA batteries last over. Again, I find it no inconvenience to use rechargeables.

As far as reflective vests go, if you don't want to use a reflective safety vest (cost, $9 @ Home Depot) like the road workers use, you can use a Sam Browne vest and reflective ankle bands.

Other possibilities include reflective safety gloves, Illuminite clothing, a safety flag, amber lights, reflective tape on the bike frame, on your helmet, on the pedals and cranks... the list of possibilities is endless. It's a question of how paranoid or safety conscious you are -- and the depth of your wallet.

Note: none of the things I linked to are the BEST options out there. I included the links primarily to illustrate what I am talking about.

PlanoFuji

Cold weather significantly reduces battery life, even the best batteries... Hot weather can significantly reduce the batteries lifespan...

A very good dynamo setup can be put together for $200-$300. I have paid just as much for good battery lights. I also use pitlocks to secure hub, and light to the bike. In my opinion, they are as secure as the bike itself when locked up. Further, nothing matches the convenience of always having light regardless of weather conditions or how long one chooses to ride.

cyccommute 

Yes and no. It depends on the battery chemistry. NiCd batteries have an operational temperature of -40C to 60 C (-40F to 140F). Li-ion batteries have an operational temperature range of -20C (-4F) to 60C. The temperature ranges are for discharge only. Charging under those conditions can lead to damage. There is some diminishment of capacity but it's not that severe.

If you follow the link that 20_700c provided, you'll find that you can buy 8 to 12 of the units that he uses for the price of a good dynamo setup. And the unit is easily removable and easily transferred from one bike to another. Dynamo units aren't easily transferred from bike to bike so you have to pay $200 to $300 per bike. That adds up quickly if, like me, you have many more than one bike that you use on a regular basis for commuting and riding.

PlanoFuji

Myself and many others have noticed diminished capacity that we deem significant. Further, a battery’s capacity decreases with age as well, they need to be treated as consumables (and hazardous waste ones at that). The point is that one needs to have sufficient battery capacity for the length of time one might ride (the max not the average), which needs to account for potential reductions in battery capacity during extreme weather and battery age. Nothing is worse then running out of light when you need it--something that is far more likely with a battery light as opposed to a dynamo light.

Yep, cheap Chinese lights can be had for much cheaper than the range I mentioned...

I don't consider dyno lights to be particularly expensive (especially considering that many spend in the range I mentioned for battery lights), nor do I think having one for each bike to be particularly troublesome. I have four bikes and three dyno setups. The only reason the fourth doesn't is because it is only used in good weather during the day. IMO, nothing makes a bike as useful a means of transportation as always having lights ready.

Juha

Umm... not necessarily. There's no need to have the light itself fixed permanently. I have dynohubs on several bikes, but a single light with plug-in connectors for wiring and QR mount on the handlebar. The light I have is a Supernova E3, and I certainly could not justify the cost of buying one of those for each bike.

eja_ bottecchia

I just bought a Light & Motion Urban 550 light to add to my Lezyne light.

Both lights are rechargeable, a big plus for me.

What sold me on the L&M were:

1. True 550 lumens rating (not over inflated);

2. I have seen others who use the Urban 550 and it is very powerful light--we ride in dark backroads and the 550 really lights the way; and

3. It is 100% made in American, in Monterey, CA.

Tonight will be its maiden ride...I am looking forward to using it on my bike.

cyccommute 

I'm not sure what you consider 'significant'. My run times seldom vary much from the 3 hours that I get out of a 2S2P 18650 Li-ion battery in all kinds of temperature ranges. If I need more time, I carry spare batteries. It's pretty simple.

Yes, batteries are a consumable and they need to be disposed of properly. However, they can be recycled to keep them out of the waste stream. Li chemistry batteries are, comparatively speaking, of a lower toxicity than cadmium chemistry batteries.

I also always have lights ready. They mount easily onto the bike and are ready to go in a moments notice. I, however, find spending $200+ per bike to be excessive. I think most people, when presented with the cost of $200 per bike vs a little inconvenience for little cost will probably choose the inconvenience over the cost. The fact that bicycle lighting is dominated by battery powered lights, and has been for a long time,
speaks to that fact.

The light is the cheap part of the system. I have 7 different bikes and would need at least 5 different wheels because of the way my bikes are configured if I wanted all of them with lights. I'd need a 26" disc compatible wheel, a 26" nondisc wheel and three 700C wheels. That's a lot of hardware to acquire. I doubt that the 26" disc wheels would be useful as well because it would be going on mountain bikes that are used off-road...not a place where dynamo "shine" all that well.

I also find a helmet light to be highly useful so I'd still need batteries for that. And I like having multiple lamp heads so that I can swap them around in the case of failure or accident. I use 3 lamps currently and have had all three fail (all 3 mounts were broken) in the past due to an accident. One, luckily, didn't fail as badly as the other two and got me home. I have had too many other incidences where some component of the lights have failed to depend on a single light source or even a single power source.

PlanoFuji

Well in my personal case, with the batteries left on a bike in an unheated garage between charges, I could get three days of riding in the Summer (all in the dark) versus somewhere between 1 and 2 in the winter. And that between was the largest annoyance, since I either had to charge every day or carry a spare battery. In my case I was using li-ion packs for a commercial light Cygolite Minty 350?

I'll take your word for the relative toxicities. While batteries should be disposed of properly, they rarely are. Instead they are dumped into the regular waste stream.

With battery lighting, the light are only ready if one remembers to charge them (and there is enough time for them to charge). With dyno lights, no such human intervention is necessary. Whether the cost for that convenience is an issue is purely a personal preference. In my personal case, since installing dyno lights I am able to take long rides (4+ hours) on my bike in the wee hours with no concern about my lights. When using battery lights I never even considered such excursions.

That bicycle lighting is dominated (in the U.S.) by battery lights is more likely a result of less demand for lights (few people ride at night) and lack of options (never seen a dyno in a local LBS) than any superiority of the technology. In places that require decent lighting with minimum standards like Germany, virtually all bikes make use of dyno lighting... Indeed they wisely require all bikes to have lights...

ItsJustMe

For shorter commutes, I'd go with a flashlight up front. Here's my fav outfit for that:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...=#post14043976

For longer commutes, I'd decide how much to spend. If < $100, I'd get a light off eBay, search for 1600 lumen bicycle headlight. Note that the batteries are not waterproof, and the beam is likely to be too tight (too spotty) - ebay search for "magicshine lens" - I use that lens on a $35 ebay light and it works quite well all winter.

If you want to spend more money, go for name brands.

If you get a magicshine sort of headlight, you can use the MagicShine taillight which runs off the same battery pack as the headlight, so that's nice.

For self-contained taillights, the Cygolite Hotshot is pretty nice. The Serfas Shield is my favorite but it's expensive.

Since I personally insist on having two front and two rear lights (the rear ones both on because I won't know if one goes out, the front one in reserve) IMO you'd do well to buy something like the flashlight and a Cygolite at first and see how it goes for you. If you decide to go for something bigger or name brand, you will have the flashlight as a backup in case you forget to charge a battery or something flakes on you.

Athens80

The Continental Grand Prix 4000 tire is available in a 700x25 black model with reflective side walls. You'll need new tires at some point, the GP 4000 has its fans, 25mm tires have their fans, and the reflective tires increase cyclists' visibility to traffic approaching from the side. They're available somewhere at ~$40 per tire.

cyccommute 

Therein lies the problem. It's not the batteries' fault but user error. People don't know how to treat batteries and, thus, damage them through neglect. Then they blame the equipment. I'll agree that there is a little more effort to dealing with batteries but it's not that onerous...unless you treat them badly. In your case, leaving them in an unheated garage is the problem, not the cold.

I charge and store my batteries in my basement. They are kept at a pretty constant temperature of around 68F (20C). When I put them on the bike in the cold, cold morning...far colder than your winter temperatures with an average temperature in January of 16F vs Plano's wonderfully balmy 34F...the battery starts at it's optimal temperature and drops in the course of a ride. At work my bike is stored inside and even if it weren't, I store the batteries inside. I get the pretty close to the same number of hours per ride winter and summer.

I would disagree. People do a pretty good job of recycling batteries. Maybe not alkalizes but rechargables are generally treated differently.

You may want to revisit the demand for lights in the US. There are lots and lots of people riding at night where I live and the Bike Forums has a whole forum devoted to lights. That says there is lots of demand for lights to me. ASHTO regulations require lights for night bicycle riding and ASHTO is used for all state traffic laws. If you check Texas laws on bicycles, you'll find similar wording that you'll find in all other states with requirements for front light at night that can be seen from 500 feet, side reflectors (at all times) that can be seen from 500 feet and a rear reflector (at all times) that can be seen from 500 feet.

Battery lights are dominate in the US because of mountain bike demand. There's a lot of spill over of that demand into commuting but mountain bike usage drives the market here.

PlanoFuji

I don't consider leaving the batteries on the bike to be mistreating them or user error. I want my bikes to be ready to ride without the need to gather equipment to do so. I don't want equipment that needs to be coddled to perform to specs. I charge the batteries (well charged since I don't use battery lights anymore) in air conditioned space. Further, it is clearly the cold that is causing the problem since the battery charge level is much better in the summer when the bike is stored in the same unheated (well un-air conditioned) garage (which approaches 115 deg in summer).

First, BF members are hardly typical for US cyclists. Second while state laws require lights, very few of the cyclists I encounter (in NM, AZ, TX, or FL) have lights on their bikes. Most don't even have reflectors. This includes those whom I encounter while riding at night (a small percentage). Battery lights are popular for several reason; availability (most LBS simply don't stock dyno lighting), expense (battery lights are much cheaper), most cyclists don't need lights all that often in the U.S. Finally, while mountain bikes are the most popular in the U.S. I doubt very many of those purchased ever get used on single track, much less at night. Kind of like SUV's are the most popular car type but few ever leave pavement.

Look, you clearly prefer battery lights. Fine. I will conceed that battery lights have two principal advantages over dyno lighting. Expense. Cheap chinese lights can be had for $20-$30. And output. Dyno lights are limited by the power the user can provide. A max of about 10W, which is a little misleading since the dynos produce a constant current (relatively) so powering lights (led lights) require use of more sophisticated power conversions to tap that upper limit of power and that upper limit is probably beyond the power output a typical cyclist can produce on a bike (150-200W) on a routine basis. Battery lights can draw much more power from battery packs than is available from a dyno, with the only issue being longevity and size. Of course a significant amount of the additional output is wasted because battery lights tend to use cheap conical optics (even very expensive battery lights) and therefore much of the light is illuminating the sky (up to about 40% if light positioned properly).

Dyno lights are a valid option, not for those who spend $20-$50 on cheap chinese lights and happy with them, but those who spend $200+ on quality battery lights.


Not in my experience. Nor do I see how/why people would treat them differently since the proper disposal method is the same in most places.

"As Americans, we throw away about 180,000 tons of batteries per year." - https://www.mnn.com/lifestyle/recycli...-old-batteries

trekmogul 

Lighting boils down to one thing..Cost.. How much are you willing to drop on lighting..? Plain and Simple.. I myself use Lupine Battery Lamps and just bought the new Betty R14 4500 Lumen Kit. There is a gazillion choices and i am sure you cant go wrong..I suggest buying the best you can afford..and yes you usually get what you pay for..

cyccommute 

You may not consider leaving the batteries on the bike as mistreating them and you are not in the minority with respect to that issue but you would be wrong in thinking that. Most people think of batteries as...well...they don't think about them at all. That's what kills them. If anything, you diminished capacity was due more to the 115 F heat than the winter cold. The damage is cumulative and heat shortens Li-ion batteries quicker than cold does.

I don't think you'll find too many people even on the Bike Forums that use dynamo lights. You guys are a minority...perhaps a little more vocal about it...but a minority nevertheless.

And you would be wrong about mountain bikes use off-road.

There's a couple of fallacies here. Let's start with the "spraying light into the sky" fallacy. The nice thing about light is that you can, for the most part, see where it is going. Conical beam lights on bikes may spread the beam around a little but, for the most part, the conical part of the lens is pretty small. Small cones tend to not have much spread. If you ride under something, you can see exactly where your beam is going. As long as my lights are aimed a couple of car lengths ahead of me, the amount of spill upward isn't all the great. My lights have a spread of 10 feet or less...remember I can see where the light goes...and given that about 2/3 of the lamp is aimed downwards that's not much sky illumination. If the beams are aimed more distantly, the light is pretty useless for actually seeing the road and then is just a brick that you carry along for training purposes.

A second fallacy is that somehow "quality" equals more money. I've been running the "cheap Chinese lights" for about 4 to 5 years now. I've had 4 Magic Shines and 3 cheap Chinese knockoff that replaced the Magic Shines. I've had a single switch failure in all that time and that was easily rectified. The lights may be cheap but there's not a lot that can go wrong with them and they stand up to use. That's the reason that I advocate that people use them. At $25 per unit, even if there were a 75% failure rate, that's still cheaper than the so called "quality" lights. And I can have several multiples of lamps if I wish. And when something better comes along...greater output, better battery, better optics, etc... I feel a whole lot less pain in ditching lights than I would with the higher priced lights.

And, at $25, the light is far better than the light you can get for the same price (or more) in "be seen" lights.


You need to read a little further. "Of that number, 14,000 tons are rechargeable." The vast majority of batteries that are disposed of are alkaline batteries. An alkaline battery is a zinc/manganese dioxide battery with a potassium hydroxide electrolyte. None of those components are dangerous or toxic. Manganese dioxide is the dark black stain you see on desert sandstone where the water runs. Zinc is the material used to galvanize steel and potassium hydroxide would be formed when you wet campfire ash. Not exactly the worst things you can run across.

PlanoFuji

This will be my last post on this subject, since you clearly feel the need to justify your preferences by falsely claiming some objective reason.

Any product that is designed to be used on an outdoor product should not require constant removal and storage indoors. So, no I (and most users as you admit) are not wrong. That is a weakness of the design.

True, most of the members of BF are U.S. citizens and don't ride at night often, and can't justify the costs that the advantages a dyno setup provide or even the costs associated with a quality battery lighting system. Ask most German cyclists about what they use, where all bikes are required to have lights at all times? Also a fairly recent survey of raddoneurs (folks who ride routinely at night for long distances) in Bike Quarterly indicated that the choice of lighting was about evenly split between dyno and battery systems.

Doubtful. Indeed the 'style' of the mountain bike was so popular while the need was so small that a whole new category was created, the hybrid just to give the form to those who wanted it but didn't need it.

Fallacy? You really don't know what your talking about. The conical light shape of nearly all battery lighting has a bright center spot. If that center spot is placed correctly so that its furthest point is just at or below the horizon then approximately 40% of the light output from the light is illuminating the area above the horizon. That is physics. If light is positioned so that the entire spot of light is on the ground, the brightest area occurs not nearest to you (good for slow riding) and not furthest from you (good for fast riding) but in between... So good for neither of the likely needed conditions, and particularly bad for fast riding since the intervening bright spot prevents discerning details in the darker areas at a distance. On the other hand nearly all dyno lights use much more sophisticated optics so that either the nearest or furthest can be properly illuminated, and at least one has adjusting optics that change the light pattern as your speed changes.

Fallacy? Hardly. Evident to anyone who has compared cheap products and more expensive ones. There is a world of quality difference between the Magic Shine (and its Chinese competitors) and better quality (and more expensive) lights. Speaking of the Magic Shine directly. They have a history of problems with the quality (and reliability) of the batteries and their connections. Indeed they had a massive recall not to long ago. I even believe you have mentioned that you use a different battery pack in part because of those 'issues'.

Clearly you understand that the quality is less for those cheaper lights (so not a fallacy) since your final statements in that paragraph boil down to they cost much less... That may be your most important criteria, but that isn't necessarily the case for others.

The relative size of the waste between disposable and rechargable is irrelevant, particularly since the quote and reference was to refute your claim that batteries are dumped (regardless of type) in the traditional waste stream. The process for proper disposal is the same for both types in most communities in the U.S. A relatively cumbersome process that means most folks throw out their discarded batteries in the trash. Which is why I stated that dyno's have a eco advantage over battery based lighting. Your hoop jumps not withstanding, the point is clear and factual.



Unlike you I do not feel the need to claim my preference is objectively superior. A variety of factors should be judged individually to determine which style of light is chosen; however, unlike you I recognize that each style has its strengths and weaknesses. All of which should be evaluated before making such a choice.

ItsJustMe

I leave my lights on the bike all winter, down to zero F and below, and they're still fine after years of use.

Looigi

Wow. I had no idea bicycle lighting was such a volatile subject.

Anywho...I use two Li-ion lights, one on steady to see and the other on flash for conspicuity. If the steady light battery starts getting low, I switch the roles between the two lights. This gives me plenty of run time and redundancy as well. It's also very easy to switch among bikes. For MTB, I put one on the bars and one the helmet and set intensities as appropriate for the current conditions.

Agree many dispose of batteries improperly, but that's pretty much irrelevant to your choice of power source because you're free to do whatever you think is appropriate with them.

10 Wheels

I charge my battery's every night....no big deal.

PlanoFuji

Not really, even if properly recycled all batteries contribute some of their content to the waste stream. Dyno lighting contain no such consumable commodities so they are a greener choice than even reusable based battery lights for those that are concerned about such things.

mrbubbles

There are two crowds that are firmly entrenched in their preferences, the battery crowd and the dynamo crowd. The battery crowd usually haven't tried a dynamo setup, or a decent dynamo setup, because of cost and availability constraints. The dynamo crowd usually have tried the battery setup, they either stick with dynamo, go back and forth to battery, and very few dump dynamo and go straight to battery.

I'm in the dynamo light crowd, and I have battery setups. All the mode switching you do (1), all the battery charging to do, and all the light swapping you when you switch from bike to bike, and the worrying about battery life, dynamo folks don't need to do that, that one time $200-$300 (the $400-500 schmidt setup is completely overrated) investment is all they need when they build up the bike, and that last a very long time. (And when you're spending $2000-3000 plus on a bike, an extra $200 isn't much)

(1) I do have mode switching on my dynamo setup, I do it to adjust brightness, not to conserve battery life.

10 Wheels

How bright are The Strobe Modes on the dynamos?

mrbubbles

There are no strobe modes on dynamo. And strobe mode on a 500+ lumen setup is dangerous.